Pick Your Team Cowboys v Warriors - Round 14, 2024 PICK YOUR TEAM

[Inruin]

This post really caught my attention so I looked up the match
Roger was at centre against St George rather than Pompey

We also had a lame bench against St George
The poster above has named a bench of
14 Walker
15 Jazz
16 Marata
17 CHT

That day against St George our bench was appalling with only two forwards

14 Tom Ale
15 Laban
16 Pompey
17 Roache

And check out how many minutes that bench got.

 

[Beastmode]

This post really caught my attention so I looked up the match
Roger was at centre against St George rather than Pompey

We also had a lame bench against St George
The poster above has named a bench of
14 Walker
15 Jazz
16 Marata
17 CHT

That day against St George our bench was appalling with only two forwards

14 Tom Ale
15 Laban
16 Pompey
17 Roache

Good spot

I was too focused on that threeo pack of Tohu, Ford and Capewell

Those three aren’t scaring anyone close to the line

Let’s hope Webby makes FULL use of the bench

Caveat calling this bench appalling is a little insulting …

14 Tom Ale
15 Laban
16 Pompey
17 Roache

 

[Wrighty]

Good spot

I was too focused on that threeo pack of Tohu, Ford and Capewell

Those three aren’t scaring anyone close to the line

Let’s hope Webby makes FULL use of the bench

Caveat calling this bench appalling is a little insulting …

14 Tom Ale
15 Laban
16 Pompey
17 Roache

Not insulting when you consider I was commenting on the composition of the number of forwards vs backs rather than the players.

 

[Juno]

Totally agree on SJ’s nothing kicks to the corner - those little high balls for no one when he could have grubbered diagonally towards the goal posts for the repeat set

I don’t put this all on SJ as it would have been agreed and endorsed by Webby to play conservative and then grind out an error from the opposing team

Hoping a more expansive approach is taken in the next game when the old fellas are back

It worked last year as practised and honed tactic. It was to chase and pin the oppo down to start their sets from practically the tryline and get the position advantage for our set starts. It worked a treat.
The same tactics were not going to work so well this season because the oppo were expecting it, smothered sj so he couldn't do it. Was too predictable.
Agree it needed changed up and think it would've been except for a dire run of short turnarrounds and injuries.
The younguns have shown what ennthusiasm, unpredictability, and chancing your arm a bit can do, coupled with a fit forward pack. Is that enough? Is it sustainable? Probably not entirely, but as some have said a bar has been set for the needed change up.
We got the forwards rotation right last year for 90% of the season because with the game plan it needed more attack and more defence at times within the game and thats what happened.
Just for that reason alone we need experience on the field to lead both.
I see Roosters employing our tactics this year (not their grubbiness part) but hit hard at the beginning then defend in the middle part then bring it on to finish.
We sometimes did it the other way
last year - hold them out then attack when they tired. Its no- brainer tactics if you've got the cattle & the bench rotation right to do it, either way. Its a game of 4 quarters not 2 halves in that respect.
Hope we get the right combinations of cattle so we can sustain that at the higher level.
Exciting times...

 

[CWC]

The SJ bomb to right Berry chase from 40m was fine if we only made it to halfway/40m, or when we are trying to close out a 2-score lead

We were in trouble this year because they kept giving away penalties for piggybacks, and when we drop our ball in our half we leak tries

I said it in the slump period that as crap as we were playing we were actually still getting so many chances in the redzone, and that execution was way off

We've seen them tidying up the penalties and errors, and even when Jazz copped a "knock on" (2-men strip) the boys went up to him and encouraged him so much, unlike a few weeks ago Jazz and SJ etc were spraying other players, you can see a total change of mentality and positivity right now

I don't know if it's a player thing or coach thing, but our D and effort from inside players to slide across was so good to watch in the Dolphins game, I saw CHT and MGT rushing over, posters might see other stuff too, something has changed and our goal line D is back

The execution in the redzone have been insanely good since the 2nd half of the Penrith game, so whatever it is, Webby needs to maintain with the senior players coming back, the bench mark is right there now, team culture, positivity and execution

 

[Kav1]

Haha bro...SJ is leading the comp with 13 forced drop outs this year despite missing the last 2 games.
I can't find stats for everyone last year but he had 22, which would be in the top 5.

