NRL NRL Expansion

[Falcon]

While listening to the excellent Point of Difference league podcast (would be a great show to have on SKY) with Frank Endacott as a guest, he mentioned that while the Christchurch bid is working away behind the scenes, the NRL have forbid them to discuss publicly where they are at, including social media. All in all you would have to take it as a positive. It did sound like an update would be forthcoming by the end of October.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

While listening to the excellent Point of Difference league podcast (would be a great show to have on SKY) with Frank Endacott as a guest, he mentioned that while the Christchurch bid is working away behind the scenes, the NRL have forbid them to discuss publicly where they are at, including social media. All in all you would have to take it as a positive. It did sound like an update would be forthcoming by the end of October.

The NRL would be doing that because it has competing bids?

They don’t want mixed messages and confusion in the public between the bidders?

Edit: thinking about this the NrL needs to chose a bidder early to work with and pool resources behind the one group.

 

[Matiunz]

While listening to the excellent Point of Difference league podcast (would be a great show to have on SKY) with Frank Endacott as a guest, he mentioned that while the Christchurch bid is working away behind the scenes, the NRL have forbid them to discuss publicly where they are at, including social media. All in all you would have to take it as a positive. It did sound like an update would be forthcoming by the end of October.

All the bids have a non disclosure during the decision stage.
CHCH has fallen behind the pack from what I’m hearing, originally was looking like team 18 for a while before png solidified and Bears agreed to terms now puts the team 20 (if Brisbane 3 doesn’t pip them)

 

[Playdaball]

Western Bears in real trouble

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Western Bears in real trouble

Wow appears the consortium couldn’t get the finance together and they have been rejected.

NRL cutting the Bears out and dealing directly with the Perth government.

 

[WA Warrior]

Wow appears the consortium couldn’t get the finance together and they have been rejected.

NRL cutting the Bears out and dealing directly with the Perth government.

I live in Perth so I’m as biased as it gets to get a team here.
One positive after this news is our Premier has a major hard on for Rugby League so hopefully we can work something out.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Wow appears the consortium couldn’t get the finance together and they have been rejected.

NRL cutting the Bears out and dealing directly with the Perth government.

This is confronting for the South Island bid. If a group like the bears can’t make it happen then it’s a high bar and the bidders will struggle…

Interesting that the talk is the NRL might operate it directly with the Perth government chipping in. Could the NRL get the South Island consortiums to do all the donkey work, then toss them aside and go it alone?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

This could be a worry for the South Island bidders:

‘V’landys hinted at the drama in an interview on radio on Sunday when asked about the nine expansion proposals that had been submitted to the NRL.

“Look, we have run into a bit of a hiccup at the moment in relation to the bids weren’t as good as we hoped they would be, except for the Papua New Guinea bid,” V’landys said on Triple M just hours out from Sunday’s NRL grand final.


Does that indicate the South Island bids (as part of the 9) weren’t up to scratch either?

The Western Bears bid is dead: NRL severs ties with consortium after ‘low-ball’ proposal

NRL officials are privately fuming over a perceived attempt from the consortium to “low-ball” head office in the business proposal they recently submitted.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Playdaball]

Would the Newtown Jets snd Singo step up?

 

[Tohu’s_Knees]

I’ve written this before and I’ll write it again.

Why would the NRL go to Perth? There’s nothing there. It’ll be another Melbourne Storm. Which is a major problem from a “we can’t let this fail” perspective. Basically, tendered results.
It’s a 3-5 hour flight away from everyone else. It’ll be a burden on a limited player pool. Which is why the PNG and South Island bid is so important.

Must I remind everyone, Melbourne has been in the NRL for over 25 years, they’ve had all that success and they STILL don’t have any grassroots.

Just look at Australian Super Rugby. They axed the Western force in favour of the Melbourne rebels like 10 years ago or whatever it was. And the reason was commercial and lack of Wallabies wanting to go out there. The Melbourne Rebels just folded and their Wallabies pretty much went to every other team but the Force.
And the only reason the Force even exists still is because some billionaire was/is pretty much bank rolling them and stayed committed to doing so…..

