Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[wizard of Tauranga]

It's astounding that a certain group on here are tying themselves in knots to mount some kind of defense of the indefensible.

Who has defended it? Quote them from this thread. Your big ‘right wing takeover in here’ is all in your head.

I don’t particularly like that the govt is cuddling up to smoking but it’s a non issue for me. Everyone knows the issues with smoking and anyone that partakes gets no sympathy from me. Who cares!

I bet you don’t even smoke but make out it’s a huge issue - that nobody else really cares about.

Of more concern for me if we’re talking corruption (lobbying) was Labour tied to the unions - fair pay agreements where 10% union support can force a whole industry under union control; govt settlements with unions that the govt isn’t allowed to match to non/union members; enforced unionism, etc. These affect everyone and is the same pandering to lobby groups. Unions vote on Labours leadership…

Same with the media quoting unions against National policy. They have a conflict of interest and what they say should be disregarded.

The same ‘corruption’ (lobbying) as smoking that I’m sure you were vocal calling Labour out for

Ps - like frank, I don’t mind your posts as you are generally respectful and don’t get personal. Some alternative views and you pick and choose what you reply to but your position is backed up by what you believe and I can’t criticise that.

 

[MaybeTop8]

While we're at it https://www.theguardian.com/comment.../31/brazil-global-tax-billionaires-super-rich

 

[MaybeTop8]

Who has defended it? Quote them from this thread. Your big ‘right wing takeover in here’ is all in your head.

I don’t particularly like that the govt is cuddling up to smoking but it’s a non issue for me. Everyone knows the issues with smoking and anyone that partakes gets no sympathy from me. Who cares!

I bet you don’t even smoke but make out it’s a huge issue - that nobody else really cares about.

Of more concern for me if we’re talking corruption (lobbying) was Labour tied to the unions - fair pay agreements where 10% union support can force a whole industry under union control; govt settlements with unions that the govt isn’t allowed to match to non/union members; enforced unionism, etc. These affect everyone and is the same pandering to lobby groups. Unions vote on Labours leadership…

Same with the media quoting unions against National policy. They have a conflict of interest and what they say should be disregarded.

The same ‘corruption’ (lobbying) as smoking that I’m sure you were vocal calling Labour out for

Ps - like frank, I don’t mind your posts as you are generally respectful and don’t get personal. Some alternative views and you pick and choose what you reply to but your position is backed up by what you believe and I can’t criticise that.

Is justification the same as defence? Marv for one. It's not just this, it's the ferries, the manufactured crises, the sharp right turn to fossil fuels. There's any number of extremely bad policy, in the context of enriching and making better New Zealand and the world that this government has made.

The attacks on Maori driven directly through policy. The class war. The attacks on the poor. Enriching the landlords with billions and giving hundreds of millions to tobacco companies directly.

A tax cut we can't afford. A manufactured health crisis - claim spending is out of control when all they're doing is trying to get pay parity and keep the lights on.

Openly promoting and spending billions on roads and fossil fuels with no long term gain, robbing our kids of a better future.

Deregulation of the building industry when we're still reeling from the last time National did that, costing nz $50b and counting.

The privatisation that no one voted for, being undertaking by stealth.

Allowing Act, who got fuck all votes to push through policy that National secretly loves but knows it won't go down well publicly.

All bad for the common good, all designed to enrich their donors, somewhat more directly enough to be called corruption.

Yet there's redirection and shrugs here, which is odd really. Fair enough if you love neoliberal policy that enriches the wealthy and fucks over everyone else. But simple right good and left bad? We can be better than that.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

While we're at it https://www.theguardian.com/comment.../31/brazil-global-tax-billionaires-super-rich

Here’s something thought provoking:

After Germany unified, the poorer Eastern (formerly Russian) half was very left with a huge far left support.

The richer Right half (western), was notably politically more right.

A significant difference despite essentially being the same people with 50 years of seperate governance.

So is our political inclination a product of our upbringing and situation? And does our left or right outlook become a self fulfilling prophecy in how we view situations and get outcomes?

 

[MaybeTop8]

Here’s something thought provoking:

After Germany unified, the poorer Eastern (formerly Russian) half was very left with a huge far left support.

The richer Right half (western), was notably politically more right.

A significant difference despite essentially being the same people with 50 years of seperate governance.