Also TMM had 2 of the forced drop outs and CHT the other one on the weekend

I stand corrected.

 

[watcher]

It would take a long time to work out an odd combination like Charnze and Te Maire. It would take a while to work out TMM and CHT, but not as long as an odd ball selection like CNK and TMM.

Mostly because the CNK TMM combination does not know what it is going to do either (in a good way, CNK is not a trained classical pianist, he is a music by ear Jazz musician, chucked on a Steinway and told just jam some chords the band will follow).

When Webster threw those two together he knew what he was doing. It was the most radical spine move any Warriors coach has ever made in our history, hell....CNK ain't even a ball player...he just runs and runs....and TMM ain't a game organizer....neither of them are kickers, so what the bloody hell was Webster even thinking throwing those two against the Panthers?

TMM said in the post match that Webster had a plan, he made the plan very simple, and they trained it all week. TMM also said the plan had tricks in it from Websters Panther days.

You could see what Webster did when you watch enough replays.

Webster took the Panthers Kryptonite that the Eels invented (the Eels have been beating up on the Penrith Juggernaut using second phase non stop eyes up football with constant ball promotion to kill the cheating pushing sideways in the tackle by the Panthers gang tacklers).

Well actually the Eels did not invent that style, the Auckland Warriors did. You heard me right, the Auckland team, not the NZ Warriors. And even they did not invent it Per Se. The NZ Kiwis invented that style of play before the Warriors existed - then the Auckland Vulcans were renowned for it - then the Auckland Warriors....and eventually the Winfield cup caught on and called it Jungle ball.

Excuse me everyone for the history lesson but the evolution of second phase in Rugby league is a pet topic, because it was invented here and has for a very long time been acknowledged by British League callers and Australians alike as NZ Rugby league style, it is a uniquely Polynesian style of play first made famous by NZ Maori sides in both Rugby codes.

The Dragons adapted it and used it against the Warriors, which is why for a pretty shit club they hold our worst record against.

The same second phase game famously defeated the Storm when the Warriors employed it for endless upsets (getting to my point now) because second phase upsets structure.

Penrith hate it for the same reason the Storm hate it.

They are both structured highly coached sides, with strangling type methods of making a kill, which includes mirco management and skills training focused on cheating the rules around the play the ball.

In other words they are highly technical teams. Which means as we became polished and structured under Webster, our predictability became a double edged sword. It is like the new kid trying to beat the champ by copying the Champs boxing style in one pre fight camp.

Which is why people like a half like Metcalf, for variation, to threaten the boring ass strangle wall of your typical top four NRL teams.

Hell we have seen the likes of Melcalf before, the calls for his Xfactor are a stuck record around here....we put a 'Metcalf type' on steroids at the head of our campaigns for years....the young 'Shaun what is he going to do next Johnson'.

And here we are still title less.

Which is why I believe the answer is this:

To win the NRL the Warriors need to master and stick to the Australian Rugby league highly structured template, the same one the Kiwis have evolved into, shelving their historic roots in jungle ball, without completely abandoning them, park it down the list of priorities as a tool to be used come the time, not as a model for how to win the NRL.

And the Warriors need to ignore the fans of 2024 around that style being too readable.

I say the opposite, I say now that it is being challenged, get better at it.

And if that structured game plan is not working, then define what 'not working' means...break it down, because if we are playing ultra structure and being shut down on attack, while still achieving the other metrics of Webster ball (when we play Webster ball well, we are camped in the opponents end and they rarely see ball in ours) then and only then, should we should be talking about the problems with scoring, as an after fact, as a secondary lesser problem to our winning defensive template, that needs minor adjustments and variation.

