Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[MaybeTop8]

Why some are working against public transport and rail

Opinion: A sensible transport strategy will require the courage to look beyond the commercial interests of a one-dimensional transport and infrastructure industry.

newsroom.co.nz

 

[MaybeTop8]

A reminder of how economically destructive this government is, except for the wealthy of course

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

A reminder of how economically destructive this government is, except for the wealthy of course

View attachment 11478

We have the negative of less tax for the government.

To give a well rounded analysis, can you explain how that tax cut helps families, the economy, businesses and inflation?i

And then to justify your claims of unaffordable highlight the 2024 total tax take vs say 2018?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Why some are working against public transport and rail

Opinion: A sensible transport strategy will require the courage to look beyond the commercial interests of a one-dimensional transport and infrastructure industry.

newsroom.co.nz

I’m pro public transport, particularly in our biggest cities.

Big cities end up being just huge transport systems to get people around with housing congregated around transport hubs. Transport systems are the first priority before lifestyle with trains, motorways bridges and tunnels weaving across the city. Communities are divided and open spaces used, look at Sydney with multiple transport bridges across Darling Harbour. Transport must trump all else. Massive transport systems come at an amenity cost, but that’s the cost of mega cities.

What overseas city is a good example of the transport system we should follow?

 

[Damo]

I’m pro public transport, particularly in our biggest cities.

Big cities end up being just huge transport systems to get people around with housing congregated around transport hubs. Transport systems are the first priority before lifestyle with trains, motorways bridges and tunnels weaving across the city. Communities are divided and open spaces used, look at Sydney with multiple transport bridges across Darling Harbour. Transport must trump all else. Massive transport systems come at an amenity cost, but that’s the cost of mega cities.

What overseas city is a good example of the transport system we should follow?

Melbournes was pretty good when I was there, although seemed to be a lot of outages from time to time.

Sydneys was decent, I marvelled at how you could use your debit/credit card instead of an AT hop card. Good that Auckland Transport has brought that in now. Tourists/visitors to Auckland no longer need to buy a specific card just to use public transport.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

I’m pro public transport, particularly in our biggest cities.

Big cities end up being just huge transport systems to get people around with housing congregated around transport hubs. Transport systems are the first priority before lifestyle with trains, motorways bridges and tunnels weaving across the city. Communities are divided and open spaces used, look at Sydney with multiple transport bridges across Darling Harbour. Transport must trump all else. Massive transport systems come at an amenity cost, but that’s the cost of mega cities.

What overseas city is a good example of the transport system we should follow?

If we follow my Sydney example above, we would build a new train line plus a new motorway both underground from the CBD to Albany (train would in reality tunnel under the harbour and replace the northern bus lane from Takapuna), with the underground motorway tolled at say $15+ for use and always be free flowing.

This would give a high cost, fast option for trucks, commercial vehicles and people prepared to pay; clogged up existing roads for people not wanting to pay and cheap public transport for the masses.

This would be replicated out west, southwest, south, south west and east with links interlinking them.

It’s not public transport vs motorway. We need it all and our biggest issue is doing anything cost effectively in NZ.

 

[MaybeTop8]

I’m pro public transport, particularly in our biggest cities.

Big cities end up being just huge transport systems to get people around with housing congregated around transport hubs. Transport systems are the first priority before lifestyle with trains, motorways bridges and tunnels weaving across the city. Communities are divided and open spaces used, look at Sydney with multiple transport bridges across Darling Harbour. Transport must trump all else. Massive transport systems come at an amenity cost, but that’s the cost of mega cities.

What overseas city is a good example of the transport system we should follow?

London is great, berlin is fantastic, Paris, many other places I've been have had fantastic systems.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

London is great, berlin is fantastic, Paris, many other places I've been have had fantastic systems.

All great cities we should follow!

At what population density did they get the massive underground train networks?

My issue with our transport is the where and when. Auckland needs huge public transport and general investment to grow into a 2m+ city.

Tauranga with 150k people is bankrupting itself trying to prioritise public transport without the density or population to support it.

 

[Noitall]

London is great, berlin is fantastic, Paris, many other places I've been have had fantastic systems.

London underground is one of the most efficient public transport systems I’ve ever come across

 

[Inruin]

London underground is one of the most efficient public transport systems I’ve ever come across

London also has a population 5 times the size of Auckland to support it.

We have started heading down that path with the previous National government in 2016

City Rail Link (CRL) - Official site

City Rail Link (CRL), official site for NZ Government/Auckland Council underground City Rail Link project, Auckland's number one transport priority.

www.cityraillink.co.nz

We also have had the bus hubs (like Oteha valley) and motorway lanes completed.

Since then we haven't had much at all added. There had been a lot of talk about light rail to the airport which stayed as talk. We did get te Huia which didn't appear to have a realistic cost/benefit put to it There seemed to have been more focus on cycle ways (think harbour bridge skyway) and slowing down traffic.

I think there is a lot of assumption that the right don't like or want pubic transport but the facts don't actually seem to support this. Any programme needs to be fundable and buildable in a rational, staged way. With the city rail link there is a good step towards an effective rail public transport option in the city.

 

[MaybeTop8]

London also has a population 5 times the size of Auckland to support it.

We have started heading down that path with the previous National government in 2016

City Rail Link (CRL) - Official site

City Rail Link (CRL), official site for NZ Government/Auckland Council underground City Rail Link project, Auckland's number one transport priority.

www.cityraillink.co.nz

We also have had the bus hubs (like Oteha valley) and motorway lanes completed.

Since then we haven't had much at all added. There had been a lot of talk about light rail to the airport which stayed as talk. We did get te Huia which didn't appear to have a realistic cost/benefit put to it There seemed to have been more focus on cycle ways (think harbour bridge skyway) and slowing down traffic.