There’s absolutely nothing pulling players over there other than a paycheck. How many players in the entire NRL have any sort of connection with Western Australia? I’ll boldly guess, less than 5….

A Perth team will have no choice but to ravage Super League. And get a bunch of Englishman. Maybe that’s actually the strategic goal……

The South Island bid is a little different in the sense that it’ll have plenty of Kiwis it can pull from. It will still need to supplement itself with Aussies and Englishman.
It has the added benefit of getting more money from the SKY TV deal so the finances maybe offset a little from an NRL perspective. The Fox and Nine deals will be mostly the same regardless.
If you were “Joe Kiwi” and you had a contract, same money to go to Perth or Christchurch. Where would you go? 95% will go to Christchurch.
Maybe there’s a bit of wishful thinking for the extra NZ team.

Most members will know I’m also pro PNG bid as well….. PVL the cheeky rascal had to add in there that the PNG bid is good lol. Fair enough if you’re getting a bunch of free money.

 

[WA Warrior]

I’ve written this before and I’ll write it again.

Why would the NRL go to Perth? There’s nothing there. It’ll be another Melbourne Storm. Which is a major problem from a “we can’t let this fail” perspective. Basically, tendered results.
It’s a 3-5 hour flight away from everyone else. It’ll be a burden on a limited player pool. Which is why the PNG and South Island bid is so important.

Must I remind everyone, Melbourne has been in the NRL for over 25 years, they’ve had all that success and they STILL don’t have any grassroots.

Just look at Australian Super Rugby. They axed the Western force in favour of the Melbourne rebels like 10 years ago or whatever it was. And the reason was commercial and lack of Wallabies wanting to go out there. The Melbourne Rebels just folded and their Wallabies pretty much went to every other team but the Force.
And the only reason the Force even exists still is because some billionaire was/is pretty much bank rolling them and stayed committed to doing so…..

There’s absolutely nothing pulling players over there other than a paycheck. How many players in the entire NRL have any sort of connection with Western Australia? I’ll boldly guess, less than 5….

A Perth team will have no choice but to ravage Super League. And get a bunch of Englishman. Maybe that’s actually the strategic goal……

The South Island bid is a little different in the sense that it’ll have plenty of Kiwis it can pull from. It will still need to supplement itself with Aussies and Englishman.
It has the added benefit of getting more money from the SKY TV deal so the finances maybe offset a little from an NRL perspective. The Fox and Nine deals will be mostly the same regardless.
If you were “Joe Kiwi” and you had a contract, same money to go to Perth or Christchurch. Where would you go? 95% will go to Christchurch.
Maybe there’s a bit of wishful thinking for the extra NZ team.

Most members will know I’m also pro PNG bid as well….. PVL the cheeky rascal had to add in there that the PNG bid is good lol. Fair enough if you’re getting a bunch of free money.

If Perth will be another Melbourne Storm
that is a major success no?

For the South Island side, how come the Warriors have not been able to keep a hold of the elite youngsters but you think a side starting from scratch will be able too?
Getting all these Kiwi players won’t be a given, the other teams poach Kiwi players already that have the Warriors as a choice because of the conditions and other reasons.

Perth is a great place to live as well by Aussie standards, the weather, beaches all the Australian upside.
I agree the travel would rule out some players but it’s hardly Port Moresby over here.

I’m not going to bag the South Island bid because I hope they get one eventually but given the option of Perth or Christchurch with regards to Australians, I do think Perth wins.

 

[Tohu’s_Knees]

If Perth will be another Melbourne Storm
that is a major success no?

For the South Island side, how come the Warriors have not been able to keep a hold of the elite youngsters but you think a side starting from scratch will be able too?
Getting all these Kiwi players won’t be a given, the other teams poach Kiwi players already that have the Warriors as a choice because of the conditions and other reasons.

Perth is a great place to live as well by Aussie standards, the weather, beaches all the Australian upside.
I agree the travel would rule out some players but it’s hardly Port Moresby over here.