In a game where the scoreline is 12 nil or less come the 80th minute we should be satisfied win or lose, we should appreciate the field position from Webster ball before demanding change. Rather than throw out the plan, lets imagine low scoring games where we only need to find 13+ to make top four and win titles. To me that is the secret. It always been the secret. The Warriors will win the NRL when they can emulate the Kiwis and play in 12 point games.

Try tell me that if we become a 12 nil or less defensive shut out side, that this is the wrong platform to aim for? Heck no! it ain't! Surely with the kind of territorial dominance we have been enjoying in games (especially when we lose) surely the Warriors have a platform to engineer a couple of tweaks to score more than twice in an NRL game.

This is why I say don't chuck the model away when we are losing. Only small adjustments needed.

Much better I say than trying to find more Xfactor and all these other meaningless un measurable, inconsistent ideas about how we should be playing.

Great stuff, I have a theory in Union when I coached, and I think the same applies to League. 2nd phase and counter attack are just names for backing up the ball carrier and getting into good positions of support.

 

[BabylonPink]

The SJ bomb to right Berry chase from 40m was fine if we only made it to halfway/40m, or when we are trying to close out a 2-score lead

We were in trouble this year because they kept giving away penalties for piggybacks, and when we drop our ball in our half we leak tries

I said it in the slump period that as crap as we were playing we were actually still getting so many chances in the redzone, and that execution was way off

We've seen them tidying up the penalties and errors, and even when Jazz copped a "knock on" (2-men strip) the boys went up to him and encouraged him so much, unlike a few weeks ago Jazz and SJ etc were spraying other players, you can see a total change of mentality and positivity right now

I don't know if it's a player thing or coach thing, but our D and effort from inside players to slide across was so good to watch in the Dolphins game, I saw CHT and MGT rushing over, posters might see other stuff too, something has changed and our goal line D is back

The execution in the redzone have been insanely good since the 2nd half of the Penrith game, so whatever it is, Webby needs to maintain with the senior players coming back, the bench mark is right there now, team culture, positivity and execution

Could be the mobility Dwalkz gives us in the middle?
TMM and CHT are very strong defenders also.

 

[Teets]

Tried to pick a team but fuck me it's tough.

There's going to be some guys missing out that probably have the right to feel unlucky if they're not there.

how are people still not putting Marata on an edge, he is a legitimate difference maker

Agree. He played all his minutes at right edge on Sunday despite the listed positions and made a massive difference.

Ford played all of the minutes Niukore was on the field at prop and went to right edge only while Marata was resting on the bench.

Barney played left edge only moved into middle when Laban came on.

So I wouldn't even be surprised to see Jacko playing middle again to start next weekend as well. He was immense in there defensively, his lateral movement to tie in was huge. Though knowing Webby he'll still name him at edge again.

 

[Teets]

Could be the mobility Dwalkz gives us in the middle?
TMM and CHT are very strong defenders also.

I had similar thoughts.

We had our two strongest defensive halfs, hitmen in Barney and Marata on the edges, and a bunch of springy mobile defenders in the middle.

The pieces fit together really nicely defensively.

The line speed and ability to chase out from our middles meant the edges weren't having to deal with as much problems as I thought they would going in.

 

[Boats n Hoes]

Haha bro...SJ is leading the comp with 13 forced drop outs this year despite missing the last 2 games.
I can't find stats for everyone last year but he had 22, which would be in the top 5.

Also TMM had 2 of the forced drop outs and CHT the other one on the weekend

C'mon bro.....dont spoil the narrative

 

[Boats n Hoes]

Tried to pick a team but fuck me it's tough.

There's going to be some guys missing out that probably have the right to feel unlucky if they're not there.




Agree. He played all his minutes at right edge on Sunday despite the listed positions and made a massive difference.

Ford played all of the minutes Niukore was on the field at prop and went to right edge only while Marata was resting on the bench.

Barney played left edge only moved into middle when Laban came on.

So I wouldn't even be surprised to see Jacko playing middle again to start next weekend as well. He was immense in there defensively, his lateral movement to tie in was huge. Though knowing Webby he'll still name him at edge again.

