Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[MaybeTop8]

Yeah I’m not entirely sure why anyone should consider Bernard Hickey the voice of reason. Just another economist who will jump the fence with his opinions at every opportunity.

Probably because he holds power to account. Unlike the right wing echo chambers on here.

 

[MaybeTop8]

The same Bernard Hickey, who only six months ago complained we weren't borrowing enough for infrastructure including roads is now complaining that we're building roads.

Is our aversion to debt holding us back? - Asia Pacific Infrastructure

Thanks largely to decades of underinvestment, New Zealand’s government debt is actually quite low, but when faced with a $100 billion infrastructure deficit, The Kaka Editor Bernard Hickey suggests borrowing more could be the fastest and cheapest solution echo adrotate_group(33, 0, 0, 0)...

www.infrastructurenews.co.nz

including roads. Your words MikeT12, yet again.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Sorry, but you've the one assuming things..... I've voted for which party I think would be best for the country at any particular time meaning I've voted for Labour more than any other party over the last 36 years.

Again, I'll ask you the same question you avoided before (just slightly reworded).... why do you think that a CGT on shares is fair when it would negatively affect people saving for their first house when using KiwiSaver as a tool to get their deposit? I'll help you out... a couple on the medium household income of $125,000 PA saving up for a deposit over 15 years using KiwiSaver would have $180,000 saved up for their deposit (if they were in a growth fund with 3% employee and 3% taxed employer contributions at 5% after tax and fees). Since 40% of that is untaxed capital growth in shares meaning $72,000 is currently untaxed but tax that @ 30% and their deposit drops down to $155,000. At an average savings rate of $12,000 PA, and you've just made them wait another three years before they can buy their first house... all because you think a CGT is "fair".

The problem with a CGT is it doesn't just target the "already wealthy and mega landlords" but will keep the middle class locked in. An employee in KiwiSaver on $80,000 PA contributing 3% and their employer also contributing 3% (which then is taxed) in a growth fund at 5% PA after tax and fees (according to the sorted.org calculator) would have just under $235,000 to retire on. Because 40% of that is made up from capital gains on shares, that means that, at the moment, $90,000 is untaxed. By putting a CGT on that, you've just meant this person's weekly income from their KiwiSaver account has dropped from $180.80 PW to $157.70 PW.

An inheritance tax (on estates over $500,000) with the reinstatement of gift duties would be far better at reducing the intergenerational wealth transfer than a CGT. For example, in NZ, the average amount of wealth that each Baby Boomer will transfer between now and 2050 is just over $1.4 million in NZD while, in the US, which has a CGT, the average transfer amount is $1.75 million in NZD per Boomer for that same period. By way of comparison, in the UK which has an inheritance tax, the average amount in NZD that each Boomer will transfer is just over $610,000 after tax.

As for the article you posted, of course tax accountants want a CGT introduced.... it will mean more money for them as they come up with new schemes for the rich to avoid paying it.

What is interesting as that in 2000, the then General Manager for Tax Policy for the IRD, Robin Oliver, prepared a paper on Capital Gains Tax which outlined five key points which any party wanting to have a CGT in their tax policy for an election would need to address. Each time that Labour has since tried to campaign on a CGT, it has only provided information on one of them (shown bolded) while ignoring the rest....

· whether the tax base needs to be indexed for inflation;
· the timing of recognition of gains and the extent to which tax can be levied on anaccrual basis (and if on a realised basis, as is likely, the definition of “disposal” or“ realisation” is critical) and how to account for capital increases through capital expenditure;
· the ambit of any such tax, including the treatment of personal assets such as including residences;
· the treatment of capital losses;
· the appropriate rate of tax.

Think of the third one for a moment. Two identical houses are purchased at the same time by a landlord for the same price (say $600K) in the mid 2010's. He spends $5,000 on each bringing them up to the HHS. One, he doesn't alter but the other he spends $50K putting on an extra bedroom and bathroom. Ten years later, he sells both. The unaltered house has had a capital gain of $150,000 meaning, if the tax rate for a CGT was 33%, he would net $100,000 profit. If the second house had a capital gain of $210,000, he would $140,000 profit. But he hasn't because the added value he added to the house was $50,000.... his real capital gain after tax on a house that went up in value partly on the improvements, he made to it is only $90,000.

But, Labour never gave us any detail on how the value of improvements would work, nor how it would be indexed for inflation, nor the timing of recognition of gains, nor the treatment of capital losses nor the rate that a CGT would be set at.

Until a party is willing to let us know these things BEFORE we vote, I wouldn't vote for them. As much as I dislike a wealth tax (because it's an inefficient way of raising revenue) at least the Greens and the Māori Party gave us enough information to vote on them.... Labour has never done that when campaigning for a CGT.

And how much would houses have gone up or down during that time if we had a CGT Mike? Any idea? For example if it deterred speculators and rampant greedy landlords (trigger warning - oh, too late) houses might actually be cheaper, offsetting your estimated losses on cgt against shares.



