Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[defensivebomb]

I get that

But it's hypocritical what we allow ourselves to get upset about or choose to ignore - both sides of the political spectrum.

That’s quite a good point. And in fact, there isn’t much point in being upset about policies of parties that aren’t even in govt. So in fairness, people should be more upset about Act than TPM.

For the record, I’m not particularly upset about TPMs tax policy. I just think it is stupid and ill-thought through.

I’m not a fan of Act’s tobacco lobbying. But I don’t worry too much about it as it doesn’t affect me, and I believe people should make their choices around tobacco. I’d just rather the govt spent its energy on more productive areas

 

[juju]

That’s quite a good point. And in fact, there isn’t much point in being upset about policies of parties that aren’t even in govt. So in fairness, people should be more upset about Act than TPM.

For the record, I’m not particularly upset about TPMs tax policy. I just think it is stupid and ill-thought through.

I’m not a fan of Act’s tobacco lobbying. But I don’t worry too much about it as it doesn’t affect me, and I believe people should make their choices around tobacco. I’d just rather the govt spent its energy on more productive areas

The point around the lobbying is the influence nefarious organisations can have over over our democracy just as much as the policy itself.

 

[juju]

Yeah & I have no problem with where they position themselves on the spectrum. However at the same time it’s very difficult not to be triggered by their approach at times. In my view they overstep in their delivery, intentionally antagonistic and divisive.

At least we know their "why", the betterment of their people.

What does NZF actually stand for?

Go read how the Act Party posts and tell me thats not antagonistic.

Politics really is shit here at the moment.

 

[defensivebomb]

What does NZF actually stand for?.

Votes.

That’s all I can think of

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

At least we know their "why", the betterment of their people.

What does NZF actually stand for?

Go read how the Act Party posts and tell me thats not antagonistic.

Politics really is shit here at the moment.

Yes not suggesting they’re the only ones playing that game. I have no idea what NZF stand for, but then the flog that currently leads Labour has no idea what he stands for either.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

I just asked the guy to clarify what "most" is in terms of a percentage?

I doubt he needs a stranger on the internet to go into bat for him to answer this simple question

Wasn’t aimed at you, you were just the one of a few I replied to

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

I

TPM are no different to any other party really - they pander to their potential voter pool. We all know where they sit on the political spectrum and they are unapologetic about it. They’re a minority party, so by definition most of us will disagree with a lot or in some cases nearly all of their policies.

I am disillusioned with MMP.

In the past a centralist party would make policy for the masses and was very careful about going to far left or right.

Now in many areas the tail wags the dog (eg. ACT on smoking, left parties tax policy, etc). I don’t blame the parties I blame the system.

We genuinely need to worry about minor parties policies, with illogically though our ideas that gets compromised into law. With minor parties support consistently dropping while in govt they are going harder and more extreme to stick out and appear their supporters which we all pay for.

Even the major parties have turned away from governing to the masses and have clearly identified target voters they try to buy at the expense of the good of all.

Politics has slowly become a marketing exercise and governing for your target markets rather than governing for all. Divisive.

This is where all the divisiveness is coming from. Governments are not central anymore but the far left and right have too much power. I blame MMP.

 

[Garry Saloon]

Have a look at their tax policy and tell me how that will increase jobs for Mao

Why is it ok people surmise parties policies and form opinions like act - for the rich pricks; greens - bunch of tree huggers but you surmise the policy position of another party and because the party’s based on race, critical views are racist?

I’ve seen plenty of their policies and them standing up for beneficiaries and gangs. I’ve seen no policies about growing the country or creating jobs.

No, it's because he repeated the racist trope that Māori don't want to work.

 

[Garry Saloon]

I

I am disillusioned with MMP.

In the past a centralist party would make policy for the masses and was very careful about going to far left or right.

Now in many areas the tail wags the dog (eg. ACT on smoking, left parties tax policy, etc). I don’t blame the parties I blame the system.

We genuinely need to worry about minor parties policies, with illogically though our ideas that gets compromised into law. With minor parties support consistently dropping while in govt they are going harder and more extreme to stick out and appear their supporters which we all pay for.

Even the major parties have turned away from governing to the masses and have clearly identified target voters they try to buy at the expense of the good of all.

Politics has slowly become a marketing exercise and governing for your target markets rather than governing for all. Divisive.

This is where all the divisiveness is coming from. Governments are not central anymore but the far left and right have too much power. I blame MMP.

Those centralist parties made (still do) policies for the masses, but by masses you mean the largely white, largely straight, largely cis, largely home owning, largely middle class, and fuck everyone else. MMP is a useful corrective to that. And ACT and NZ First being shithouse doesn't make that less true.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Those centralist parties made (still do) policies for the masses, but by masses you mean the largely white, largely straight, largely cis, largely home owning, largely middle class, and fuck everyone else. MMP is a useful corrective to that. And ACT and NZ First being shithouse doesn't make that less true.

Ok well I guess we’re under no illusions as to where you align politically, socially, etc

 

[Garry Saloon]

Ok well I guess we’re under no illusions as to where you align politically, socially, etc

Yeah, I align with people of as many stripes as possible, not just people who look like me, live like me, and have the same experiences as me. I get that some people like to defend their camp and blame Māori and muslims and gays and trans and women or whoever for the world's problems. I don't truck with that nonsense. In my view people blaming these other groups are total suckers and simps who are doing exactly what people with wealth and power want them to do: turn on each other.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Yeah, I align with people of as many stripes as possible, not just people who look like me, live like me, and have the same experiences as me. I get that some people like to defend their camp and blame Māori and muslims and gays and trans and women or whoever for the world's problems. I don't truck with that nonsense. In my view people blaming these other groups are total suckers and simps who are doing exactly what people with wealth and power want them to do: turn on each other.

