Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[MrFrankWhite]

Anyone who focuses on the treaty as the way to the future is stuffed before they even start. The treaty is Stockholm’s syndrome on paper.

When university professors get overseas trip based on being māori, when they are smarter and better paid than most of us, there is no leg up, just racism and division.

Entitlement. "I deserve X because Y"

Its 2024, you deserve nothing but what you earn with your two hands.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Watching the NDIS, the aged pension, and the Centrelink debate in Australia is mind blowing. The default position is becoming the money is "deserved".

 

[Cces]

How do we reckon David Seymour will react when the man who was ACTing up with kids losses his name suppression?
It'll be a stern test of his leadership

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

How do we reckon David Seymour will react when the man who was ACTing up with kids losses his name suppression?
It'll be a stern test of his leadership

Wasn’t even an MP, even though high up in the party. Doesn’t have public name recognition, although the left will suddenly paint him as super important…

Our elected MP’s are 10x as accountable to the public as unelected behind the scenes party hacks.

In saying that, it will be interesting seeing Seymour under pressure!

 

[Garry Saloon]

You have mistaken me for TMP.

I noticed the Seymour sympathisers/antiTPM people never bring any evidence for their "interpretation" of Te Tiriti.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

I noticed the Seymour sympathisers/antiTPM people never bring any evidence for their "interpretation" of Te Tiriti.

Serious question - how would life be any different it there was no treaty, as other countries have.

I have no position, just interested in how the Treaty has made Nz better?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Serious question - how would life be any different it there was no treaty, as other countries have.

I have no position, just interested in how the Treaty has made Nz better?

To give background I believe support should be based needs eg socio economic factors. Your poor and in need from a dysfunctional household, it doesn’t matter about what race you are.

There are māori that are thriving and dont need any support and white people in more desperate need than the average māori. Needs based.

Some in the left call for means testing of super. Isn’t assuming all māori need extra support similarly untargeted and denies more for those that need it most?

Isn’t saying all māori need extra support, just because they are māori, labelling with similar racist thinking like saying all māori are dole bludgers?

 

[Garry Saloon]

Serious question - how would life be any different it there was no treaty, as other countries have.

I have no position, just interested in how the Treaty has made Nz better?

It doesn't need to be defended on those terms. It's what was agreed. Seymour's argument is an argument for why we SHOULDN'T WANT the Treaty as was agreed. That's fine, but for a treaty to be abolished or changed both parties have to agree. Māori will not agree to that.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

It doesn't need to be defended on those terms. It's what was agreed. Seymour's argument is an argument for why we SHOULDN'T WANT the Treaty as was agreed. That's fine, but for a treaty to be abolished or changed both parties have to agree. Māori will not agree to that.

I believe generally everyone’s equal and believe the treaty is holding māori back. I believe there is huge support for removing race based policy and I think in long term they actually hurt māori.

But I don’t actually support ACts amendments as it’s to divisive. Any progress needs to be māori led.

On the flip side I don’t believe in reinterpreting the treaty as has recently been done in todays context either.

 

[marv.]

It doesn't need to be defended on those terms. It's what was agreed. Seymour's argument is an argument for why we SHOULDN'T WANT the Treaty as was agreed. That's fine, but for a treaty to be abolished or changed both parties have to agree. Māori will not agree to that.

māori won’t get to agree or disagree with it anyway.
the prime minister has said repeatedly he will not support it past the agreed upon first reading.

so what is it you’re upset about?

wasted tax payer dollars?
weasley little seymour getting airtime?
rawiri waititi calling for all māori to ‘activate’ telling them they’re genetically superior and being all round inflammatory, all the while knowing it’s a non event?

also, it’s weird having the same conversation with you on these three new accounts that are the only ones that agree with you. please just stick to your original MT8 account. makes life so much easier.

 

[Noitall]

Serious question - how would life be any different it there was no treaty, as other countries have.