So is our political inclination a product of our upbringing and situation? And does our left or right outlook become a self fulfilling prophecy in how we view situations and get outcomes?

well, we've had 40 + years of neoliberal governance. It's indoctrinated in the reserve bank and most economists in this country. It's indoctrinated within some ministries, speculation on my part but I'd say that was true based on how quickly they rolled over on the change of government.

Your last sentence kinda reads does an echo chamber mean a self fulfilling prophecy, and I'd have to say yes if that's what you're asking

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Is justification the same as defence? Marv for one. It's not just this, it's the ferries, the manufactured crises, the sharp right turn to fossil fuels. There's any number of extremely bad policy, in the context of enriching and making better New Zealand and the world that this government has made.

The attacks on Maori driven directly through policy. The class war. The attacks on the poor. Enriching the landlords with billions and giving hundreds of millions to tobacco companies directly.

A tax cut we can't afford. A manufactured health crisis - claim spending is out of control when all they're doing is trying to get pay parity and keep the lights on.

Openly promoting and spending billions on roads and fossil fuels with no long term gain, robbing our kids of a better future.

Deregulation of the building industry when we're still reeling from the last time National did that, costing nz $50b and counting.

The privatisation that no one voted for, being undertaking by stealth.

Allowing Act, who got fuck all votes to push through policy that National secretly loves but knows it won't go down well publicly.

All bad for the common good, all designed to enrich their donors, somewhat more directly enough to be called corruption.

Yet there's redirection and shrugs here, which is odd really. Fair enough if you love neoliberal policy that enriches the wealthy and fucks over everyone else. But simple right good and left bad? We can be better than that.

Right so a lot of words to say certain group on here are not tying themselves in knots to mount some kind of defence of smoking changes…

 

[marv.]

Is justification the same as defence? Marv for one. It's not just this, it's the ferries, the manufactured crises, the sharp right turn to fossil fuels. There's any number of extremely bad policy, in the context of enriching and making better New Zealand and the world that this government has made.

The attacks on Maori driven directly through policy. The class war. The attacks on the poor. Enriching the landlords with billions and giving hundreds of millions to tobacco companies directly.

A tax cut we can't afford. A manufactured health crisis - claim spending is out of control when all they're doing is trying to get pay parity and keep the lights on.

Openly promoting and spending billions on roads and fossil fuels with no long term gain, robbing our kids of a better future.

Deregulation of the building industry when we're still reeling from the last time National did that, costing nz $50b and counting.

The privatisation that no one voted for, being undertaking by stealth.

Allowing Act, who got fuck all votes to push through policy that National secretly loves but knows it won't go down well publicly.

All bad for the common good, all designed to enrich their donors, somewhat more directly enough to be called corruption.

Yet there's redirection and shrugs here, which is odd really. Fair enough if you love neoliberal policy that enriches the wealthy and fucks over everyone else. But simple right good and left bad? We can be better than that.

im pretty sure i can say i haven’t justified any of that. hell, i dont even THINK any of that.

you seem to have decided on a bunch of shit you’ve read between the lines or something and gone off on one?

how old are you?
just out of interest.
also just for whatever it’s worth. you’re probably the king of one side good one side bad.
and redirection?! i’d wager it’s on your passport inbetween your given and surnames.

i won’t argue this though. you do seem kind….
just hopelessly misguided.

have a good one though, maybe your weird idealistic utopia where everyone cares more about their less motivated neigbour than their own family happens for you.

maybe commune living is what you’re looking for?

me though?
and others here know that no matter which government is in power, they ain’t giving you enough to live in old age. so get out and get your own. orrrrr just complain i suppose.

i hope your landlord accepts petulance and belligerent ranting in lieu of rent.



good luck.

 

[MaybeTop8]

im pretty sure i can say i haven’t justified any of that. hell, i dont even THINK any of that.

you seem to have decided on a bunch of shit you’ve read between the lines or something and gone off on one?

how old are you?
just out of interest.
also just for whatever it’s worth. you’re probably the king of one side good one side bad.
and redirection?! i’d wager it’s on your passport inbetween your given and surnames.

i won’t argue this though. you do seem kind….
just hopelessly misguided.

have a good one though, maybe your weird idealistic utopia where everyone cares more about their less motivated neigbour than their own family happens for you.

maybe commune living is what you’re looking for?

me though?
and others here know that no matter which government is in power, they ain’t giving you enough to live in old age. so get out and get your own. orrrrr just complain i suppose.

i hope your landlord accepts petulance and belligerent ranting in lieu of rent.



good luck.

