NRL NRL Expansion

[Worried2Death]

This is like when Hawkeye and BJ reunited 20 years later.

Thank you for your service gentlemen.

 

[Tohu’s_Knees]

They will be on the same salary cap as everyone else. If they offer TMM $1.5M then they are not going to have much left to get any other NZ or Aussie players if the going rate is over one million for each import.

Wrighty, the vast majority of there players will be home grown. They’ll only need a handful of Mercs’. Otherwise what’s the point of even having them in the league.
Think of them as a farm lol

And I mean this with the greatest of respect. One of the good things about PNG being poor and underdeveloped…… you don’t have to pay them much. Comparatively.

NZ rugby has taken advantage of Pacific Islanders for years like this.

And for a half decent “mid level “half, yeah a ridiculous salary is probably needed. Not all the mercs will get salaries like that. Come on.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Wrighty, the vast majority of there players will be home grown. They’ll only need a handful of Mercs’. Otherwise what’s the point of even having them in the league.
Think of them as a farm lol

And I mean this with the greatest of respect. One of the good things about PNG being poor and underdeveloped…… you don’t have to pay them much. Comparatively.

NZ rugby has taken advantage of Pacific Islanders for years like this.

And for a half decent “mid level “half, yeah a ridiculous salary is probably needed. Not all the mercs will get salaries like that. Come on.

They cannot over pay mercs to that degree. It will blow up the cap. Im guessing there will be a gazillion 3rd party exemptions.

 

[Akkerz]

Good points on this subject. This is going to be interesting going forward. PNG has plenty of natural resources mainly undeveloped & I can see the reasoning for Aus to be putting funds into the country's development overall. Getting the people onside with an NRL team would be very helpful to Aus. The risk of that particular venture stuffing up the NRL overall worries me a lot.
Loyalty can be bought but only until a better offer or bigger threat comes along.

 

[JustLikeStartingOver]

Would put the mortgage on the PNG side won’t win an away game for like 3 years, their players will be running amok on every road trip, Townsville will seem like las vegas when they get back to the mainland.

Home games, they’ll get ref managed to a few wins here and there, crazy crowds etc NRL can't afford for them to be complete doormats.

A problem will come when they produce their own legitimately good players, who then get their heads turned and want to move to Sydney.

Agree as above, 75% of their top 30 would be minimum salary (local) players, then they can go spend wild sums on the rest, someone will take the money, retirement deals, blokes who pissed it all away on the pokies, reserve graders who are blocked.

Can they just be good enough that they aren’t a joke and turn off for viewers and crowds. Super rugby really suffered from introducing teams like the kings, rebels, sunwolves that no one had any interest in watching.

 

[Tohu’s_Knees]

They cannot over pay mercs to that degree. It will blow up the cap. Im guessing there will be a gazillion 3rd party exemptions.

Of course they can bro, the difference is the quality of players they’ll get in return. We’ve already said that the real elite players will never go there.

I’ll explain: Say Jahrome Hughes was on the market right now. He’s on a reported 900k at Melbourne. How much you reckon we’d pay for him? Or any other club besides arguably Penrith, Manly and Paramatta?
I think he’d easily fetch 1.2 million. Easily.
Now how much would it take to get him to PNG? 2.2-2.7 million, plus the tax breaks? That will blow out the cap…….

As opposed to say Te Maire Martin? A genuinely good half, he ain’t Jahrome Hughes though. He wouldn’t be on more than 600k at the Warriors, surely. That 1.2 million that “would” typically go to Hughes would look very juicy to a player of TMMs level. Plus the tax cuts elevate that to 1.7 million in NZ.

Pretty much every club has 1 or 2 players on or near 1 million. The difference for PNG is the quality of players they’re getting in return.
In this example for 1.2 million instead of Jahrome Hughes, they’d get TMM. What choice will they have.

Putting aside marital status……

(I’m not talking about individual players here. I talking about X level player vs X level player)

 

[Tohu’s_Knees]

A problem will come when they produce their own legitimately good players, who then get their heads turned and want to move to Sydney.

Honestly bro, I’d say that’s what 90% of the purpose of this PNG thing is all about from an NRL perspective…… Another player pool.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Off course they can bro, the difference is the quality of players they’ll get in return. We’ve already said that the real elite players will never go there.

I’ll explain: Say Jahrome Hughes was on the market right now. He’s on a reported 900k at Melbourne. How much you reckon we’d pay for him? Or any other club besides arguably Penrith, Manly and Paramatta?
I think he’d easily fetch 1.2 million. Easily.
Now how much would it take to get him to PNG? 2.2-2.7 million, plus the tax breaks? That will blow out the cap…….

