Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[dean]

Tell me you know nothing about the military without telling me. One good thing about it, is it teaches ultimate responsibility. Everything that happens underneath you is both your responsibility and your fault.

I understand the skippers responsibility. I doubt it would be much different to the civilian equivalent, but you would know.
If something happened outside of her control, like a technical, electronic or mechanical breakdown that she or her crew were unable to remedy before nature took it's course , I doubt she will be found responsible or guilty.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

And what is the narrative? They have covered what they know.

Releasing a statement to cover the female captain to stop any commentary about her being female causing the wreck is as ignorant as the commentary. Quite ironic really.

Thats not how psychological operations work. First there would be a news article stating "unnamed sources" saying there had been maintenance issues. Then another puff piece talking about how well the evac was managed etc. Throw some dirt on the equipment manufactures, even the boat builders.

This is standard military response 101.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

I understand the skippers responsibility. I doubt it would be much different to the civilian equivalent, but you would know.
If something happened outside of her control, like a technical, electronic or mechanical breakdown that she or her crew were unable to remedy before nature took it's course , I doubt she will be found responsible or guilty.

Because of the platform capability, there are a million checks and cross checks to make sure that a critical technical, electronic or mechanical breakdown DOESNT occur. Could definitely be a complete freak accident though.

 

[juju]

You don't actually care, but still willing to throw barbs out there about it.

The boat sank 2 days ago in Samoa. The crew have been recovering and flown back to NZ.

There hasn't been time to get any sort of decent investigation done yet you are wanting concise info about it.

No knickers twisted, but again, not surprised you would throw something like that in.

It's an explanation on how those sorts of stories have been given oxygen by the lack of PR.
It's not exactly a master class in crisis management is it?

Investigation or not they would know straight away if it's human error or not.

You seem to want an argument about it, it's that I don't care for.

 

[Inruin]

Thats not how psychological operations work. First there would be a news article stating "unnamed sources" saying there had been maintenance issues. Then another puff piece talking about how well the evac was managed etc. Throw some dirt on the equipment manufactures, even the boat builders.

This is standard military response 101.

Evac puff piece complete. So we are under way...

The Captain undoubtedly saved lives with her quick thinking and bravery in a challenging situation.

 

[dean]

And what is the narrative? They have covered what they know.

Releasing a statement to cover the female captain to stop any commentary about her being female causing the wreck is as ignorant as the commentary. Quite ironic really.

Maybe the Navy doesn't know the EXACT fault or reason for it. There could have been recent work done by an outside contractor, something may have failed that had recently be serviced or replaced and has commercial implications releasing information now.

 

[Inruin]

It's an explanation on how those sorts of stories have been given oxygen by the lack of PR.
It's not exactly a master class in crisis management is it?

Investigation or not they would know straight away if it's human error or not.

You seem to want an argument about it, it's that I don't care for.

So what PR do you want them to put out that they haven't already?

"I know the Captain is female, but we can categorically say it wasn't her fault'

Have you done the investigation already?

"well, no, but...."

 

[Inruin]

Maybe the Navy doesn't know the EXACT fault or reason for it. There could have been recent work done by an outside contractor, something may have failed that had recently be serviced or replaced and has commercial implications releasing information now.

There are a number of things that need to be looked at but apparently the Navy should release a concise statement absolving the Captain because she is female and we don't want ignorant commentary....

 

[miket12]

So what PR do you want them to put out that they haven't already?

"I know the Captain is female, but we can categorically say it wasn't her fault'

Have you done the investigation already?

"well, no, but...."

Don't you lot see it for what it is? The coalition government are creating a crisis so they can privatise the armed forces. They've already considering it with the Air Force after the 757 broke down. Then this ship and finally the Army will be reviewed after a pistol misfires. Classic neo-lib tactics!!!!

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Evac puff piece complete. So we are under way...

Haha just saw a few. "Captain's decision to abandon HMNZS Manawanui 'saved lives' - Navy Chief. Now we are cooking Thats OG PsyOp if ever ive seen one.

Captain's decision to abandon HMNZS Manawanui 'saved lives' - Navy Chief

The HMNZS Manawanui sank this morning after it ran aground on a reef off the coast of the Samoan island of Upolu and caught fire.

www.1news.co.nz

 

[MrFrankWhite]

It gets worse. It was surveying the very reef it hit.

The HMNZS Manawanui left Auckland’s Devonport just over a week ago and was conducting a reef survey off the coast of Samoa but ran aground at 6.46pm on Saturday.

 

[juju]

So what PR do you want them to put out that they haven't already?

"I know the Captain is female, but we can categorically say it wasn't her fault'

Have you done the investigation already?

"well, no, but...."

There are a number of responses to douse the speculation on that specific topic, that is making international media.
Not addressing it only gives it more oxygen. PR 101

If only you cared as much Government Ministers being gun lobbyists and tabacco industry shills as you do on the Navy saying "It was a technical fault or it was human error"

 

[Noitall]

Don't you lot see it for what it is? The coalition government are creating a crisis so they can privatise the armed forces. They've already considering it with the Air Force after the 757 broke down. Then this ship and finally the Army will be reviewed after a pistol misfires. Classic neo-lib tactics!!!!

I’m more seeing Judith Collins as a shithouse minister again. Surely she could have gone and done some checks. Sacked for conflict of interest, takes national to worst ever defeat, now this

 

[Inruin]

There are a number of responses to douse the speculation on that specific topic, that is making international media.
Not addressing it only gives it more oxygen. PR 101

If only you cared as much Government Ministers being gun lobbyists and tabacco industry shills as you do on the Navy saying "It was a technical fault or it was human error"

I don't care but...

NIce way to try and deflect as per your norm.

Please provide a potential response that is concise that doesn't leave the Navy in a potentially compromising situation given an investigation has probably only just started. And where in the media has it been said that the reason for the wreck is because the Captain is a woman.

 

[John Nick]

This thread is getting more and more like FB everyday.

 

[miket12]

I’m more seeing Judith Collins as a shithouse minister again. Surely she could have gone and done some checks. Sacked for conflict of interest, takes national to worst ever defeat, now this

I personally think she should go back to crushing cars. Pity Ron Mark isn't still an MP with NZF.... I think he would have made a very good defense minister.

 

[Inruin]

I personally think she should go back to crushing cars. Pity Ron Mark isn't still an MP with NZF.... I think he would have made a very good defense minister.

Progressed from crushing cars to ships?

I liked Ron Mark as an MP and Minister

 

[juju]

I don't care but...

NIce way to try and deflect as per your norm.

Please provide a potential response that is concise that doesn't leave the Navy in a potentially compromising situation given an investigation has probably only just started. And where in the media has it been said that the reason for the wreck is because the Captain is a woman.

"An investigation was launched as soon soon as the recovery effort was completed and all crew were safe, the navy is working to ascertain the technical issues that lead . The Navy commends the captains actions"

It could be as benign as that.

It's what they are NOT saying that gives the topic oxygen.

They literally have PR staff manage how the public responds to this situation.

Instead we've had Ron Marks saying the ships insured, Judith Collins say it's not. And then speculation running rampant internationally on the cause.

TBH I find it weird you're having this much of a cry about it all.

 

[Noitall]

I personally think she should go back to crushing cars. Pity Ron Mark isn't still an MP with NZF.... I think he would have made a very good defense minister.

Carterton mayor now. I thought he was the ideal candidate. Collins is an absolute waste of space

 

[miket12]

Carterton mayor now. I thought he was the ideal candidate. Collins is an absolute waste of space

Throughout NZ First's history, Mark is the one MP that they've had who earned my respect.