I’m not going to bag the South Island bid because I hope they get one eventually but given the option of Perth or Christchurch with regards to Australians, I do think Perth wins.

Bro, read what I said about the Storm thing again. That’s not a success, that would be terrible.
If the Storm weren’t so successful where would they be right now? Gone……. Like the Melbourne Rebels?

The thing is, despite all their success Melbourne were losing millions for years and maybe still are. They have no grassroots, so contribute nothing to the player pool…..

Don’t you find it strange that everyone. From us, to the experts on tv to all podcasts. Comment, criticise, exalt, etc. About Melbourne and the techniques they use. How they get away with so much at the ruck. Don’t you find that strange? Everyone can see it but the NRL and their referees? Because they “push boundaries”….. that only works if the NRL (the refs) allows to work. It’s not difficult to see what Melbourne are doing…… that extra quarter second per tackle. 10.5m back for us, 9.5m back for them. It all adds up.
Hell, we complain ALL THE TIME about the refs.

The NRL will have a conflict of interest (especially if they own it themselves, which I’m not entirely against when considering the PNG bid) they won’t want this club to fail. Especially from a PR perspective not to mention financial. Which is actually a really bad thing. They’d have a vested interest to see it succeed.
Basically, the NRL would be straight up rigged. Hey, maybe it already is. Just look at Melbourne……

The Warriors not getting all the “elite talent” in regards to recruitment for the South Island bid is a good thing. As a matter of fact they’d be relying onit. Sure, it won’t be a given. But unlike Western Australia at least there’s actually a pool of players to draw from…… in WA there’s literally nothing.
It’s also a strategic move from the NRL in slowly but surely competing, putting pressure on the NZRU and Rugby union as a whole. Super rugby franchises simply cannot compete with overseas money and another NRL salary cap. And if the U20s come back. That’ll make it worse.
At the very least I hope the South Island gets a NSW/Queensland cup team. Help find the competition, especially the Warriors.

In terms of living in Perth. Absolutely….. one of my best friends works in the mine out Kalgoorlie. The misses and I flew over for a long weekend to visit one time. We met up in Perth. I’ve got nothing but good things to say about the place. I was only there for like 3 days mind you.

 

[WahsaurusRex]

‘Your bid is in the bin’: How Western Bears’ plans went south

The Western Bears expansion bid described as “outstanding” in July has now been rejected by the NRL. How did it all go so wrong?

www.smh.com.au

It’s often said a week is a long time in rugby league – but what about two months? For the Western Bears, two months must feel like an eternity.

When a consortium of West Australia businessmen in July lodged its bid document to become the NRL’s next franchise, ARL Commissioner Peter Beattie was so impressed he messaged bid chief Peter Cumins: “Your bid is outstanding. We look forward to working with you in the future.”Last Friday, Beattie had the job of breaking the news that the consortium’s apparently outstanding bid wasn’t so outstanding after all.

“Your bid is in the bin,” he told them.

The rubbish bins were collected yesterday afternoon when news broke that the ARLC hadn’t just rejected the Bears’ bid but whacked them as they walked out the door. According to chairman Peter V’landys, their “low-ball offer” was “disrespectful”. The Bears held crisis meetings on Monday in a bid to salvage the bid, but the decision had already been made. Cumins, the Cash Converters owner who has been pushing for 20 years for an NRL licence, is said to be devastated. He did not return calls, presumably living in hope that V’landys will change his mind.

On the Friday morning of Magic Round in May, V’landys told reporters that the Albanese government’s plan for a Papua New Guinea team based in Port Moresby was on the verge of collapse. He’d grown tired of bureaucrats dithering on the $600 million pledge from the Albanese, who wants a PNG team to use as geopolitical pawn in the chess game with China.

By the time the last match was kicking off on Sunday, the deal was back on.

It will surprise if the PNG isn’t finally announced on Sunday when the men’s and women’s Australian Prime Minister’s XIII teams take on the PNG PM’s XIII teams at Santos National Football in Port Moresby.

The WA bid, though, is on life support.

How did it get to this?