As many stripes as possible so long as they aren’t cis, white, male, middle class (or higher I assume), home owners, etc

 

[Garry Saloon]

As many stripes as possible so long as they aren’t cis, white, male, middle class (or higher I assume), home owners, etc

Not at all. I'm all of those things and so are most of my friends. They're all fine things to be.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Not at all. I'm all of those things and so are most of my friends. They're all fine things to be.

Cool, misinterpreted your previous (previous) post.

 

[Bay39er]

As a third tier lender you must be concerned for your loan book.
Selling the house to shore up a failing business is slow suicide.

Not at all
Good security solves many problems
(Second tier actually but charge 3rd tier rates)

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

No, it's because he repeated the racist trope that Māori don't want to work.

I’m not white. I have a māori business partner.

Shane Jones I regard as aspirational with high expectations for māori. I just don’t see any aspiration from the māori party.

Those centralist parties made (still do) policies for the masses, but by masses you mean the largely white, largely straight, largely cis, largely home owning, largely middle class, and fuck everyone else. MMP is a useful corrective to that. And ACT and NZ First being shithouse doesn't make that less true.

Is NZ Firsts smoking policy; Acts gun policy; Greens wealth tax; etc anything to do with any of those things?

Problem is if you love MMP because it gives a voice to the hard left, you can’t complain about the hard right getting their chance…

Personally being in a minority group, I was bought up to work hard and you take all the external factors out of your success in life. Take life into my own hands and no one can stop me. Seems to have worked well…

 

[Garry Saloon]

I’m not white. I have a māori business partner.

Shane Jones I regard as aspirational with high expectations for māori. I just don’t see any aspiration from the māori party.


Is NZ Firsts smoking policy; Acts gun policy; Greens wealth tax; etc anything to do with any of those things?

Problem is if you love MMP because it gives a voice to the hard left, you can’t complain about the hard right getting their chance…

Personally being in a minority group, I was bought up to work hard and you take all the external factors out of your success in life. Take life into my own hands and no one can stop me. Seems to have worked well…

Shane Jones has absolutely no principles. He believes in exactly whatever industry group wined and dined and donated to him tells him to believe. As for Act and New Zealand First, I don't object to their chance, I object to their horrible policies. I'm glad you were well raised. Not everyone has parents who want to or are able to raise kids well. Those people have to overcome that and often systemic discrimination and health problems on top of that. Some very comfortable people think that it's more important that they have a third or fourth rental without a capital gains tax than the unluckiest of us have the support they need to live a happy and healthy life. I think that attitude is disgraceful.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

More evidence of Labours economic illiteracy and pandering to their targeted voters instead of what’s best for NZ:

In 2017 the minimum wage in this country was about 60% of the median wage, already significantly higher than the OECD average of 54%. Unaware that you can’t legislate your way to prosperity, Labour embarked on a series of precipitous minimum wage hikes, until it was an almost unheard of 70% of the median wage at the end of last year.

That deliberate policy both stoked inflation, which has left lower-paid workers worse off, and killed the viability of many small businesses, notably in the hospitality sector, which were already weakened by Covid. The mantra of the left at the time was that if businesses couldn’t sustain the higher rates they shouldn’t be in business. And so it proved.

We are also seeing a belated rise in youth unemployment, particularly among low-skilled workers who start out on the minimum wage. There are clearly fewer of those jobs around.

I was vocal on this as it was happening. I hate being right all the time @Worried2Death

 

[Garry Saloon]

More evidence of Labours economic illiteracy and pandering to their targeted voters instead of what’s best for NZ:

In 2017 the minimum wage in this country was about 60% of the median wage, already significantly higher than the OECD average of 54%. Unaware that you can’t legislate your way to prosperity, Labour embarked on a series of precipitous minimum wage hikes, until it was an almost unheard of 70% of the median wage at the end of last year.

That deliberate policy both stoked inflation, which has left lower-paid workers worse off, and killed the viability of many small businesses, notably in the hospitality sector, which were already weakened by Covid. The mantra of the left at the time was that if businesses couldn’t sustain the higher rates they shouldn’t be in business. And so it proved.

We are also seeing a belated rise in youth unemployment, particularly among low-skilled workers who start out on the minimum wage. There are clearly fewer of those jobs around.

I was vocal on this as it was happening. I hate being right all the time @Worried2Death

Total nonsense. Inflation has clearly been a global issue, few countries have escaped regardless of wage or monetary policy, paying people a decent wage is not the problem. It's about bloody time WORKERS earned a bit more. If your business depends on poverty wages, good riddance. The rich have been get richer and the rest standing still for decades. By the way low inflation is cold comfort when you're put out of work by the current government and at the same time told you're an undeserving bludger if you seek government support.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Total nonsense. Inflation has clearly been a global issue, few countries have escaped regardless of wage or monetary policy, paying people a decent wage is not the problem. It's about bloody time WORKERS earned a bit more. If your business depends on poverty wages, good riddance. The rich have been get richer and the rest standing still for decades. By the way low inflation is cold comfort when you're put out of work by the current government and at the same time told you're an undeserving bludger if you seek government support.

APS "employees" are hardly workers, produce 3/10s of fuck all. 90% of business's are small business with 0-3 employees and they certainly arent getting richer.