Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[MrFrankWhite]

An addendum - all cities got where they are by taking a risk, and with a lot lower populations than they have now. Build it and they will come.

Melbourne started building its underground 1972, population was 2.6mil.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Melbourne started building its underground 1972, population was 2.6mil.

Great facts - this is what we need.

So potentially NZ is ahead of the curve and is arguably going to struggle to have the density and population to expand it to fast.

The airport light rail seemed to have been a victim of this. Didn’t stack up but in another 15 years it might.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Great facts - this is what we need.

So potentially NZ is ahead of the curve and is arguably is going to struggle to have the density and population to expand it to fast.

The airport light rail seemed to have been a victim of this. Didn’t stack up but in another 15 years it might.

Aucklands sprawl and lack of density is wild.

 

[miket12]

Turns out they had to be dragged kicking and screaming - looks like they spent many years delaying it.

Typical right, claiming credit for progressive outcomes eh Inruin? Oh and

Greens launch Auckland rail link campaign

The Green Party has launched a campaign to try to get Aucklanders to change the Government's mind about building a rail loop in downtown Auckland.

www.rnz.co.nz

Govt backs Auckland's city rail link

Prime Minister John Key has confirmed that Government will back a city rail loop in Auckland, but will delay the start of construction by five years.

nzherald.co.nz

Greens push Auckland rail project

The Green Party is attempting to raise public awareness about Auckland's proposed underground rail loop with the launch of a Fast Track campaign on Monday.

www.rnz.co.nz

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

The first proposed version of the CRL was pushed by the Reform Party 1920's and was called the Morningside Deviation. It was going to be used as a way to reduce unemployment from the Great Depression but was abandoned in 1937 when it looked like war would breakout in Europe. The Reform Party would later merge with the Unity Party to form National.

An early proposal in 1946 by the then MOW's called for an underground rail link in Auckland.... it got stopped under the first Labour government in it's second term when Peter Fraser was PM.

 

[Noitall]

The first proposed version of the CRL was pushed by the Reform Party 1920's and was called the Morningside Deviation. It was going to be used as a way to reduce unemployment from the Great Depression but was abandoned in 1937 when it looked like war would breakout in Europe. The Reform Party would later merge with the Unity Party to form National.

An early proposal in 1946 by the then MOW's called for an underground rail link in Auckland.... it got stopped under the first Labour government in its second term when Peter Fraser was PM.

Sounds like you’ve had a visit from your neighbour Mike

 

[Tragic]

What light rail are you talking about? The one that kept getting talked about and had no money put aside for it in the budget by the previous government? At the most they cancelled a sound bite.

The city rail loop is a very good step towards what people have mentioned above about an efficient PT network like London or some Australian cities. That was put in place by a right government.

Agree it's a good thing to have a rail system that works but that city rail loop is a cluster fuck. Poorly planned, scoped and partially implemented.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Who was in government, produced the funding and got it underway? That's the bottom line.

Seems like an inconvenient truth to your claims the right don't like PT.

And I'll ask again, what light rail are you talking about that got cancelled?

 

[Tragic]

This government is incapable of the foresight for infrastructure projects and our country has forgotten how to build anything because successive fishnets turn the tap on and off and privatize everything.
The ministry of works might have been lambasted when it existed but it got a hell of a lot more done than we get now and at better quality. Without long term thinking and budgeting don't bother, you will just flush more money down the drain.

 

[Inruin]

View attachment 11480

Where was the funding and where was the start date?

 

[MaybeTop8]

Where was the funding and where was the start date?

You're the one asking that.

 

[MaybeTop8]

To clarify, are tax cuts to be tax neutral, fund our operating deficit on everyday stuff or for long term capital upgrades?

You seem to think taxing more will pay for everything.

No country has ever taxed itself rich, in fact arguably the massive tax increase the last few years has resulted in one of the longest recession in NZ history.

Tax cuts are a luxury New Zealand cannot afford.

