Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[Damo]

yeah dude.
it was more directed at those so upset or surprised or outraged like cigarettes are the only problem.
like the rest of the world should slow down and wait for those who can’t control themselves.

why are we so upset in this country over cigarettes but not say, pokies or KFC?

i do however think it’s not the worst idea in theory to tax junk food and subsidize whole foods. probably because i don’t eat that rubbish. (i drink more than enough to make up for it), i just think all that shit tastes fucking foul.

but what a wonderful world it would be for the consumer.
i don’t see a way it works in reality though, when you put into the equation minimum wage or mass layoffs and the absolute reaming the growers already take.

Whataboutism at it's finest. I agree, Pokies and Junk food also need to be in the firing line. Does not mean we cannot also complain about the tobacco industry and any policies that are making it more accessible?

 

[juju]

yeah dude.
it was more directed at those so upset or surprised or outraged like cigarettes are the only problem.
like the rest of the world should slow down and wait for those who can’t control themselves.

why are we so upset in this country over cigarettes but not say, pokies or KFC?

Because a corporation & sector who make a product that kills people, has infiltrated a MINOR political party and now has undue influence on policy, wrecking and repelling policy.

It's shady as f & the policy is only set to benefit the corporations and not citizens.

I'm sure fast food and gambling have lobby groups but nowhere near to that level.

 

[defensivebomb]

all boils down to education. Fund that properly and you solve your problems.

School Lunches: The Key to Children’s Health and Prosperity | The Government of Japan - JapanGov -

The healthy growth of children in Japan owes much to the provision of nutritionally balanced school-lunch menus and a long standing commitment to nutrition education. Japan also offers school-lunch support internationally, leading to improved nutrition and higher quality learning.

www.japan.go.jp

I remember back in school, (an Auckland public primary school @juju), we were taught nutrition. We had posters in the classroom and we went home and made something healthy from what we learned. It was an enjoyable part of the curriculum

Nutrition education can be delivered as cheaply as that

Hasn't stopped me eating crap, but at least I know what I should eat more and less of.

The problem here in NZ is that a lot of issues get conflated with political issues. E.g. provided school lunches are both educational and used to address poverty. So inevitably a programme like school lunches get kicked around. One minute they are being rolled out, then they are used to address household costs, then some leech companies suck the blood out of the programme, then it costs too much, then it gets pared back but as it is part of social welfare it is a hot potato, which, I might add, is in the lower part of the food pyramid

A bit more challenging these days where convenience food is everywhere and people are time poor. Uber Eats is everywhere, despite its ludicrous "service" and "delivery" fees, and shafting of the restaurants. I am a homeowner and don't use Uber Eats because of the cost. But at our last house, the neighbours were renters, and they used to get it almost daily. The point I am making here is that it is a waste of money, on top of the crap food they were buying.

The other challenge is that Education has its own curriculum challenges as well.

Anyway, up the f*cken wahs

 

[MrFrankWhite]

I remember back in school, (an Auckland public primary school @juju), we were taught nutrition. We had posters in the classroom and we went home and made something healthy from what we learned. It was an enjoyable part of the curriculum

Nutrition education can be delivered as cheaply as that

Hasn't stopped me eating crap, but at least I know what I should eat more and less of.

The problem here in NZ is that a lot of issues get conflated with political issues. E.g. provided school lunches are both educational and used to address poverty. So inevitably a programme like school lunches get kicked around. One minute they are being rolled out, then they are used to address household costs, then some leech companies suck the blood out of the programme, then it costs too much, then it gets pared back but as it is part of social welfare it is a hot potato, which, I might add, is in the lower part of the food pyramid

A bit more challenging these days where convenience food is everywhere and people are time poor. Uber Eats is everywhere, despite its ludicrous "service" and "delivery" fees, and shafting of the restaurants. I am a homeowner and don't use Uber Eats because of the cost. But at our last house, the neighbours were renters, and they used to get it almost daily. The point I am making here is that it is a waste of money, on top of the crap food they were buying.

The other challenge is that Education has its own curriculum challenges as well.

Anyway, up the f*cken wahs

And tbf, you need educated parents advocating for such change. So it takes at least 3 generations to really see results. Too bad politicians think in election cycles.

 

[juju]

I remember back in school, (an Auckland public primary school @juju), we were taught nutrition. We had posters in the classroom and we went home and made something healthy from what we learned. It was an enjoyable part of the curriculum

Nutrition education can be delivered as cheaply as that

Hasn't stopped me eating crap, but at least I know what I should eat more and less of.

