Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[Noitall]

We have agriculture and tourism. The first has been under attack and the second is going to take a long time to recover. We don't or aren't allowed to utilize other natural resources like Australia does for example. Yes our credit rating remains ok, that doesn't mean we are in a good place. Debt is necessary for funding but it needs to be used IMO to provide those assets and infrastructure, I just didn't see that improving to any great degree despite the borrowing previously. I agree cross party support is necessary but it's never going to be agreed to. Roading for example was run down by the previous government and is now a high priority for this one. Is light rail a yes or a no? Is a cycle bridge across the harbour a yes or no? Are roads of national significance a yes or no? Etc etc There are fundamental differences in ideologies and mmp has arguably made that worse or even harder to come to a consensus. I also think there is enough young people represented. And often life experience, or rather lack of, is a bigger issue than the age of the representative. What I do think is that we need to be more realistic with what we are doing, asking for and spending money on. More controlled and measured, with accountability. And that's for all parties and governments we have.

I believe agriculture is in it’s dying stages as our bread and butter industry, we made big concessions under the key government that has stripped a country like China’s dependency on our dairy infrastructure, especially with the likes of live export. That ceased under the last government but record high payouts were delivered to farmers. The sheep and wool industry is in huge lows and may not survive. Covid put a stop to it but tourism had outstripped agriculture and dairy before it arrived and I believe that’s still a big part of our future. In terms of getting what minerals we can out of our land, my memories of the port of Mexico disaster sits firmly in my mind and anything we choose to pursue should have a quick achievable solution if the worst case scenario arises. Something like oil spewing into the ocean for lengthy times or anything of the like is unsatisfactory in my view. Our environment should always be prioritised. In terms of cross party support, different ideologies, young people represented and the issues you mentioned later in this post, these are things we can as voters reward to the parties that are offering these and any other things that we see merit in. As voters in a democracy we still have a majority rules approach we reward and largely still have the power. The concern is the lacklustre turnout by voters that aren’t buoyed by good candidates that they feel strongly in

 

[juju]

The polls seem to be holding up very well. Consumer confidence and business confidence are up, though those seem to be based on a feeling rather than any solid factors or change in personal circumference. This government has definitely made some weird calls but also seem to have made a number of very good ones as well. The feeling I have, at least on the face of it, is that they are trying to at least manage things. Rightly or wrongly, whether you agree with them or not, I just get the feeling there is actually action and urgency to get things done. It will be interesting to see the targets and measures reported over time, and a number of things are going to need a fair bit of time to see change, like education standards for example. I think the vast majority of people aknowledge the borrowing and spending needed during lockdowns was necessary to keep the economy moving. i think that's just a given now Outside of that though I think many struggled to see any improvements in key areas of health, education, crime, infrastructure despite the borrowing and spending continuing - and we aren't talking about small sums here. And I think that's what the majority of people are have seen and are currently seeing and why the polls are remaining very stable after a year in power.

It's labour internal polling & a fluff piece but to me it holds as much credence any polls funded by the TPU.

The Post

www.thepost.co.nz

I understand your thoughts the lack of progress with the last government & yup thats likely why they're in opposition.

Just interesting to see such a big protest this early into a government & a community so upset en masse..

 

[Inruin]

I believe agriculture is in it’s dying stages as our bread and butter industry, we made big concessions under the key government that has stripped a country like China’s dependency on our dairy infrastructure, especially with the likes of live export. That ceased under the last government but record high payouts were delivered to farmers. The sheep and wool industry is in huge lows and may not survive. Covid put a stop to it but tourism had outstripped agriculture and dairy before it arrived and I believe that’s still a big part of our future. In terms of getting what minerals we can out of our land, my memories of the port of Mexico disaster sits firmly in my mind and anything we choose to pursue should have a quick achievable solution if the worst case scenario arises. Something like oil spewing into the ocean for lengthy times or anything of the like is unsatisfactory in my view. Our environment should always be prioritised. In terms of cross party support, different ideologies, young people represented and the issues you mentioned later in this post, these are things we can as voters reward to the parties that are offering these and any other things that we see merit in. As voters in a democracy we still have a majority rules approach we reward and largely still have the power. The concern is the lacklustre turnout by voters that aren’t buoyed by good candidates that they feel strongly in

Yes, I guess that's my point around borrowing, credit ratings and our ability to pay it back. I think agriculture can still be a large part of the economy, tourism is struggling to recover, we have reluctance to utilise natural resource like Australia does, we don't have a big consumer spending base to go to like USA does. We really need to be quite prudent in what we want, how much to spend on it and how it's funded.