Your second sentence - all you, nothing to do with me.

Your third sentence? All you, and what massive tax increase? Pure rubbish.

The fucking recession was manufactured by the reserve bank and extended by this selfish greedy government of the rich and it's ideological neoliberalist backers in the form of unnecessary cruelty and austerity, cuts that have destroyed thousands of lives.

Of the rich, by the rich, for the rich.

 

[Inruin]

You're the one asking that.

Yes, well done. That's the most perceptive thing I've seen you post.

I ask that because with no funding committed and no start date, all they have cancelled is a sound bite.

The light rail that didn't happen. That Auckland needs. National cancelled it as it was about to start, should have started years before.

That's your post. So where was the funding and when was this start date?

And you think the greens dragged national along to build the city rail loop. They were in government and couldn't drag themselves to get the light rail done. Are they 'destroying' public transport also?

 

[Inruin]

Fucking recession was manufactured by the reserve bank and extended by this selfish greedy government of the rich and it's ideological neoliberalist backers in the form of unnecessary cruelty and austerity, cuts that have destroyed thousands of lives.

Of the rich, by the rich, for the rich.

So labour and the left are of the rich, by the rich, for the rich by your logic?

 

[tyrael]

Not sure why y'all dogpiling on Top8. Why is it up to him to produce receipts for every comment he makes? Like if he's wrong, can't y'all produce a receipt of your own to say he's wrong?

I think it's disingenuous to ask for a start date. The moment they announced they "wanted" to build one and hired consultants was the start date imo.

Edit: a lot of these discussions require nuance and good faith reciprocation

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

All you, and what massive tax increase? Pure rubbish.

Labour increased the top personal tax rate from 33% to 39%

Labour increased the trust tax rate from 28% to 39%

Didn’t index tax rates during massive inflation effectively forcing middle income earners to pay high tax rates.

They also increased the brightline, introduced a renters tax, ute tax, petrol taxes, climate change taxes, etc

Overall Tax has increased from in $90b to $150b in just 6 years. Income as a percentage of the economy increased from about 28% to 32% (sizeable increase).

Labour themselves have stated they believe in a higher tax, higher govt spend economy. This has all been discussed before. Your sounding like a troll trying to spread misinformation…

 

[Inruin]

Not sure why y'all dogpiling on Top8. Why is it up to him to produce receipts for every comment he makes? Like if he's wrong, can't y'all produce a receipt of your own to say he's wrong?

I think it's disingenuous to ask for a start date. The moment they announced they "wanted" to build one and hired consultants was the start date imo.

Edit: a lot of these discussions require nuance and good faith reciprocation

It's disingenuous to claim the coalition is destroying public transport and use cancelling light rail as the reason for the statement, claiming it was just about to start. Asking for that start date shouldn't be particularly onerous. I asked about funding as well because it wasn't included, as far as I am aware, in Labours budgets which I would conclude backs up that there isn't a solid start date

 

[Inruin]

Budget 2024 rail investment supports reliability and value for money

www.kiwirail.co.nz

And 'significant investment' in rail from the government being accused of destroying public transport?

 

[Damo]

Overall Tax has increased from in $90b to $150b in just 6 years. Income as a percentage of the economy increased from about 28% to 32% (sizeable increase).


View attachment 11481

It was $90B in 2014/2015, so its taken 8-9 years to increase to $150B? The population has also increased by 15.8% in this time.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

It was $90B in 2014/2015, so its taken 8-9 years to increase to $150B? The population has also increased by 15.8% in this time.

2020 it was $118b; 2023 it was $152b.

This is an increase of 34% in 3 years or 11% per year. Well above inflation and population growth.

And ended up with a record 2 year and counting recession as money was pulled from the private sector

 

[Damo]

2021 it was $105b; 2023 it was $150b.

This is an increase of 42% in 3 years or 14% per year. Well above inflation and population growth.

Not sure if I am misinterpreting your graph, but 2021 was 130B