I hope you aren't suggesting taxing the high performing clubs more
NRL Potential Rookie Draft in the NRL
- Thread starter WahsaurusRex
- Start date
NZWarriors.com
Reducing inequalityI hope you aren't suggesting taxing the high performing clubs more
What’s your suggestion, free lunches for the poor clubs?
NZWarriors.com
If you would like to remove these advertisements, please do so by registering a free account
John Nick
Contributor
Do you think that the discussion about a draft is about saving the Tigers.
No of course it's not about one club.
It's about the best for the competition and evening out the competition.
We hear everyday on here and everywhere about the Roosters salary SOMBRERO.
Discussions are obviously required
I agree. And when would a player need to enter the draft? At what age group or level? Is it when they want to have any association with a club? For us where would it be -
NSW cup, Harold Matthews, Jersey Flegg, SG Ball, Under-15 academy?
NZWarriors.com
If you would like to remove these advertisements, please do so by registering a free account
John Nick
Contributor
These are stuff that needs to be discussed.
I am not certain but am open for discussion.
Keeping all options open.
The system we have isn't perfect when we have people saying regularly that the cap isn't working
This is exactly why we need a draft. Without it, everyone is playing a zero sum game.
What will the draft do that the salary cap currently isn't doing? Clubs can't sign everyone and hold a pool of talent at the moment. I get the discussion but it seems a tad pointless.
NZWarriors.com
If you would like to remove these advertisements, please do so by registering a free account
Salaries for rookies aren't high enough to force them to live in a different city. Some players are keen on that for their own development (i.e. look at all the NZ juniors the flock across the ditch). But you can't pay a player 80k and tell them they have to go live in Canberra. Doesn't work like that. It works in US sports because in the NBA, for example, rookie salaries start at around a $1m per year and go up to $8m per year. Young players aren't turning that down.
As soon as this happens, clubs lose incentive to spend money developing junior talent, so the NRL will have fork out millions every year to replace this.
As soon as this happens, clubs lose incentive to spend money developing junior talent, so the NRL will have fork out millions every year to replace this.
John Nick
Contributor
A rookie draft isn't going to stop the Roosters from being a free agency destination of choice. They're the NRL equivalent of a big market team like the Lakers, they'll always be a club that benefits from a glamourous location & a long history of success.
The competitiveness theory ignores the fact that the competitions with drafts like the NFL and NBA all have Wests Tigers equivalents and in fact the draft encourages bad teams to be worse.
And if the concern is the same teams winning it all the time,
Just in the equivalent NRL era.
6x Champion N.E Patriots,
3x KC Chiefs (and counting)
3x Denver Broncos
2x Bucs, Giants, Ravens.
6x Lakers,
5x SA Spurs,
4x GSW Warriors etc.
3x Heat
[/QUOTE]
So is just saying NO to a draft system going to stop those suggesting it.
Maybe for the time being but its head will pop up again sooner or later.
All I am saying since the topic was raised is lets have the discussion.
Otherwise we will forever have rumblings in the background.
The topic has been doing the RL rounds ever since I started following the ARL/NRL.
Surely theres somethings to be learnt & improved on from other systems like NFL.
AFL have been running one for 40+ years .Started back in 1981 when it was the VFL.
In reverse finishing order each team had 2 picks from interstate clubs.
Been modernised in the meantime but much the same principal.
Nobody in that code calling for it to be canned.As far as I know.(someone will find the odd one).
Last edited:
NZWarriors.com
If you would like to remove these advertisements, please do so by registering a free account
Christchurch_Warrior
Contributor
I am somewhat on the fence about a rookie draft. I would like to see more details. If it helps other teams get to a grand final then that is a good thing. In the last 10 years there has only been 2 grand finals that does not have either Melbourne, Penrith or both.
Penrith lately because they got their house in order. They have a massive junior nursery.
Melbourne Storm. Ultra consistent, managed well, coached well, use their cap well. No junior nursery of note.