Thanks marv, I knew you cared, in a.....well, not sure.

My bio is on these pages by the way. And I was old enough to vote when longe was in power.

Keep making the assumptions, I'll keep batting them back.

 

[marv.]

Thanks marv, I knew you cared, in a.....well, not sure.

My bio is on these pages by the way. And I was old enough to vote when longe was in power.

Keep making the assumptions, I'll keep batting them back.

i do care.
i’ve often said you seem like a kind guy.
but you’re obviously old enough to acknowledge all the proof people reply to you with that you either ignore into your next tirade or batt away with left leaning opinion pieces?

the world is a big, bad, fast paced place dude.
what you’re yearning for is nothing more than a dream.

surely you don’t actually think it’s realistic?!

 

[MaybeTop8]

i do care.
i’ve often said you seem like a kind guy.
but you’re obviously old enough to acknowledge all the proof people reply to you with that you either ignore into your next tirade or batt away with left leaning opinion pieces?

the world is a big, bad, fast paced place dude.
what you’re yearning for is nothing more than a dream.

It's all about the public good marv. Have a look at the actual things this government are implementing or trying to implement. Not much is for the benefit of the many.

Most important I don't keep quiet, and most of the "proof" fits in with someone else's echo chamber, which someone like myself could argue equally is biased, and hey, the world's a bad place, so they should get back to.....watching tv? I dunno, that might sound a bit condescending.

 

[marv.]

It's all about the public good marv. Have a look at the actual things this government are implementing or trying to implement. Not much is for the benefit of the many.

the majority of voters who voted this lot in are ‘the public’ too.
whether you like it or not. their vote is worth EXACTLY as much as yours.

 

[marv.]

the world's a bad place, so they should get back to.....watching tv?

huh??!

 

[MrFrankWhite]

crying "ITs ThE PArentS" to a complex societal issue won't every solve anything with society - it will get you laughed at.

Social conformity only really works for women, I couldn't give a flying fuck.

Funnily enough the inability to follow logical thought sequences is also a feminine trait

6.3 Person, Gender, and Cultural Differences in Conformity – Principles of Social Psychology – 1st International H5P Edition

opentextbc.ca

 

[MrFrankWhite]

While we're at it https://www.theguardian.com/comment.../31/brazil-global-tax-billionaires-super-rich

Great theory. Lets see how it plays out

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Your friendly reminder that liberals care more about rocks than they do about your family.

 

[juju]

Social conformity only really works for women, I couldn't give a flying fuck.

Funnily enough the inability to follow logical thought sequences is also a feminine trait

6.3 Person, Gender, and Cultural Differences in Conformity – Principles of Social Psychology – 1st International H5P Edition

opentextbc.ca

Really on topic...

The study definitely does not say social conformity only really works for women.

You're a bit too narcissistic to take it all in.

 

[Lord Gnome of Waiheke]

Fossil fuels above all as we enrich private wealth
View attachment 8350

Partick and Clint are both good friends of mine, and they know their stuff.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

It's all about the public good marv. Have a look at the actual things this government are implementing or trying to implement. Not much is for the benefit of the many.

Reflect on this:

Did populist stuff like increasing minimum wage 50+% under Labour; fixing child poverty; policing by consent; being kind; etc really fix anything?

It may be counter logical but doing what’s right and focusing on the fundamentals, EVEN IF ITS UNPOPULAR will end up benefiting the most.

A good example - we need houses - smash all the existing rules while people moan but getting it sorted will help everyone

 

[Tragic]

I kinda side with Frank on why support shit/lazy parents when it doesn't make them better parents and they probably waste and extra support on the wrong things anyway. But the kids are then left without so I totally support school lunches but that's not all that's needed to help a kid without guidance., so more is needed to identify and help them while taking the parents out with killer drones.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

I kinda side with Frank on why support shit/lazy parents when it doesn't make them better parents and they probably waste and extra support on the wrong things anyway. But the kids are then left without so I totally support school lunches but that's not all that's needed to help a kid without guidance., so more is needed to identify and help them while taking the parents out with killer drones.

One thing just to remember with all this is that these lazy terrible parents were once the kids without guidance. The problem is generational.