The problem here in NZ is that a lot of issues get conflated with political issues. E.g. provided school lunches are both educational and used to address poverty. So inevitably a programme like school lunches get kicked around. One minute they are being rolled out, then they are used to address household costs, then some leech companies suck the blood out of the programme, then it costs too much, then it gets pared back but as it is part of social welfare it is a hot potato, which, I might add, is in the lower part of the food pyramid

A bit more challenging these days where convenience food is everywhere and people are time poor. Uber Eats is everywhere, despite its ludicrous "service" and "delivery" fees, and shafting of the restaurants. I am a homeowner and don't use Uber Eats because of the cost. But at our last house, the neighbours were renters, and they used to get it almost daily. The point I am making here is that it is a waste of money, on top of the crap food they were buying.

The other challenge is that Education has its own curriculum challenges as well.

Anyway, up the f*cken wahs

I agree - Ubereats is fucked. I almost find it dystopian.

As you say, it is really sad this is a political issue...

They still do education in primary about nutrition,

but really the point of why food in schools is needed in New Zealand now is the wealth gap is much larger now than when we were all growing up.
The lower decile schools have shocking statistics around how many kids bring lunches & how that affects the learning & behaviour.
We can blame the parents or fast food culture but that does nothing to address the issue in the long term.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

I agree - Ubereats is fucked. I almost find it dystopian.

As you say, it is really sad this is a political issue...

They still do education in primary about nutrition,

but really the point of why food in schools is needed in New Zealand now is the wealth gap is much larger now than when we were all growing up.
The lower decile schools have shocking statistics around how many kids bring lunches & how that affects the learning & behaviour.
We can blame the parents or fast food culture but that does nothing to address the issue in the long term.

Again it’s the parents. Prime example is homes that could have a vegetable garden but don’t.

I grew up at bottom of the socioeconomic ladder but my mother had a solid understanding of nutrition and cooking, so I grew up with the same.

Poverty is not barrier to nutritious food. Laziness is though.

 

[juju]

Again it’s the parents. Prime example is homes that could have a vegetable garden but don’t.

I grew up at bottom of the socioeconomic ladder but my mother had a solid understanding of nutrition and cooking, so I grew up with the same.

Poverty is not barrier to nutritious food. Laziness is though.

It's the parents if you have a David Goggins view of it all.
What would have happened to you if weren't fortunate enough to have a good parent & born into a dirt poor family with terrible habits ingrained

Parenting is definitely an issue - but its intergenerational poverty much much more so.
An issue a good government could think long term about and address that (via education and nutrition)

 

[MrFrankWhite]

It's the parents if you have a David Goggins view of it all.

In a family you have parents and kids. Are you seriously suggesting that its the kids fault? Or are you saying that adults should have less accountability if they are poor?

 

[juju]

In a family you have parents and kids. Are you seriously suggesting that its the kids fault? Or are you saying that adults should have less accountability if they are poor?

I'm saying as a society (and government) we can do better to help children unfortunate to be trapped in that cycle.

Constantly schreeching "Its the parents" does fix the cycle. It's a multigenerational issue that needs a bi-partisan long term approach to fix.

Demanding parents be "accountable" solves nothing.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

I'm saying as a society (and government) we can do better to help children unfortunate to be trapped in that cycle.

Constantly schreeching "Its the parents" does fix the cycle. It's a multigenerational issue that needs a bi-partisan long term approach to fix.

Demanding parents be "accountable" solves nothing.

Abdicating personal responsibility and using the govt as a surrogate is exactly how we ended up in this mess. Also I'm not demanding parents be "accountable", that requires enforcement. I'm asking why poor adults should be "less accountable" in your eyes.. Your argument seems to be that it is societies responsibility to raise kids correctly.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Not sure if people are aware, but the role of the family vs the role of the state is a key tenet in the capitalism v socialism/communism conversation.

Karl Marx said as much In the Communist Manifesto of 1848, in which he called for the abolition of the family. The family was already absent among the proletariat, Marx and his co-author Friedrich Engels wrote, and among the bourgeoisie, the family was a mere “money relation.”

Most importantly, Marx said that communism would ensure that children would be educated by the state and not by their parents. Communists, he wrote in the Manifesto, would “rescue education from the influence of the ruling class.” The making of the “New Man” was the priority, and the family was an obstacle.

Socialism and Family

Black Lives Matter’s financial controversies has the organization back in the news, and has renewed interest in Marxism in general, particularly its attacks on the family. And with good reason. Not only are the BLM Global Network Foundation—the mothership of BLM—and Marx at war with the most...

www.heritage.org

 

[juju]

Abdicating personal responsibility and using the govt as a surrogate is exactly how we ended up in this mess. Also I'm not demanding parents be "accountable", that requires enforcement. I'm asking why poor adults should be "less accountable" in your eyes.. Your argument seems to be that it is societies responsibility to raise kids correctly.

Abdicating responsibility lol - nothing to do with stagnant wages or out of control house prices or the wealth gap.
Bitching it's the parents does absolutely nothing to solve anything & is Newstalk ZB talkback corny.