How did the Bears go from certain starters in 2027 to being rejected like a bad Tinder date on grand final weekend?

Within two months?

V’landys had told the WA consortium months ago to form a partnership with foundation club North Sydney, even though they had already agreed to partner with the Newtown Jets. Desperate to get into the NRL, they agreed and the Western Bears came to life. Their announcement as the NRL’s 17th team was imminent. They even had a date: October 10.

V’landys insists a weak financial position was the main problem with the bid but, if you dig deeper, it feels more like those involved didn’t know how to negotiate with the most powerful man in Australian sport. When Beattie congratulated Cumins in July, it came with a rider: that a licence fee was to be agreed upon if they were to enter the NRL. Behind the scenes, the WA bid was put together by Nick Nogarotto from business management consultancy Freshwater Strategy. Nogarotto, who did not return calls, put together the Redcliffe Dolphins’ successful bid in 2021. He’s very guarded. Redcliffe weren’t required to pay a licence fee because their licensed club guaranteed their long-term financial viability. The NRL insisted the WA bid pay a fee – about $15-20m – because they were in a rugby league outpost and their financial position wasn’t as strong as that of the Dolphins

V’landys was also blindsided by the WA bid allowing Sydney Kings owners Paul Smith and Paul Kind in as 15 per cent investors just before the document had been lodged. Smith’s head appeared on page three, but V’landys was unhappy that new investors had been included so late in the process. Disrespected, perhaps. While Smith and Kind’s Total Sports Entertainment was prepared to pay $4m if the licence was granted, V’landys couldn’t stomach the idea of them profiting from an NRL club that didn’t want to pay a licensing fee.

Neither Smith nor Kind were commenting yesterday, but the collapse of the bid isn’t their fault. On the surface, it appears a group of well-intentional and wealthy league-loving businessmen from Perth have failed to appreciate how aggressive V’landys can be. Tellingly, Cumins and V’landys have only met a few times, let alone talked to each other. The PNG bid is being negotiated by two prime ministers.

The NRL will now negotiate directly with the WA government with a view to running a new franchise themselves. They have seen how the Tasmanian government has worked hand in glove with the AFL to create the Devils, which enter the premiership in 2028. The idea of an NRL-owned franchise seems problematic, mostly because there is so much distrust within the game. But funnier things have happened. A PNG team based in another country an eight-hour flight away just replaced the Bears as rugby league’s newest team.

 

[Wrighty]

A PNG team based in another country an eight-hour flight away just replaced the Bears as rugby league’s newest team

Wait What???

can an Australian poster confirm that the flight from Sydney to Port Morseby is fricking 8 hours?

 

[Shogun]

can an Australian poster confirm that the flight from Sydney to Port Morseby is fricking 8 hours?

google Sydney to Port Moresby & click maps

 

[sballer7]

Bro, read what I said about the Storm thing again. That’s not a success, that would be terrible.
If the Storm weren’t so successful where would they be right now? Gone……. Like the Melbourne Rebels?

The thing is, despite all their success Melbourne were losing millions for years and maybe still are. They have no grassroots, so contribute nothing to the player pool…..

Don’t you find it strange that everyone. From us, to the experts on tv to all podcasts. Comment, criticise, exalt, etc. About Melbourne and the techniques they use. How they get away with so much at the ruck. Don’t you find that strange? Everyone can see it but the NRL and their referees? Because they “push boundaries”….. that only works if the NRL (the refs) allows to work. It’s not difficult to see what Melbourne are doing…… that extra quarter second per tackle. 10.5m back for us, 9.5m back for them. It all adds up.
Hell, we complain ALL THE TIME about the refs.

