Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[juju]

I have a suspicion as well that National are quite happy for the policies of ACT to go through, and for ACT to take the heat

It's either that... Or poor leadership.

 

[defensivebomb]

How do we reckon David Seymour will react when the man who was ACTing up with kids losses his name suppression?
It'll be a stern test of his leadership

Hopefully he will throw him to the wolves

 

[marv.]

The conjecture comes because Seymour didnt engage with Maori or anyone qualified on this issue in shaping the bill.
Maori are a treaty PARTNER. It seems to be a rather large party of the equation people in this thread can't wrap their heads around.

Theres also the matter of the influence donors have with the Act Party and who is behind this (Hobson's Pledge and yes... The Atlas Network)

Also seeing how weak Luxon leadership has been allowing his coalition partners to walk all over him & how the proposal has been shifting is it really dead.

so mostly that’s all irrelevant if it doesn’t pass the first reading?
i think there will be a lot of talking heads struggling for relevance when they find how little they have to talk about once it doesn’t go any further.

 

[Inruin]

so mostly that’s all irrelevant if it doesn’t pass the first reading?
i think there will be a lot of talking heads struggling for relevance when they find how little they have to talk about once it doesn’t go any further.

It's quite brilliant by Luxon really. Yes we will support you through to the first reading but no further, as a compromise to form a coalition government. Many were saying this coalition would fall apart in the first 6-12 'months with Luxon unable to keep them all together, yet there doesn't seem to be any signs of that under his leadership. People also making a lot of noise about Seymour's Treaty proposal without considering that having it not supported past it's first reading actually strengthens it's current position. This debate and discussion should be welcomed in my opinion.

 

[juju]

so mostly that’s all irrelevant if it doesn’t pass the first reading?
i think there will be a lot of talking heads struggling for relevance when they find how little they have to talk about once it doesn’t go any further.

It's relevant even if it fails as it has shown how poor knowledge on the topic is and how deep the vein of racism is to the treaty partners.

A proposed wealth tax or capital gains tax being proposed by the opposition causes bigger hernias in this thread.

Yet a bill by a party thats just the face of lobby groups - going to a truncated select committee under weak leader ship and shifting goal post is no big deal.

 

[juju]

It's quite brilliant by Luxon really. Yes we will support you through to the first reading but no further, as a compromise to form a coalition government. Many were saying this coalition would fall apart in the first 6-12 'months with Luxon unable to keep them all together, yet there doesn't seem to be any signs of that under his leadership. People also making a lot of noise about Seymour's Treaty proposal without considering that having it not supported past it's first reading actually strengthens it's current position. This debate and discussion should be welcomed in my opinion.

Really? Lol. - don't you think a good leader would say it's not what the country needs and let's fix the real issues with the country.
Instead we get this and the tabacco industry writing government policy.

The delusion is strong

 

[Inruin]

Really? Lol. - don't you think a good leader would say it's not what the country needs and let's fix the real issues with the country.
Instead we get this and the tabacco industry writing government policy.

The delusion is strong

Just because you don't like him or agree with him doesn't make him a poor leader.

You mentioned wealth and capital gains taxes suggested by the opposition in a post just previously. The same thing they stepped away from while in power with no coalition partners holding them back and forced their own Revenue Minister to resign because of it. Now that is weak leadership.

You are right about one thing, the delusion is strong.

 

[marv.]

It's relevant even if it fails as it has shown how poor knowledge on the topic is and how deep the vein of racism is to the treaty partners.

A proposed wealth tax or capital gains tax being proposed by the opposition causes bigger hernias in this thread.

Yet a bill by a party thats just the face of lobby groups - going to a truncated select committee under weak leader ship and shifting goal post is no big deal.

no, i didn’t say it’s no big deal.

seymour has always been a cock. now is no different, why are we all of a sudden upset about it?
if/when it goes no further than the first reading as the PM keeps saying. what relevance will any of it have had?
nothing will be any different.

i think most of the people out there stuck on the issue might find themselves a bit bored and with little to offer once there’s no longer a conversation around it.

much like all those antivax and anti jacinda bozos getting massive airtime during the pandemic. what do they offer of value now that’s it’s all in the past?

 

[MaybeTop8]

It's relevant even if it fails as it has shown how poor knowledge on the topic is and how deep the vein of racism is to the treaty partners.