 

[juju]

Yes, I guess that's my point around borrowing, credit ratings and our ability to pay it back. I think agriculture can still be a large part of the economy, tourism is struggling to recover, reluctance to utilise natural resource like Australia does, we don't have a big consumer spending base to go to like USA does. We really need to be quite prudent in what we want, how much to send on it and how it's funded.

And prudent on how we generate tax income.

 

[Inruin]

Its interesting to see such a big protest this early into a government & a community so upset en masse..

Some of it is well deserved.

The Dunedin hospital piece you would have to say is a real cock up on a number of levels. I get the budget blow out but who is advising Luxon. If it was me I would have announced the blow out and the cause of it and said something like we will still find a way. Whether that's staging the build, making some minor changes to bring the cost down, borrowing more (which is also a great out when the next election cycle comes around and the numbers are attacked) or pulled back on some other areas of investment like roads of NS.

 

[Inruin]

And prudent on how we generate tax income.

Yes, like I said, prudent to how it is funded. You have to have a productive economy as the base though don't you. When it comes to a CGT or wealth tax, which I assume you are alluding to here, you need to be mindful of what outcome or outcomes you are trying to achieve.

 

[Noitall]

Yes, I guess that's my point around borrowing, credit ratings and our ability to pay it back. I think agriculture can still be a large part of the economy, tourism is struggling to recover, reluctance to utilise natural resource like Australia does, we don't have a big consumer spending base to go to like USA does. We really need to be quite prudent in what we want, how much to send on it and how it's funded.

I think in the clean world we strive to be that our clean green mantra of yesteryear could be a huge asset to us in tourism if we’re able to return to it. As consumers we zone in on government spending, and that was the interesting listen to Garnesh Nana this morning, it’s actually us the public that are borrowing more than ever. That coupled with alterations to what we’ve historically known to be covered in our taxes is going to either take a big attitude shift or challenging the powers that are telling us this is how it’s going to be

 

[Noitall]

Some of it is well deserved.

The Dunedin hospital piece you would have to say is a real cock up in a number if levels. I get the budget blow out but who is advising Luxon. If it was me I would have announced to blow out and the cause of it and sais something like we will still fund a way. Whether that's staging the build, making some minor changes to bring the cost down, borrowing more (which is also a great out when the next election cycle comes around and the numbers are attached) or pulled back on some other areas of investment like roads of NS.

Right through the lead up to the election and showing their budget for planning, they were constantly told that their numbers didn’t add up. It now looks as though that was always the case

 

[juju]

Yes, like I said, prudent to how it is funded. You have to have a productive economy as the base though don't you. When it comes to a CGT or wealth tax, which I assume you are alluding to here, you need to be mindful of what outcome or outcomes you are trying to achieve.

No it was more a general comment about tax. How we tax people and corporations
I'm all for CGT on investment property but TBD on it and further and not into the wealth tax.

What policy or policies by the current government can you see will improve productivity?

 

[Inruin]

I think in the clean world we strive to be that our clean green mantra of yesteryear could be a huge asset to us in tourism if we’re able to return to it. As consumers we zone in on government spending, and that was the interesting listen to Garnesh Nana this morning, it’s actually us the public that are borrowing more than ever. That coupled with alterations to what we’ve historically known to be covered in our taxes is going to either take a big attitude shift or challenging the powers that are telling us this is how it’s going to be

That 'clean green' mantra is also of benefit with agriculture, dairy, horticulture etc and we should be trying to extract higher value for that where possible.

Is our current personal level of borrowing just a sign of the current state we find ourselves in and trying to get through? Much like the borrowing we did as a country to get through COVID, if people don't reign it back in once they are through this current period and continue to borrow and spend without increasing their asset base then they will find themselves in the same place we are now as a country IMO

 

[Inruin]

Right through the lead up to the election and showing their budget for planning, they were constantly told that their numbers didn’t add up. It now looks as though that was always the case

Possibly, there is always going to be elements of that from both sides. What I did see was an inability by the previous government to acknowledge that there was a cost of living crisis and an inability to reign in spending so I tend to have little faith in their commentary. Especially with projects either underfunded in their budget or not even included. Light rail for example

When it comes to the Dunedin hospital case the biggest issue I think is that it was used as a bit of a political football during elections. Put that to the side and there are a few issues. To name a few, the size of the spend versus the population, the effect of meeting the blow out cost in other areas of funding throughout the country, and then there is the actual costings which apparently didn't cover everything to start with

"The Government has already committed an additional $290m to the build this year. Insufficient money had been set aside for other associated costs such as a pathology lab, refurbishment of the existing facilities and car parking which are collectively estimated at an additional $400 million. No business cases have been prepared for any of these additional elements of the project."