The NRL will have a conflict of interest (especially if they own it themselves, which I’m not entirely against when considering the PNG bid) they won’t want this club to fail. Especially from a PR perspective not to mention financial. Which is actually a really bad thing. They’d have a vested interest to see it succeed.
Basically, the NRL would be straight up rigged. Hey, maybe it already is. Just look at Melbourne……

The Warriors not getting all the “elite talent” in regards to recruitment for the South Island bid is a good thing. As a matter of fact they’d be relying onit. Sure, it won’t be a given. But unlike Western Australia at least there’s actually a pool of players to draw from…… in WA there’s literally nothing.
It’s also a strategic move from the NRL in slowly but surely competing, putting pressure on the NZRU and Rugby union as a whole. Super rugby franchises simply cannot compete with overseas money and another NRL salary cap. And if the U20s come back. That’ll make it worse.
At the very least I hope the South Island gets a NSW/Queensland cup team. Help find the competition, especially the Warriors.

In terms of living in Perth. Absolutely….. one of my best friends works in the mine out Kalgoorlie. The misses and I flew over for a long weekend to visit one time. We met up in Perth. I’ve got nothing but good things to say about the place. I was only there for like 3 days mind you.

Define literally nothing in terms of player pool? I think you are massively underestimating the comp over here. Sure it's no NSW or QLD junior comp but then what is. 12 clubs across the metro area, off the top of my head WA has the 3rd largest player pool in the country, plus 10s of thousands of kiwis and Brits choosing to reside here.

 

[Tohu’s_Knees]

Define literally nothing in terms of player pool? I think you are massively underestimating the comp over here. Sure it's no NSW or QLD junior comp but then what is. 12 clubs across the metro area, off the top of my head WA has the 3rd largest player pool in the country, plus 10s of thousands of kiwis and Brits choosing to reside here.

Ok, fair enough. Tell you what, I probably am underestimating it a little. However……..

How many NRL players and/or Wallabies has Western Australia produced? Not many, at all…… As I stated before, Australia Rugby shut down the Western Force because it wasn’t financially viable and were continuous bottom dwellers…… And if it wasn’t for Andrew Forrest, they wouldn’t even exist at all anymore. And the established Wallabies barely ever wanted to go there (look at the Rebels Wallabies, they went to the other teams). You think that’ll change with NRL players? Maybe a handful, but not much.

Perth getting a team, will result in some bullshit from the NRL to keep them relevant on the other side of Australia.
Otherwise….. shut it down PR disaster.

As opposed to a South Island team that can pick up many of Kiwi players the Warriors don’t. Just look at the NRL it’s full of Kiwis. And have pretty much direct access to arguably the best Rugby Union nursery not just in New Zealand……… The World. (I admit that begrudgingly btw) It boldly predict, it won’t be long until they’re cranking out players for…….. the player pool. Unlike Melbourne 25 years later and nothing. And extra money from the Sky TV deal no doubt.

That Perth team will be a disaster, bet you. And a complete drain on a player pool and the NRL’s resources. Why do you think there’s such an issue on money with that bid? Because 1. It’ll be expensive, and they don’t actually gain anything from it that they can’t from PNG or 2nd NZ teams.
2. Doubt they produce many players. Like Melbourne.
And 3. It’ll be a PR disaster if/when it fails.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Ok, fair enough. Tell you what, I probably am underestimating it a little. However……..

How many NRL players and/or Wallabies has Western Australia produced? Not many, at all…… As I stated before, Australia Rugby shut down the Western Force because it wasn’t financially viable and were continuous bottom dwellers…… And if it wasn’t for Andrew Forrest, they wouldn’t even exist at all anymore. And the established Wallabies barely ever wanted to go there (look at the Rebels Wallabies, they went to the other teams). You think that’ll change with NRL players? Maybe a handful, but not much.

Perth getting a team, will result in some bullshit from the NRL to keep them relevant on the other side of Australia.
Otherwise….. shut it down PR disaster.

As opposed to a South Island team that can pick up many of Kiwi players the Warriors don’t. Just look at the NRL it’s full of Kiwis. And have pretty much direct access to arguably the best Rugby Union nursery not just in New Zealand……… The World. (I admit that begrudgingly btw) It boldly predict, it won’t be long until they’re cranking out players for…….. the player pool. Unlike Melbourne 25 years later and nothing. And extra money from the Sky TV deal no doubt.