As opposed to say Te Maire Martin? A genuinely good half, he ain’t Jahrome Hughes though. He wouldn’t be on more than 600k at the Warriors, surely. That 1.2 million that “would” typically go to Hughes would look very juicy to a player of TMMs level. Plus the tax cuts elevate that to 1.7 million in NZ.

Pretty much every club has 1 or 2 players on or near 1 million. The difference for PNG is the quality of players they’re getting in return.
In this example for 1.2 million instead of Jahrome Hughes, they’d get TMM. What choice will they have.

Putting aside marital status……

(I’m not talking about individual players here. I talking about X level player vs X level player)

I get the argument but there's 30 players to get paid. 2 Mercs on 1.5mil = 3mill. 25% of the cap for 6% of your roster. Let alone having 4/30 eating up half your cap. I just dont think cap manipulation will appeal to the NRL. Too overtly manipulative.

 

[Tohu’s_Knees]

I get the argument but there's 30 players to get paid. 2 Mercs on 1.5mil = 3mill. 25% of the cap for 6% of your roster. Let alone having 4/30 eating up half your cap. I just dont think cap manipulation will appeal to the NRL. Too overtly manipulative.

Or you could get 3 good mercs for 1 million each, plus tax breaks. Not elite, good…….

There’s loads of ways you could do it above board. You gotta also remember the locals are probably going to be paid fuck all. (High for there national standards though)

 

[MrFrankWhite]

You gotta also remember the locals are probably going to be paid fuck all. (High for there national standards though)

I dont think this will be the case for any directly employed by NRL or even the club. Reputational risk consultants will point out any allegations of exploitation will have severely negatively PR results. DFAT will be advising on this. (your MFAT)

 

[Matiunz]

Conspiracy theory time, NRL take the government cash to set up the player pathways to increase the player pool, set up a decent compound for travelling teams and potentially an upgraded PNG stadium while increasing the profile. Fast forward 10years (or less) if it hasn’t worked they have Brisbane 3 ready to go to relocate team which has given the Dolphins enough time to establish itself

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Conspiracy theory time, NRL take the government cash to set up the player pathways to increase the player pool, set up a decent compound for travelling teams and potentially an upgraded PNG stadium while increasing the profile. Fast forward 10years (or less) if it hasn’t worked they have Brisbane 3 ready to go to relocate team which has given the Dolphins enough time to establish itself

Contingencies are real man. All of govt wil be advising on this so this is a real consideration. Great point.

 

[WahsaurusRex]

Conspiracy theory time, NRL take the government cash to set up the player pathways to increase the player pool, set up a decent compound for travelling teams and potentially an upgraded PNG stadium while increasing the profile. Fast forward 10years (or less) if it hasn’t worked they have Brisbane 3 ready to go to relocate team which has given the Dolphins enough time to establish itself

Is that even a conspiracy theory lol, Seems far more likely than the team becoming self-sufficient after 10 years, even with continued hand-holding.

I do wonder, who would own all of this, all said and done? Would it all be the PNG Govts? Would the facilities and compound become theirs but the team itself is managed as an asset of the NRL/The Commision?

 

[mrblonde]

Fundamentally league creates individual stars which flows into marketing and hype when players move clubs, which all drives engagement and interest.

Rugby is about no one being biggest than the game/ team and loyalty to the team. Individualism is suppressed.

NRL has 16 team brands and perhaps 100 star player brands. Union has 5 super rugby brands and about 3-4 real star player brands. This highlights where NRL has so much more engagement and drives interest in the opposition team which union doesn’t have. This is where kids want to be like the star individuals which league offers plenty of.

I was drawn big time into league about 2008 with radio sport and Steve Price on the radio every week discussing the game. The accessibility of league players is light years ahead of union.

Firstly, I think all expansion clubs are going to have to hit the ground running performance-wise (ie not be nailed on wooden spooners in their first 2-3 seasons, at least make a decent attempt at finals football). I don't believe any Christchurch/PNG/Darwin/Wherever fans are going to be as patient, fan-for-life as the NRL would like to think. And if they don't grow to like the NRL enough to do as I and I'd honestly expect a clear majority do and follow every game, the NRL loses those fans as quickly as it gains them.
PNG and Christchurch might present great stories (PNG, rugby league is their national sport, Christchurch spirit from 2011 earthquake etc etc), but if they can't get the results....