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

All around not a great look. If it was me I would just fund it through debt and cutting back in some other areas where I could. At least you are getting a tangible asset out of it.

 

[Bay39er]

Interest deductibility is debatable, tobacco products yes, I haven't met to many people yet who have said they didn't want a tax cut.

Have you ever heard a turkey say they thought Thanksgiving was a great idea?

 

[MaybeTop8]

Possibly, there is always going to be elements of that from both sides. What I did see was an inability by the previous government to acknowledge that there was a cost of living crisis and an inability to reign in spending so I tend to have little faith in their commentary.

When it comes to the Dunedin hospital case the biggest issue I think is that it was used as a bit of a political football during elections. Put that to the side and there are a few issues. To name a few, the size of the spend versus the population, the effect of meeting the blow out cost in other areas of funding throughout the country, and then there is the actual costings which apparently didn't cover everything to start with

"The Government has already committed an additional $290m to the build this year. Insufficient money had been set aside for other associated costs such as a pathology lab, refurbishment of the existing facilities and car parking which are collectively estimated at an additional $400 million. No business cases have been prepared for any of these additional elements of the project."

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

All around not a great look. If it was me I would just fund it through debt and cutting back in some other areas where I could. At least you are getting a tangible asset out of it.

We could always cut out the tax cut hey.

 

[Noitall]

That 'clean green' mantra is also of benefit with agriculture, dairy, horticulture etc and we should be trying to extract higher value for that where possible.

Is our current personal level of borrowing just a sign of the current state we find ourselves in and trying to get through? Much like the borrowing we did as a country to get through COVID, if people don't reign it back in once they are through this current period and continue to borrow and spend without increasing their asset base then they will find themselves in the same place we are now as a country IMO

Agriculture as the farming sector is also to some degree by some very unwilling to commit to goals around emissions or many things to the benefit of the environment. That’s not to say all though. There have been the birth of some parts of farming too like groundswell that at times is hard to gauge their motives. There should always be a willingness from every sector to cut the chain to the weakest link and when seeing some farmers practises of cows and sheep deep in mud or a general lack of care for the animals, those need to be moved on. Just like most though, a fascinating industry to see the changes and adaptations. On the second part of your post regarding our spending habits, I just don’t believe the world or the banks learned anything from the gfc in 2008 and we’ve just sunk deeper. We’ve had some adversity too along the way but so many factors really that are associated to banks for us the consumer. Things like a false economy with such low interest rates and many more

 

[Noitall]

Possibly, there is always going to be elements of that from both sides. What I did see was an inability by the previous government to acknowledge that there was a cost of living crisis and an inability to reign in spending so I tend to have little faith in their commentary.

When it comes to the Dunedin hospital case the biggest issue I think is that it was used as a bit of a political football during elections. Put that to the side and there are a few issues. To name a few, the size of the spend versus the population, the effect of meeting the blow out cost in other areas of funding throughout the country, and then there is the actual costings which apparently didn't cover everything to start with

"The Government has already committed an additional $290m to the build this year. Insufficient money had been set aside for other associated costs such as a pathology lab, refurbishment of the existing facilities and car parking which are collectively estimated at an additional $400 million. No business cases have been prepared for any of these additional elements of the project."

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

All around not a great look. If it was me I would just fund it through debt and cutting back in some other areas where I could. At least you are getting a tangible asset out of it.

It wasn’t only the then government saying it though, many economists also saw holes in their numbers. The then government acknowledged a cost of living crisis through cost of living payments that had many elements that were a failure, like going to people overseas etc but probably as unlikely as the current governments tax cuts to provide relief to people in desperate times realistically. I agree regarding the hospital though, it’s an investment that is always going to be required

 

[Inruin]

No it was more a general comment about tax. How we tax people and corporations
I'm all for CGT on investment property but TBD on it and further and not into the wealth tax.

What policy or policies by the current government can you see will improve productivity?

Examples. RMA reform at one end. Improving education standards at the other end.

Not a policy but I see we have just signed a trade deal with UAE which will help increase the size of the pie

 

[Inruin]

Have you ever heard a turkey say they thought Thanksgiving was a great idea?

In this analogy you don't hear the turkeys that don't have enough to eat saying they don't want more food.

 

[John Nick]

In this analogy you don't hear the turkeys that don't have enough to eat saying they don't want more food.

Even blind chickens get a bit of corn from time to time

 

[juju]

Examples. RMA reform at one end. Improving education standards at the other end.

Not a policy but I see we have just signed a trade deal with UAE which will help increase the size of the pie

Is that enough to negate some of the changes that will effect productivity the other way? I'm not sure it will

 

[juju]

Is anybody noticing the tax cut and extra money to spend?