Feeding kids in school is not parents abdicating responsibility. It's one small measure to improve the quality of life and eduction for our most vulnerable children
There is no magic bullet - it's a number of measures to raise the bar for all.

Prioritising getting kids nutritious food and a good education should be a priority & a merely start.
Yet just this week they government set aside 213m for a tax break for a new vape & Act policticise school lunches.

Is it really that hard to confront your outlook of life might not be transferable to every member of society?

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Abdicating responsibility lol - nothing to do with stagnant wages or out of control house prices or the wealth gap.
Bitching it's the parents does absolutely nothing to solve anything & is Newstalk ZB talkback corny.

A giant strawman to avoid the topic at hand. So according to you poor people are entitled to less accountability because of "stagnant wages or out of control house prices or the wealth gap"

Feeding kids in school is not parents abdicating responsibility. It's one small measure to improve the quality of life and eduction for our most vulnerable children
There is no magic bullet - it's a number of measures to raise the bar for all.

I literally posted about Japanese nutritional EDUCATION in schools and said it was a good idea LOL. If you read it, you might understand the policy and why it works.

Prioritising getting kids nutritious food and a good education should be a priority & a merely start.
Yet just this week they government set aside 213m for a tax break for a new vape & Act policticise school lunches.

Cool thats entirely unrelated to this logic train, although smoking is again, an education issue.

Is it really that hard to confront your outlook of life might not be transferable to every member of society?

Sure, if you are severely mentally or physically disabled. Or have extensive medical conditions. Otherwise you are just stupid and / or lazy.

 

[juju]

A giant strawman to avoid the topic at hand. So according to you poor people are entitled to less accountability because of "stagnant wages or out of control house prices or the wealth gap"



I literally posted about Japanese nutritional EDUCATION in schools and said it was a good idea LOL. If you read it, you might understand the policy and why it works.



Cool thats entirely unrelated to this logic train, although smoking is again, an education issue.



Sure, if you are severely mentally or physically disabled. Or have extensive medical conditions. Otherwise you are just stupid and / or lazy.

I was just commenting the blame the parents routine is laughable with the complexity of a society & how the government can address it over generations.

Let's go around and tell people to harden up and join the army and see what happens.

You should worried how many traits you exhibition of fragile masculinity you show. - the schtick about soy milk is a bit cringe.

 

[juju]

A giant strawman to avoid the topic at hand. So according to you poor people are entitled to less accountability because of "stagnant wages or out of control house prices or the wealth gap"

How is feeding kids lunch and improving eduction less accountability?

Less Accountability, Parents - seem like stupid catch phrases.

You really like an argument dont you

 

[MaybeTop8]

Whataboutism at it's finest. I agree, Pokies and Junk food also need to be in the firing line. Does not mean we cannot also complain about the tobacco industry and any policies that are making it more accessible?

It's astounding that a certain group on here are tying themselves in knots to mount some kind of defense of the indefensible.

Big Tobacco has bought out this government. And they are reaping huge rewards peddling products that kill.

I get that I'm highly unlikeable (well, the posts on here might be but really I'm a sweetheart, honest), but that doesn't affect the message. This is pure corruption in action. In front of your very eyes.

Honestly, if this was Labour or the Greens the howls of outrage and glee would be unstoppable 24 hours a day. And corruption on the left, hell yeah, I'd call it out too.

 

[MaybeTop8]

How is feeding kids lunch and improving eduction less accountability?

Less Accountability, Parents - seem like stupid catch phrases.

You really like an argument dont you

It's a smokescreen to cover up the fact that man made climate change is real and this government is utterly corrupt.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

How is feeding kids lunch and improving eduction less accountability?

Less Accountability, Parents - seem like stupid catch phrases.

You really like an argument dont you

What are you smoking? I might like an argument but at least I can follow one.

You are arguing against yourself as you can’t keep track of the conversation.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

It's astounding that a certain group on here are tying themselves in knots to mount some kind of defense of the indefensible.

Who was trying to defend the position regarding smoking?

I get that I'm highly unlikeable (well, the posts on here might be but really I'm a sweetheart, honest), but that doesn't affect the message. This is pure corruption in action. In front of your very eyes.

Shock to some, but your politics has nothing to do with likability or lack thereof. I rather enjoy your input.

Honestly, if this was Labour or the Greens the howls of outrage and glee would be unstoppable 24 hours a day. And corruption on the left, hell yeah, I'd call it out too.

Tbf nothing remains in the news cycle that long.

 

[juju]

What are you smoking? I might like an argument but at least I can follow one.

You are arguing against yourself as you can’t keep track of the conversation.

No it's really pretty simple... I'll spell it out in a way you might understand
crying "ITs ThE PArentS" to a complex societal issue won't every solve anything with society - it will get you laughed at.

Good for you for supporting lunches in school.