I have no position, just interested in how the Treaty has made Nz better?

I think it’s a recognition of past injustices

 

[Garry Saloon]

māori won’t get to agree or disagree with it anyway.
the prime minister has said repeatedly he will not support it past the agreed upon first reading.

so what is it you’re upset about?

wasted tax payer dollars?
weasley little seymour getting airtime?
rawiri waititi calling for all māori to ‘activate’ telling them they’re genetically superior and being all round inflammatory, all the while knowing it’s a non event?

also, it’s weird having the same conversation with you on these three new accounts that are the only ones that agree with you. please just stick to your original MT8 account. makes life so much easier.

Conspiracy theory fail man. Just the one account.

 

[Garry Saloon]

I believe generally everyone’s equal and believe the treaty is holding māori back. I believe there is huge support for removing race based policy and I think in long term they actually hurt māori.

But I don’t actually support ACts amendments as it’s to divisive. Any progress needs to be māori led.

On the flip side I don’t believe in reinterpreting the treaty as has recently been done in todays context either.

So you'd prefer to abandon the principles ( a compromise) and take the treaty as written, i.e māori retain sovereignty?

 

[MaybeTop8]

Anyone who focuses on the treaty as the way to the future is stuffed before they even start. The treaty is Stockholm’s syndrome on paper.

When university professors get overseas trip based on being māori, when they are smarter and better paid than most of us, there is no leg up, just racism and division.

All the gibberish out in force this morning

Rewriting history, as ACT is trying to do. The thing is, while you lot blather on about one nation for all, (the catch cry of the racist btw) what's the real agenda? How about the backers of ACT (and National) looking to remove the restraints and protections the treaty offers so they can extract more wealth and resource for great profit, and great damage to our society.

How about removing hard won gains and creating an even greater divide, highlighting a two and even three tier society and enriching the already privileged and wealthy.

Because that's really what this is all about.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Serious question - how would life be any different it there was no treaty, as other countries have.

I have no position, just interested in how the Treaty has made Nz better?

Seriously, you have a position.

 

[juju]

I noticed the Seymour sympathisers/antiTPM people never bring any evidence for their "interpretation" of Te Tiriti.

Just laughing emoji's

 

[juju]

māori won’t get to agree or disagree with it anyway.
the prime minister has said repeatedly he will not support it past the agreed upon first reading.

so what is it you’re upset about?

wasted tax payer dollars?
weasley little seymour getting airtime?
rawiri waititi calling for all māori to ‘activate’ telling them they’re genetically superior and being all round inflammatory, all the while knowing it’s a non event?

also, it’s weird having the same conversation with you on these three new accounts that are the only ones that agree with you. please just stick to your original MT8 account. makes life so much easier.

The conjecture comes because Seymour didnt engage with māori or anyone qualified on this issue in shaping the bill.
māori are a treaty PARTNER. It seems to be a rather large party of the equation people in this thread can't wrap their heads around.

Theres also the matter of the influence donors have with the Act Party and who is behind this (Hobson's Pledge and yes... The Atlas Network)

Also seeing how weak Luxon leadership has been allowing his coalition partners to walk all over him & how the proposal has been shifting is it really dead.

 

[MaybeTop8]

The conjecture comes because Seymour didnt engage with māori or anyone qualified on this issue in shaping the bill.
māori are a treaty PARTNER. It seems to be a rather large party of the equation people in this thread can't wrap their heads around.

Theres also the matter of the influence donors have with the Act Party and who is behind this (Hobson's Pledge and yes... The Atlas Network)

Also seeing how weak Luxon leadership has been allowing his coalition partners to walk all over him & how the proposal has been shifting is it really dead.

I have a suspicion as well that National are quite happy for the policies of ACT to go through, and for ACT to take the heat

 

[MaybeTop8]

 

[juju]

I have a suspicion as well that National are quite happy for the policies of ACT to go through, and for ACT to take the heat

It's either that... Or poor leadership.