That Perth team will be a disaster, bet you. And a complete drain on a player pool and the NRL’s resources. Why do you think there’s such an issue on money with that bid? Because 1. It’ll be expensive, and they don’t actually gain anything from it that they can’t from PNG or 2nd NZ teams.
2. Doubt they produce many players. Like Melbourne.
And 3. It’ll be a PR disaster if/when it fails.

Is success linked to player catchment?

Going off gut instinct, the Storm, Roosters, Raiders, Knights and Cowboys would all have below average playing numbers to draw from but do well or have for periods.

The Eels, Warriors, Titans, Tigers, etc have a larger catchment but have struggled.

Seems more the culture in the club where a team develops x-factor that can attract or allow them to buy players on the cheap.

 

[Tohu’s_Knees]

Is success linked to player catchment?

Going off gut instinct, the Storm, Roosters, Raiders, Knights and Cowboys would all have below average playing numbers to draw from but do well or have for periods.

The Eels, Warriors, Titans, Tigers, etc have a larger catchment but have struggled.

Seems more the culture in the club where a team develops x-factor that can attract or allow them to buy players on the cheap.

I refer to viability, adding to the list of pros and cons in regards to player catchment.

Roosters and Storm sure. We all know why the Roosters keep getting players. Raiders have had to resort to English players to be competitive recently. Knights are a few hours away from Sydney. Not a 5 hour flight.
Cowboys? Wouldn’t have a clue tbh. But that’s kinda adding to my point. We can’t have to many teams like that.

When I was referring to “on field” success, I was pretty much dismissing it in regards to the Melbourne Storm, that despite their success. They were losing money for years and have no grassroots.
IMO they’ve been “helped” along the way. Where would the Melbourne Storm be if they weren’t so successful? Gone…….

On field success is a funny one. Obviously it’s important, obviously it’s what we strive for. But when it comes to the big decisions; expansion, direction…….. it’s kinda irrelevant.
It keeps you “off the chopping block”, it doesn’t mean you get to pick who’s on it.
And I point to……..

The Warriors, they aren’t successful. But the NRL would NEVER even consider cutting them. If they did? You can rip that Sky TV deal up, directly losing millions of dollars. And interest in the NRL would plummet reducing the potential player pool. Other than the Brisbane Broncos, you could argue the Warriors are the most important club in the NRL.
Yeah “on field success” is cool. But from the NRL’s perspective, it’s irrelevant. “Someone” will win every year. lol

Personally I find it strange how everyone can see what Melbourne does and it’s explained away by saying “they know the ref can’t keep blowing his whistle” or something similar…… bullshit.
Ah, so they do just get away with it……..
The Warriors sure as hell wouldn’t get away with it.

And it’s the “on field success” that I’m most concerned about with that Perth team. Not as a hater, but because of the potential “help” the NRL could give them. The NRL would be desperate, absolutely desperate to keep the Perth club going.

There really is no upside to the Perth team.
1. No extra money, (unless the WA government gets involved? Idk)
2. No player pool (no real one)
3. Extra travel, Christchurch is closer to the Australian east coast.
4. Extra pressure on existing player pool.
5. Pressure on the NRL to keep them relevant.

I don’t see much upside.

 

[JustLikeStartingOver]

The fact that they were expected to hand over serious cash to the NRL as part of their bid shows they don’t particularly care one way or another if Perth has a team or not.

They don’t really want a *national* rugby league, they want 20 teams to fill up the broadcasting schedule and who bring something to the table (player pool or private investment or central government funding i.e PNG)

As it stands they can probably keep getting players out of New Zealand without the SI team, warriors can’t sign them all, Christchurch would have to make the argument their presence adds more than just an also ran first grade side, that having them would widen the youth pipeline even further. It’s possible but not guaranteed, a lot of kids go to aus and are never heard from again.

Perth just kind of has the funny timezone advantage, you can have a 10pm game on the east coast that kicks off at 7pm local.

Not sure where they get 20 teams from TBH if they are going to be so singularly $ focused about.

Central coast has tried and failed a few times, Sydney is covered, PNG Brisbane III with either a rich backer or leagues club and ???