I also think rugby league offers star individuals and stories better than rugby union, in both good and bad ways. I don't recall rugby union having as much focus as the NRL has on Nicho Hynes right now and his apparant inability/unwillingness to step up in big games. Is he the Only Reason the Sharks are, what, 0-11? in Finals? Or just the Biggest Reason given his position and pay packet?
The S o O, commentators complained about the lack of hostility between the teams. Yes, we all know it's largely not genuine (or at least not as bad as would sound in the media), but learn to act, say "Those banana benders are so ugly even sheep wouldn't do the dirty with them!"-type stuff to media, get the public riled up, talking about the game and jeez isn't Walshie a nutbag? etc..
You can blame NZR for Super Rugby having no star indiduals/no real controversy/interesting points to present to fans. The closest you get to individual stardom is players having weird haircuts (but nothing as weird as Kaufusi's! ) and daring to speak te reo in interviews. Shit, just look how quickly the "Civil War In New Zealand Rugby" turned to serious peace pipe smoking...

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

With the upcoming expansion, will the finals move to a 10 team playoff?

Half the comp playing finals is good for PR.

 

[Wrighty]

With the upcoming expansion, will the finals move to a 10 team playoff?

Half the comp playing finals is good for PR.

Great call. I would be in favour of that. NHL has like 30 teams and 16 make the playoffs.

 

[Matiunz]

With the upcoming expansion, will the finals move to a 10 team playoff?

Half the comp playing finals is good for PR.

Have heard a format mooted which would see top 6 through to finals round 2, teams 7-10 play an elimination final and then the winners slot into positions 7 & 8 and the finals continue as we currently know them

 

[mrblonde]

With the upcoming expansion, will the finals move to a 10 team playoff?

Half the comp playing finals is good for PR.

Not sure about that.
Good for interest, maaaybe... And let's not forget the almighty TV revenue etc...
Good for the integrity of the competition? No, I don't think so. Getting into the Finals Series needs to be a decent challange ie it's a surprise or a damn decent season when you do it. Making the finals when, frankly, you were meh and were decidely worse than the Top 4/5 teams?...Doesn't wash with me. Even when the Warriors have benefited from a Top 8 Finals system, I know what's coming and personally, I'd rather we weren't playing in the first place rather than have our last game of the season be a totally expected tonking from the Panthers/Whoever...

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Have heard a format mooted which would see top 6 through to finals round 2, teams 7-10 play an elimination final and then the winners slot into positions 7 & 8 and the finals continue as we currently know them

To maximise revenue you have the top 6 play as well in week 1. Pointless games but $$$

Something like:
F1 - 7 vs 10 (loser out)
F2 - 8 vs 9 (loser out)
F3 - 3 vs 6
F4 - 4 vs 5
Bye teams 1 and 2

F5 - winner F1 vs loser F3 (loser out)
F6 - winner F2 vs loser F4 (loser out)
F7 - 1 vs winner F3
F8 - 2 vs winner F4

F9 - winner F5 vs loser F7 (loser out)
F10 - winner F6 vs loser F8 (loser out)
Bye winner F7 and F8

SF11 - winner F9 vs winner F7 (loser out)
SF12 - winner F10 vs winner F8 (loser out)

GF - Winner SF 11 vs winner SF12

5 weeks and 13 games vs the current 4 weeks and 9 games

 

[Tohu’s_Knees]

A few good points and questions from some members…..

In regards to the long term viability of the PNG club (past ten years) funding surely wouldn’t be a problem. All going “reasonably” well (not a complete cluster fuck), once the “production line” of players is established. It wouldn’t really make much sense to cut off arguably the final link in the chain. The PNG club itself. The NRL would be desperate to keep it going. That’s what this is all about to them really…… Player pool.

If the Warriors were to leave the NRL, interest in the NRL would nosedive in NZ, and that juicy player pool would significantly shrink.

Per the article, the 600 million is broken down into 3 groups. 60 million a one off payment to the other clubs. 250 million for welfare and education purposes (grass roots/infrastructure). And 290 million (29 million per year) for football operations.

Surely that wouldn’t include the 13 million dollars the NRL gives each club in grants annually. 130 million dollars over 10 years saved/use elsewhere, it’s still allocated to PNG.

A modest 8000 average seats x $10 per x 12 games x 10 years = 9.6 million in ticket sales. I feel I’m being ridiculously modest there.

That’s not even including 10 years worth of endorsements, regardless of how modest all adds up. Before the club has to actually start purely funding itself. It’ll just keep rolling out. And long time before the money (potentially) runs out.

The ownership of the club? Now that’s a whole different issue……… I wouldn’t be opposed to the NRL itself owning it, despite the obvious conflict of interest. Surely not the PNG government.