I think there is a lot of assumption that the right don't like or want pubic transport but the facts don't actually seem to support this. Any programme needs to be fundable and buildable in a rational, staged way. With the city rail link there is a good step towards an effective rail public transport option in the city.

Light rail got cancelled by this National government

The facts support powerful lobby groups behind this government pushing for policies to destroy public transport in New Zealand. Simeon Brown is an extreme ideologist of the very right.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Incompatible with the Atlas agenda. Incompatible with making the rich richer. Incompatible with stripping NZ of it's assets and natural wealth. Incompatible with Climate Change.

 

[MaybeTop8]

London also has a population 5 times the size of Auckland to support it.

We have started heading down that path with the previous National government in 2016

City Rail Link (CRL) - Official site

City Rail Link (CRL), official site for NZ Government/Auckland Council underground City Rail Link project, Auckland's number one transport priority.

www.cityraillink.co.nz

We also have had the bus hubs (like Oteha valley) and motorway lanes completed.

Since then we haven't had much at all added. There had been a lot of talk about light rail to the airport which stayed as talk. We did get te Huia which didn't appear to have a realistic cost/benefit put to it There seemed to have been more focus on cycle ways (think harbour bridge skyway) and slowing down traffic.

I think there is a lot of assumption that the right don't like or want pubic transport but the facts don't actually seem to support this. Any programme needs to be fundable and buildable in a rational, staged way. With the city rail link there is a good step towards an effective rail public transport option in the city.

An addendum - all cities got where they are by taking a risk, and with a lot lower populations than they have now. Build it and they will come. The problem is the lack of vision and pure shortsightedness means a lack of political will to build something that will benefit us all for 50 - 100 years, even if it takes 20 years to build.

The ferries - that's a great example of ideology and greed fucking us over completely, shortsightedness in the extreme.

A portion of the money that this government is borrowing for tax cuts would have easily paid for infrastructure that would last nz 100 years.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Speaking of greed:

Money Changes Everything

Fast-Track bill to pay dividends for coalition donors.

nickrockel.substack.com

 

[Inruin]

Light rail got cancelled by this National government

The facts support powerful lobby groups behind this government pushing for policies to destroy public transport in New Zealand. Simeon Brown is an extreme ideologist of the very right.

What light rail are you talking about? The one that kept getting talked about and had no money put aside for it in the budget by the previous government? At the most they cancelled a sound bite.

The city rail loop is a very good step towards what people have mentioned above about an efficient PT network like London or some Australian cities. That was put in place by a right government.

 

[MaybeTop8]

What light rail are you talking about? The one that kept getting talked about and had no money put aside for it in the budget by the previous government? At the most they cancelled a sound bite.

The city rail loop is a very good step towards what people have mentioned above about an efficient PT network like London or some Australian cities. That was put in place by a right government.

Turns out they had to be dragged kicking and screaming - looks like they spent many years delaying it.

Typical right, claiming credit for progressive outcomes eh Inruin? Oh and

Greens launch Auckland rail link campaign

The Green Party has launched a campaign to try to get Aucklanders to change the Government's mind about building a rail loop in downtown Auckland.

www.rnz.co.nz

Govt backs Auckland's city rail link

Prime Minister John Key has confirmed that Government will back a city rail loop in Auckland, but will delay the start of construction by five years.

nzherald.co.nz

Greens push Auckland rail project

The Green Party is attempting to raise public awareness about Auckland's proposed underground rail loop with the launch of a Fast Track campaign on Monday.

www.rnz.co.nz

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

 

[Inruin]

Turns out they had to be dragged kicking and screaming - looks like they spent many years delaying it.

Typical right, claiming credit for progressive outcomes eh Inruin? Oh and

Greens launch Auckland rail link campaign

The Green Party has launched a campaign to try to get Aucklanders to change the Government's mind about building a rail loop in downtown Auckland.

www.rnz.co.nz

Govt backs Auckland's city rail link

Prime Minister John Key has confirmed that Government will back a city rail loop in Auckland, but will delay the start of construction by five years.

nzherald.co.nz

Greens push Auckland rail project

The Green Party is attempting to raise public awareness about Auckland's proposed underground rail loop with the launch of a Fast Track campaign on Monday.

www.rnz.co.nz

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Who was in government, produced the funding and got it underway? That's the bottom line.

Seems like an inconvenient truth to your claims the right don't like PT.

And I'll ask again, what light rail are you talking about that got cancelled?

 

[MaybeTop8]

Who was in government, produced the funding and got it underway? That's the bottom line.

Seems like an inconvenient truth to your claims the right don't like PT.

And I'll ask again, what light rail are you talking about that got cancelled?

The light rail that didn't happen. That Auckland needs. National cancelled it as it was about to start, should have started years before.

You lot are SO on the wrong side of history, yet the right are SO powerful and dominant. Fascism on the rise everywhere, all on the right.

This isn't about right or left. It's about being honest about what's actually taking place here, and who the powers are behind it.

If you all are comfortable with that, good luck to you.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Who was in government, produced the funding and got it underway? That's the bottom line.

Seems like an inconvenient truth to your claims the right don't like PT.

And I'll ask again, what light rail are you talking about that got cancelled?

And you know full well the road lobby dominate the right parties in nz.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

A portion of the money that this government is borrowing for tax cuts would have easily paid for infrastructure that would last nz 100 years.

To clarify, are tax cuts to be tax neutral, fund our operating deficit on everyday stuff or for long term capital upgrades?

You seem to think taxing more will pay for everything.

No country has ever taxed itself rich, in fact arguably the massive tax increase the last few years has resulted in one of the longest recession in NZ history.