Two completely different scenarios for clubs really but the main point is they are well run. If the problem is lifting clubs up then perhaps replicating what is working in successful clubs is a better option. Would the Storm or Penrith pay $900k for one of their players to leave? (as rumoured with the Tigers) If a club can't replicate one of the above clubs or some amalgamation of the two you would have to ask if that club is really viable long term ie too many Sydney clubs.
3 votes for yes on the poll but no real indication of what the problem having a draft would solve and how it would actually do that.
13 votes for no and many valid reasons and concerns to why it wouldn't work for the NRL.
I think this is one of those cool to debate issues but when it comes to the reality of having one it is found to be quite impractical, difficult to implement and would create more issues than it potential was bought in to try and solve.
I hate this idea for the NRL - how do you get to be a rookie? is the first question... would that mean recruitment from a club underage team or from highschool or what? In the US you have the college sport tier which is its own national comp ... etc etc. plus it would absolutely disincentivise development - and you also don't know where your next star might come from anyway, maybe from outside the system like touch or union etc.
NZWarriors.com
If you would like to remove these advertisements, please do so by registering a free account
- Thread starter
- #38
Perhaps I should have the question posed by the thread more focused on competitive balance, with a draft being a possible option..
In the NFL, teams can get compensatory picks for lost free agents. These are tacked onto the end of the draft rounds; depending on the size of the contract the leaving player signs, the higher the compensatory pick is.
For example, Christian Wilkins was drafted by the Dolphins years ago and grew into one of the better defensive linemen in the NFL, but he left to sign with the Raiders the past offseason. As a result, the Dolphins will probably get the 95th, 96th, or 97th pick in the draft next year (After the 32nd Pick in the Third Round)
I reckon we could bring something loosely based on that without a draft but with just $ compensation, perhaps with the caveat that the extra money must go back into junior development.
As an example, Blaize Talagi has been in the Eels pathways since at least 2020 (We'll call it January). Since the Eels tried to keep him and they finished 15th this year, the Panthers would have to pay Parramatta $1500 for every month Blaize spent in the Eels system, so $88,500, that Parra must put right back into their pathways
Or, in the case of the Tigers signing Jahrome Luai, since the Panthers won the prem, the Tigers only have to pay Penrith $100 for each month he spent in their pathways. So something around $24,000
Maybe the amounts are too little or should be scaled up so worse teams are getting more. It's just an example, but regardless, those numbers could really build up.
Teams are further incentivised to improve their junior development so they don't have to look elsewhere and pay fees for players, and so that they can start bringing in money from fees for any players of their own. You also don't run the risk of teams tanking.
Another plus is we dont have to hear Brian Fletcher or Ivan bitch about getting nothing back for all the players Penrith produce each time one of their players fucks off lol
Just one idea
In the NFL, teams can get compensatory picks for lost free agents. These are tacked onto the end of the draft rounds; depending on the size of the contract the leaving player signs, the higher the compensatory pick is.
For example, Christian Wilkins was drafted by the Dolphins years ago and grew into one of the better defensive linemen in the NFL, but he left to sign with the Raiders the past offseason. As a result, the Dolphins will probably get the 95th, 96th, or 97th pick in the draft next year (After the 32nd Pick in the Third Round)
I reckon we could bring something loosely based on that without a draft but with just $ compensation, perhaps with the caveat that the extra money must go back into junior development.
As an example, Blaize Talagi has been in the Eels pathways since at least 2020 (We'll call it January). Since the Eels tried to keep him and they finished 15th this year, the Panthers would have to pay Parramatta $1500 for every month Blaize spent in the Eels system, so $88,500, that Parra must put right back into their pathways
Or, in the case of the Tigers signing Jahrome Luai, since the Panthers won the prem, the Tigers only have to pay Penrith $100 for each month he spent in their pathways. So something around $24,000
Maybe the amounts are too little or should be scaled up so worse teams are getting more. It's just an example, but regardless, those numbers could really build up.