A proposed wealth tax or capital gains tax being proposed by the opposition causes bigger hernias in this thread.

Yet a bill by a party thats just the face of lobby groups - going to a truncated select committee under weak leader ship and shifting goal post is no big deal.

Not to mention the blatant corruption from the gun lobby, the tobacco industry, the fishing industry, the road lobby, the mining industry etc.

 

[dean]

Entitlement. "I deserve X because Y"

Its 2024, you deserve nothing but what you earn with your two hands.

Excellent. At last a sensible interpretation.
About 35 years ago a close friend who is partner in a big law firm told me they were on the lookout for a lawyer to specialise in Treaty claims. They already had commercial lawyers, litigators, family lawyers, patent specialists etc. He said they may have to lure an intermediate lawyer with the offer of a partnership and I asked why this area of law was so important to them. Simple, because he could see the grievance industry taking off. He said it had huge growth potential for generating fees and the Govt usually paid the claimants costs.

 

[Noitall]

Really? Lol. - don't you think a good leader would say it's not what the country needs and let's fix the real issues with the country.
Instead we get this and the tabacco industry writing government policy.

The delusion is strong

Media-political stand-offs: Jack Tame's Q+A plea to PM; Why Act won't appear on 'toxic' RNZ show

Reasons can vary but some politicians are using silent treatment tactics with some media.

www.nzherald.co.nz

Behind a paywall but obviously not prepared to talk with some media

 

[juju]

Excellent. At last a sensible interpretation.
About 35 years ago a close friend who is partner in a big law firm told me they were on the lookout for a lawyer to specialise in Treaty claims. They already had commercial lawyers, litigators, family lawyers, patent specialists etc. He said they may have to lure an intermediate lawyer with the offer of a partnership and I asked why this area of law was so important to them. Simple, because he could see the grievance industry taking off. He said it had huge growth potential for generating fees and the Govt usually paid the claimants costs.

Did he mention that treaty grievances exist because of one party not upholding their part of the agreement?

Or that the total amount of settlements EVER is less than what the country spends on the pension in three months?

For people so forthright on the topic you really dont seem to have an understanding it

 

[juju]

Just because you don't like him or agree with him doesn't make him a poor leader.

You mentioned wealth and capital gains taxes suggested by the opposition in a post just previously. The same thing they stepped away from while in power with no coalition partners holding them back and forced their own Revenue Minister to resign because of it. Now that is weak leadership.

You are right about one thing, the delusion is strong.

Tell me more about this strong leadership?
Claiming an accommodation allowance while for his own freehold - while laying off civil servants?
Allowing the tobacco industry to write policy?

Letting his coalition partners walk all over him his strong.
Cute stuff!

 

[Inruin]

Tell me more about this strong leadership?
Claiming an accommodation allowance while for his own freehold - while laying off civil servants?
Allowing the tobacco industry to write policy?

Letting his coalition partners walk all over him his strong.
Cute stuff!

Keep trying mate. Next you will want to know what school I went to

 

[juju]

Keep trying mate. Next you will want to know what school I went to

more like what kindy you went to with that reply.

 

[Inruin]

more like what kindy you went to with that reply.

Yeah sorry, I shouldn't drop to your level.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Did he mention that treaty grievances exist because of one party not upholding their part of the agreement?

Or that the total amount of settlements EVER is less than what the country spends on the pension in three months?

For people so forthright on the topic you really dont seem to have an understanding it

He's talking about incentives. Humans are very basic creatures at their core.

 

[dean]

Did he mention that treaty grievances exist because of one party not upholding their part of the agreement?

Or that the total amount of settlements EVER is less than what the country spends on the pension in three months?

For people so forthright on the topic you really dont seem to have an understanding it

No. He was only interested in the revenue it generated.
Just because our views differ does not mean I don't understand.

 

[juju]

He's talking about incentives. Humans are very basic creatures at their core.

View attachment 9620

The context it is raised is in conversation of the treaty & maori.
It’s a sector that only exists because of the treaty being breached.
Lawyers will lawyer either way.

 

[dean]

The context it is raised is in conversation of the treaty & maori.
It’s a sector that only exists because of the treaty being breached.
Lawyers will lawyer either way.

The Treaty has been very lucrative for lawyers, they have a vested interested.
Maori and the Treaty are always going to be part of any related conversation.
I have had some very interesting conversations with Iwi leaders around claims stemming from the Treaty.