Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[Rick O’Shay]

Vital infrastructure should never be in the hands of private interests

Why is that?

 

[MaybeTop8]

Why is that?

Why isn't that? The market is extremely self interested.

 

[Rick O’Shay]

Why isn't that? The market is extremely self interested.

Isn't that business?

So, the State actually is a better manager of the Ferries for example than Blueridge?

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Vital infrastructure should never be in the hands of private interests

True. The problem is people can’t agree on what is “vital”

 

[MaybeTop8]

Isn't that business?

So, the State actually is a better manager of the Ferries for example than Blueridge?

Well, Rick, that depends on a complex multitude of factors, such as neoliberal idealogues not deliberately running down the state and government like we're seeing for at least the third go round. That depends on not setting up artificial markets, e.g. the telecom and electricity markets, and ignoring the level playing field mantra by giving welfare to corporates right from the start.

Governments can very easily set up parent enterprises that can equally, if mandated with the public interest and the right resources and guidance easily match any private enterprise. But nothing to say that both can't exist equally.

The lack of investment in infrastructure is a direct result of neoliberalism and underfunding.

Shareholder returns before people, profit first at all cost - that's private enterprise at the large scale. Repeated time and time again, here and elsewhere.

Anyway, all of this is available at your local library and online if you care to look.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

The lack of investment in infrastructure is a direct result of neoliberalism and underfunding.

Ahh I gotta call bullshit on this. Please state the communist/socialist countries/cities you have visited and the dates.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Well, Rick, that depends on a complex multitude of factors, such as neoliberal idealogues not deliberately running down the state and government like we're seeing for at least the third go round. That depends on not setting up artificial markets, e.g. the telecom and electricity markets, and ignoring the level playing field mantra by giving welfare to corporates right from the start.

Governments can very easily set up parent enterprises that can equally, if mandated with the public interest and the right resources and guidance easily match any private enterprise. But nothing to say that both can't exist equally.

The lack of investment in infrastructure is a direct result of neoliberalism and underfunding.

Shareholder returns before people, profit first at all cost - that's private enterprise at the large scale. Repeated time and time again, here and elsewhere.

Anyway, all of this is available at your local library and online if you care to look.

Also it seems like you aren’t aware that 97% of all private enterprise globally is small businesses. Family owned, sole owner, mom and pop joints. The only shareholders are us. But I’m also a person?

Do you see how retarded far left commie bullshit is and how it’s all nonsense?

 

[MaybeTop8]

Also it seems like you aren’t aware that 97% of all private enterprise globally is small businesses. Family owned, sole owner, mom and pop joints. The only shareholders are us. But I’m also a person?

Do you see how retarded far left commie bullshit is and how it’s all nonsense?

It was lazy of me not to label private enterprise = giant corporates. or Corporate Enterprise. Or whatever you want to label them.

Our infrastructure has been underinvested for decades. That's accelerated under the last 40 years, which happens to be the introduction of neoliberalism. Profit extraction is more important than investment.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

It was lazy of me not to label private enterprise = giant corporates. or Corporate Enterprise.

Our infrastructure has been underinvested for decades. That's accelerated under the last 40 years, which happens to be the introduction of neoliberalism. Profit extraction is more important than investment.

Only if it’s incentivised that way. The problem with most of the left is they despise economics but don’t understand it.

I’ve seen numerous countries with all types of govt. Capitalist, socialist, communist, religious, monarchy. Some had shit infrastructure, some were amazing. The only common factor is the intelligence and will of the ruling class.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Only if it’s incentivised that way. The problem with most of the left is they despise economics but don’t understand it.

I’ve seen numerous countries with all types of govt. Capitalist, socialist, communist, religious, monarchy. Some had shit infrastructure, some were amazing. The only common factor is the intelligence and will of the ruling class.

me <> left (what does that even mean as a thing these days?) <> every single other person in this world.

I agree with your second sentence. And this country has been incentivised to enrich the very wealthy for decades now.

 

[marv.]

neoliberalism

 

[MrFrankWhite]

I agree with your second sentence. And this country has been incentivised to enrich the very wealthy for decades now.

Of course. Poor people don’t produce anything or employ anybody.

North Korea has zero neoliberal policies, are you arguing NZ should be more like them?

 

[defensivebomb]

It would be interesting to see the NRL operating without capitalism

We’d receive our game updates from a dear leader, via the state-owned wireless

Mind you, we’d probably all be a bit happier, as the dear leader would report that the warriors had won the comp again, for the 24th year running

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

me <> left (what does that even mean as a thing these days?) <> every single other person in this world.

I agree with your second sentence. And this country has been incentivised to enrich the very wealthy for decades now.

People with intelligence and drive have been incentivised to enrich their lives. Imagine the state we would be in if smart people weren’t encouraged and rewarded for their efforts.

 

[marv.]

Imagine the state we would be in if smart people weren’t encouraged and rewarded for their efforts.

there must be towns with one factory as the only employer that’s closed down and left the towns people as career beneficiaries.

an entire populous existing like that would be my guess.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

there must be towns with one factory as the only employer that’s closed down and left the towns people as career beneficiaries.

an entire populous existing like that would be my guess.

On a large scale, Detroit is a pretty good example of what happens when key industry closes down.

Perhaps that’s the Utopia that our socialist/communist advocates on this thread envision.

 

[Rick O’Shay]

On a large scale, Detroit is a pretty good example of what happens when key industry closes down.

Perhaps that’s the Utopia that our socialist/communist advocates on this thread envision.

Except under the socialist system, the factories never shut down. They just stockpile the goods that aren't sold or bury them. Nothing given away, which is somewhat ironic.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Except under the socialist system, the factories never shut down. They just stockpile the goods that aren't sold or bury them. Nothing given away, which is somewhat ironic.

Perhaps, however eventually, because all the innovators and risk takers have up and left the country because they weren’t incentivised to stay, then there wont be enough tax revenue left to support the factories. Then the shit really hits the fan, unemployment spikes, crime escalates and you are left with something like Detroit.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Perhaps, however eventually, because all the innovators and risk takers have up and left the country because they weren’t incentivised to stay, then there wont be enough tax revenue left to support the factories. Then the shit really hits the fan, unemployment spikes, crime escalates and you are left with something like Detroit.

No more like South Africa Id say

 

[juju]

there must be towns with one factory as the only employer that’s closed down and left the towns people as career beneficiaries.

an entire populous existing like that would be my guess.

Imagine a whole population incentivised to lazily invest in property rather than productive investments... oh