Rampant self interest and greed is the reason why we don't have one.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Selling off nz, everything we own. Again.

Neoliberal ideology rampant. Again.

And you lot dance on the head of a pin to defend the indefensible. We're being sold out, sold off. Wealth extraction in the extreme. Regressive, destructive mob who don't give a fck about New Zealand or New Zealanders.

Government drops further hints it's open to selling Kiwibank

The Kiwibank board has been asked to come up with ideas to grow the bank.

www.nzherald.co.nz

 

[miket12]

including roads. Your words MikeT12, yet again.

Dah…. Within article on infrastructure, Hickey calls for more funding to “extend infrastructure such as water and roads.” His words…. Try again.

 

[miket12]

And how much would houses have gone up or down during that time if we had a CGT Mike? Any idea? For example if it deterred speculators and rampant greedy landlords (trigger warning - oh, too late) houses might actually be cheaper, offsetting your estimated losses on cgt against shares.

View attachment 8361

Rampant self interest and greed is the reason why we don't have one.

And yet house values and rents are going up in countries that have one while in NZ, both are going down.

And yet again, you’ve totally ignored the impact a CGT will have on everyone who isn’t extremely rich.

 

[MaybeTop8]

How about those tax cuts for the already rich eh?

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

 

[Noitall]

Can’t believe nobody has commented on the potential politician pedophile ring in the 80’s that’s may have been uncovered

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Try getting a specialist appointment. Try getting a doctor's appointment. People are dying on waiting lists

'Out of control': Numbers waiting too long for specialist appointments reach 60,000

The number of people waiting too long for surgery and treatment is also growing.

www.nzherald.co.nz

At least 85,000 people each year turned away from seeing specialists, some dying as result

One general practitioner said they'd managed a heart patient "into the grave" because she could not get the care she needed.

www.rnz.co.nz

Cant read the first link paywalled. 2nd link, the only "evidence" is this..

The study, done in collaboration with General Practice New Zealand, found 14.2 percent of people, about 85,000, were declined specialist care even though their GP referred them.
__________

The government had announced $30 million to increase access to radiology services and ensure that primary health providers could refer patients directly, rather than waiting for a specialist assessment, he said.

The issue seems to be bottle necking diagnostic testing via having to go through specialists.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

How about those tax cuts for the already rich eh?

you link an article where Labour increased the taxes massively on the rich and poor (not indexing tax bands) and child poverty went up and they didn’t achieve their targets. What’s the actual point you’re trying to prove here? Wont middle and low income earners paying lower taxes benefit?

Selling off nz, everything we own. Again.

Is kiwibank vital infrastructure? Has it kept the Aussie banks profits down? Can it even do business banking?

 

[Cces]

In other insignificant news, Liz Gunn has said NZ Loyal is folding after receiving over 400k in donations. The cookers, who probably voted for Advance NZ in 2020, are losing their shit. When will they learn?
Grifters guna grift

 

[Union Blues]

Darleen Tana was a Green Party list MP, list MP's shouldn't be able to stay in Parliament when they are no longer members of the Party that they piggy backed their way into the tax payer funded "trough".

 

[MaybeTop8]

you link an article where Labour increased the taxes massively on the rich and poor (not indexing tax bands) and child poverty went up and they didn’t achieve their targets. What’s the actual point you’re trying to prove here? Wont middle and low income earners paying lower taxes benefit?


Is kiwibank vital infrastructure? Has it kept the Aussie banks profits down? Can it even do business banking?

Of course it can. In fact it does amazingly well.

Regulation would keep the Aussie banks profits down but that's against the ideology of neoliberalism

 

[Union Blues]

Of course it can. In fact it does amazingly well.

Regulation would keep the Aussie banks profits down but that's against the ideology of neoliberalism

Just means they'd have to funnel their profits back home through the Aussie owned supermarkets and hardware stores.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Can’t believe nobody has commented on the potential politician pedophile ring in the 80’s that’s may have been uncovered

What'd I miss during my firehose rants?

 

[Noitall]

What'd I miss during my firehose rants?

The Post

www.thepost.co.nz

 

[MaybeTop8]

The Post

www.thepost.co.nz

Horrible stuff, and so deeply ingrained for decades, causing so much misery and hurt.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

The Post

www.thepost.co.nz

‘Ultimately none of the allegations of organised group abuse in state care settings described above were able to be substantiated by direct evidence’

What’s there to discuss

 

[Noitall]

Horrible stuff, and so deeply ingrained for decades, causing so much misery and hurt.

Thought the chap I saw on the news hit the nail on the head. Said if they can give all that money to landlords, they can compensate these people appropriately or words to that effect. Not that any money could repair some of their traumas

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Thought the chap I saw on the news hit the nail on the head. Said if they can give all that money to landlords, they can compensate these people appropriately or words to that effect. Not that any money could repair some of traumas

Who’s giving money to landlords?

You mean they are not taking as much off them so they pay the same as every other business now - there’s a difference

And the bigger question - is there still news on TV?