Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[Worried2Death]

Removing a democratically elected body is pretty drastic. Tauranga lost democracy for a long period of time, as did Canterbury.

It is drastic but tbf Tauranga was a basket case and the Canterbury quake rebuild was well beyond the scope of the CCC

 

[miket12]

Destiny Church has a similar program but the worry is they're just recruiting for Brian's gang.

Man Up.... needs to be retitled "Cough Up" i.e. give 10% to Brian... he needs a new Harley!!!

 

[Rizzah]

I'd rather they spent a fraction of that money on new prisons.... and a lot more on programs to reduce reoffending rates. While I don't want to see the privisation of prisons, there are programs run in some South American prisons by Prison Fellowship which have reduced reoffending by over 60%. PROVIDED they aren't used to "evangelise" prisoners or in any way privatise the prisons, why don't we look at what they're doing and adopt what we can here?

Look to the Dutch, Norway and Sweden. Focus is on rehabilitation. They are actually reducing prison capacity or leasing it to other countries! Lol.
They also have massive public sectors and public sector budgets. Which most people on here think is the road to Sodom.

 

[miket12]

It is drastic but tbf Tauranga was a basket case and the Canterbury quake rebuild was well beyond the scope of the CCC

The commissioners brought in to replace the ECC by a National government surprised me when they included David Caygill.

 

[miket12]

Look to the Dutch, Norway and Sweden. Focus is on rehabilitation. They are actually reducing prison capacity or leasing it to other countries! Lol.
They also have massive public sectors and public sector budgets. Which most people on here think is the road to Sodom.

I have absolutely no problem with an efficiently run public sector. Our problem is that we swing from pumping it up with huge amounts of money without being accountable to striping it back down with every change of government. Heaven forbid we should not just pump money into the public sector but also ensure the money is then used wisely.... as they also do in those three countries you mentioned. Unfortunately, our major parties want to appeal too much to the voting public (and the whims of the financial backers) than to actually do what's best for the country.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Look to the Dutch, Norway and Sweden. Focus is on rehabilitation. They are actually reducing prison capacity or leasing it to other countries! Lol.
They also have massive public sectors and public sector budgets. Which most people on here think is the road to Sodom.

100% Rizzah. And that describes an ideal for me too. Backlash coming shortly - just to bring it on quicker I'll say 6 words - bring in a capital gains tax

 

[MaybeTop8]

I have absolutely no problem with an efficiently run public sector. Our problem is that we swing from pumping it up with huge amounts of money without being accountable to striping it back down with every change of government. Heaven forbid we should not just pump money into the public sector but also ensure the money is then used wisely.... as they also do in those three countries you mentioned. Unfortunately, our major parties want to appeal too much to the voting public (and the whims of the financial backers) than to actually do what's best for the country.

Agree, the need for protection for large swathes of our core services and infrastructure from political interference of supply, funding and planning is imperative.

All of that is antithesis to the neoliberal creeps.

 

[miket12]

Agree, the need for protection for large swathes of our core services and infrastructure from political interference of supply, funding and planning is imperative.

All of that is antithesis to the neoliberal creeps.

I'm quite surprised that ACT has allowed the government to suggest that there be a consensus on large infrastructure projects between National and Labour. Seems to go against one of their core beliefs... private over public building of assets.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

and a lot more on programs to reduce reoffending rates.

bullets reduce reoffending 100%

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Look to the Dutch, Norway and Sweden. Focus is on rehabilitation. They are actually reducing prison capacity or leasing it to other countries! Lol.
They also have massive public sectors and public sector budgets. Which most people on here think is the road to Sodom.

That worked back when they had a high trust society and mono-ethnic cultures. All three of those places have massive crime problems.

Gang warfare propels Sweden's homicide rate among Europe's highest

The surge in gang violence in Sweden has led to one of the highest homicide rates in Europe, with official data showing that fatal shootings have more than doubled in a year. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

 

[Rizzah]

I have absolutely no problem with an efficiently run public sector. Our problem is that we swing from pumping it up with huge amounts of money without being accountable to striping it back down with every change of government. Heaven forbid we should not just pump money into the public sector but also ensure the money is then used wisely.... as they also do in those three countries you mentioned. Unfortunately, our major parties want to appeal too much to the voting public (and the whims of the financial backers) than to actually do what's best for the country.

The efficiency argument is a massive beat up IMO. You don't cut funding to find efficiency, that fucks the whole thing up.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Dutch 'Mocro mafia' sets off alarm bells in Germany – DW – 09/25/2024

German police have warned of Dutch organized crime networks moving into Germany after a series of explosions in Cologne.

www.dw.com

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Government launches a war on crime - Norway's News in English — www.newsinenglish.no

Norway’s Labour-Center government has launched a war on crime, after what it calls a “brutal” summer marked by stabbings, shootings and gang wars, much of it tied to drugs. Recent arrests of the crown princess’ own son indicates the violence and lack of regard for the law extends far beyond...

www.newsinenglish.no

 

[Rizzah]

That worked back when they had a high trust society and mono-ethnic cultures. All three of those places have massive crime problems.

Gang warfare propels Sweden's homicide rate among Europe's highest

The surge in gang violence in Sweden has led to one of the highest homicide rates in Europe, with official data showing that fatal shootings have more than doubled in a year. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

The principle still applies. A rehab focus is better for everyone.

 

[Inruin]

100% Rizzah. And that describes an ideal for me too. Backlash coming shortly - just to bring it on quicker I'll say 6 words - bring in a capital gains tax

Your ideal is Norway? One of the biggest oil producers in the world. And you think it's because of a capital gains tax?

 

[Rizzah]

Your ideal is Norway? One of the biggest oil producers in the world. And you think it's because of a capital gains tax?

Your mate @wizard of Tauranga said we could be Norway a few pages back - because we were going to magically double GDP in 10 years, Lol!

 

[MrFrankWhite]

The principle still applies. A rehab focus is better for everyone.

Im not talking general crime here. Im talking almost exclusively violent crime. Are there longitudinal studies on the health of societies who rehabilitate violent criminals?

 

[Rizzah]

Im not talking general crime here. Im talking almost exclusively violent crime. Are there longitudinal studies on the health of societies who rehabilitate violent criminals?

Do those countries rehab their most violent criminals? Always exceptions to the rule and some will require long term incarceration.
Remembering we have one of the highest incarceration rates in the OECD.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Do those countries rehab their most violent criminals? Always exceptions to the rule and some will require long term incarceration.
Remembering we have one of the highest incarceration rates in the OECD.

I genuinely don't know the data

 

[Rizzah]

I genuinely don't know the data

Neither, most of the articles talk about non-violent offenders. Which make up, certainly in NZ, a huge portion of the prison population.