Teams are further incentivised to improve their junior development so they don't have to look elsewhere and pay fees for players, and so that they can start bringing in money from fees for any players of their own. You also don't run the risk of teams tanking.
Another plus is we dont have to hear Brian Fletcher or Ivan bitch about getting nothing back for all the players Penrith produce each time one of their players fucks off lol
Just one idea
NZWarriors.com
If you would like to remove these advertisements, please do so by registering a free account
mt.wellington
Contributor
This topic is always brought up annually by fans seeking to replicate other sports or even the ledger for fledgling teams. There are some serious reasons why an NRL draft will never succeed in its current form.
All NRL clubs independently fund their own junior pathways systems with the goal of producing NRL quality players that will play for the club developing them. Should the NRL seek to enforce a draft system they must be prepared to fund every team from Harold Matthews to NRL. If they go ahead and expand the competition to 20 teams as they hope we are talking about a minimum 100 teams and some 3000-3200 players. That's not even looking at NRLW and their pathways. Should the NRL decide to not fund the pathways systems in their entirety then there will be no incentive for clubs to continue funding it themselves when any player they develop will in all likelihood be drafted elsewhere.
People also forget the 1991 NSWRL draft that was successfully challenged in a class action lawsuit brought before the courts by 127 players which had the draft abolished and from a New Zealand perspective you also have the Tony Kemp's restraint of trade lawsuit in 1987 that allowed him to leave to shackles of the NZRL and join the Knights. Both legal precedents can and will be used to allow players to dictate their own terms. You also have the very real threat of players simply deciding to switch codes as a get around which is something that league as a sport can ill afford.
Its foolish to try compare our sport with any American sport and their draft system. I can give you 10-30 million US reasons why that draft works and why players for the most part buy into it. I dont see juniors being happy to switch countries and spend 3 seasons in Auckland for $80,000. The US also enjoys a very competitive and substantially funded pathways system via the university teams and programs that no Australasian system could ever hope to replicate. Ever.
As stated, in its current form it will never work and the NRL will have one hell of a battle trying to implement it, get it legal and most importantly be in a financial position to fund. A draft is many years away from ever taking off...
All NRL clubs independently fund their own junior pathways systems with the goal of producing NRL quality players that will play for the club developing them. Should the NRL seek to enforce a draft system they must be prepared to fund every team from Harold Matthews to NRL. If they go ahead and expand the competition to 20 teams as they hope we are talking about a minimum 100 teams and some 3000-3200 players. That's not even looking at NRLW and their pathways. Should the NRL decide to not fund the pathways systems in their entirety then there will be no incentive for clubs to continue funding it themselves when any player they develop will in all likelihood be drafted elsewhere.
People also forget the 1991 NSWRL draft that was successfully challenged in a class action lawsuit brought before the courts by 127 players which had the draft abolished and from a New Zealand perspective you also have the Tony Kemp's restraint of trade lawsuit in 1987 that allowed him to leave to shackles of the NZRL and join the Knights. Both legal precedents can and will be used to allow players to dictate their own terms. You also have the very real threat of players simply deciding to switch codes as a get around which is something that league as a sport can ill afford.
Its foolish to try compare our sport with any American sport and their draft system. I can give you 10-30 million US reasons why that draft works and why players for the most part buy into it. I dont see juniors being happy to switch countries and spend 3 seasons in Auckland for $80,000. The US also enjoys a very competitive and substantially funded pathways system via the university teams and programs that no Australasian system could ever hope to replicate. Ever.
As stated, in its current form it will never work and the NRL will have one hell of a battle trying to implement it, get it legal and most importantly be in a financial position to fund. A draft is many years away from ever taking off...
John Nick
Contributor
Thanks mate and a great explanation with examples
Food for thought.
Ignoring the concept completely isn't something we should be doing