I think Niukore out wide highlighted the lack of strike we've had on the edges all year and the lead on effect to our attack.. Its not just having someone capable of breaking tackles out wide but someone capable of shortening the defensive line creating space. Neither Ford or (especially Capewell) have that in their game.

No coincidence it was Fords best game playing mostly middle third. His skillset suits it more than trying to be creative out on an edge. He's a whole hearted effort player with a massive engine....tailor made for the middle i reckon.

Not sure if its just cause he's had to with the ongoing injury crisis, but its nice seeing Webby more open to changing things up rather than sticking hard and fast with pre-conceived ideas...particulary positional based......i'e "Niukore will be playing middle this year"....."Charnze is 100% our fullback"......in the end you have to be adaptable to whatever is going to suit the team the best,

 

[Muddogz]

Niukore was a big part of that right edge last year terrorizing the half on that side. Capewell just doesn’t offer the same physical threat.

Pompey is a traditional centre so easier for a half to work with than RTS who tries to finesse his way through the defence.

I’m not sure either big buy has paid off the season.

 

[watcher]

A few due back for the Cows. I would bet there are positions up for grabs but not as many as people might think. O would go eith the following.

Tuaupiki
DWZ
Berry
PompeY
Montoya
SJ
TMM
WAlker
Niukore
Ford
Harris
Egan
AFB

CHT
Ale
Afoa
Laban

 

[Canadian_Warriors_Fan]

A few due back for the Cows. I would bet there are positions up for grabs but not as many as people might think. O would go eith the following.

Tuaupiki
DWZ
Berry
PompeY
Montoya
SJ
TMM
WAlker
Niukore
Ford
Harris
Egan
AFB

CHT
Ale
Afoa
Laban

No CNK?

 

[John Nick]

Just listened to 360 and the comments around positional changes .
We were shit with TMM at 6.
Injuries means he goes to 7 and we have 2 great wins.
Now we have posters wanting him back at 6.
WTF

 

[Beastmode]

Just listened to 360 and the comments around positional changes .
We were shit with TMM at 6.
Injuries means he goes to 7 and we have 2 great wins.
Now we have posters wanting him back at 6.
WTF

TMM is an SJ clone
Just like Capwell to Ford

 

[Makasene]

I think Niukore out wide highlighted the lack of strike we've had on the edges all year and the lead on effect to our attack.. Its not just having someone capable of breaking tackles out wide but someone capable of shortening the defensive line creating space. Neither Ford or (especially Capewell) have that in their game.

No coincidence it was Fords best game playing mostly middle third. His skillset suits it more than trying to be creative out on an edge. He's a whole hearted effort player with a massive engine....tailor made for the middle i reckon.

Not sure if its just cause he's had to with the ongoing injury crisis, but its nice seeing Webby more open to changing things up rather than sticking hard and fast with pre-conceived ideas...particulary positional based......i'e "Niukore will be playing middle this year"....."Charnze is 100% our fullback"......in the end you have to be adaptable to whatever is going to suit the team the best,

This strategy started the week prior with AFB playing wide (at 12) in the red zone.

So, they went there again with Marata and results were pretty obvious.

There are many selection decisions but I think only two will keep coach up at night - Tohu & Capewell - There is not room for both in my best 17, barely room for 1....

 

[Makasene]

TMM is an SJ clone
Just like Capwell to Ford

Would it work to pick SJ at 6?

TMM leads the team and SJ with his experience overcalls when he wants it.

Problem is we've tried it before, it just never quite seems to work - SJ is either all or nothing which is risky, when it's on it's amazing but when it's off you simply don't win (Watch him v Titans in the final 10mins on ANZAC day).

 

[Commonsense]

He's been given the reigns at 7 and killed it.

CHT in 2 opportunities has killed it at 6.

TMM in majority of his games at 6 is invisible.

Something has to give...

I'm not in favour of having TMM on the bench.

I think he has probably earned a move back to 6 with SJs return but with a caveat that he has to find a way to be involved.

At the same time, if CHT were named at 6 to face the Cows I would be stoked.

CHT was solid but didn't do much beyond that, certainly not enough to be ahead of TMM