Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[juju]

On a large scale, Detroit is a pretty good example of what happens when key industry closes down.

Perhaps that’s the Utopia that our socialist/communist advocates on this thread envision.

Neoliberalism is what ruined the car industry in Detroit...

 

[marv.]

Imagine a whole population incentivised to lazily invest in property rather than productive investments... oh

agreed, but property investment is only one of many avenues in NZ to building wealth.

do you think we’re better off dragging everyone back to make it fair on those lagging at the tail end of the race?
or should we be working on getting those at the tail end caught up to the rest of the pack?

hardly even any incentive to train let alone race if first place gets the same prize as last place, is there?

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Neoliberalism is what ruined the car industry in Detroit...

I don’t know much about the drivers of the car industry decline there, however a quick google search suggests Union protected low-quality workers producing low quality output was a major problem.

 

[juju]

agreed, but property investment is only one of many avenues in NZ to building wealth.

do you think we’re better off dragging everyone back to make it fair on those lagging at the tail end of the race?
or should we be working on getting those at the tail end caught up to the rest of the pack?

hardly even any incentive to train let alone race if first place gets the same prize as last place, is there?

Who said anything back?

Property investment isn't just one of the avenues, it's the main avenue,
Just look at the MPs declared assets for instance (or who funds the ruling party)

Don't you think this inhibits innovation when the system incentives parking money in property?

Who said drag everybody back?

This thread is such a shambles when you can have values like wanting affordable housing for all, equal opportunities for all children, policy centred around the environment and get accused of being a communist.

 

[juju]

I don’t know much about the drivers of the car industry decline there, however a quick google search suggests Union protected low-quality workers producing low quality output was a major problem.

Want happened in Detroit is text book neoliberalism...

So we can see the impact neoliberalism has on societies in a case study right there.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Who said anything back?

Property investment isn't just one of the avenues, it's the main avenue,
Just look at the MPs declared assets for instance (or who funds the ruling party)

Don't you think this inhibits innovation when the system incentives parking money in property?

Who said drag everybody back?

This thread is such a shambles when you can have values like wanting affordable housing for all, equal opportunities for all children, policy centred around the environment and get accused of being a communist.

Alternatively, it’s a pretty sad situation when successful people that work hard, have good values and, importantly, already support those less well off, are further disincentivised to live in this country.

 

[juju]

Alternatively, it’s a pretty sad situation when successful people that work hard, have good values and, importantly, already support those less well off, are further disincentivised to live in this country.

How are they disincentives exactly? - by low wages and high property prices?

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

How are they disincentives exactly? - by low wages and high property prices?

By the policies that the left are targeting. Wealth taxes, etc.

 

[marv.]

Who said anything back?

Property investment isn't just one of the avenues, it's the main avenue,
Just look at the MPs declared assets for instance (or who funds the ruling party)

Don't you think this inhibits innovation when the system incentives parking money in property?

Who said drag everybody back?

This thread is such a shambles when you can have values like wanting affordable housing for all, equal opportunities for all children, policy centred around the environment and get accused of being a communist.

i’m sure everybody wants all of those things. i know i do.
but we don’t have to vilify and penalize those working hard, taking risks, creating, and making to get them.

i’m a firm believer in the harder you work, the bigger the reward.

no property investor i know has accidentally got rich, i assure you its not the jump on the gravy train and take a free ride and steal from the poor that some here seem to think it is.

you first need to earn a lot of money to even be able to take on the debt and
there’s a LOT of hard work involved in getting to a point where you can even begin, let alone ongoing costs, burden of debt. providing somewhere warm dry and safe (as per HHS) for someone who doesn’t ever want to own or can’t for whatever reason.
not to mention the fucking stress of things like having your investment trashed. $44k in damages with all the walls punched in and no rent paid for 3 months all for the tenancy tribunal to rule the debt be repayed to you at $5 a week of which you see $0.

real easy job, yeah.

 

[juju]

By the policies that the left are targeting. Wealth taxes, etc.

People are leaving the country about the possibility of a wealth tax?

And not because of low wages, the price of houses & the cost of living crisis.... really?

 

[MrFrankWhite]

agreed, but property investment is only one of many avenues in NZ to building wealth.

do you think we’re better off dragging everyone back to make it fair on those lagging at the tail end of the race?
or should we be working on getting those at the tail end caught up to the rest of the pack?

hardly even any incentive to train let alone race if first place gets the same prize as last place, is there?

Only through incentives though. Dutch thought tulips were an investment vehicle. People think crypto is.

 

[juju]

i’m sure everybody wants all of those things. i know i do.
but we don’t have to vilify and penalize those working hard, taking risks, creating, and making to get them.

i’m a firm believer in the harder you work, the bigger the reward.

no property investor i know has accidentally got rich, i assure you its not the jump on the gravy train and take a free ride and steal from the poor that some here seem to think it is.

you first need to earn a lot of money to even be able to take on the debt and
there’s a LOT of hard work involved in getting to a point where you can even begin, let alone ongoing costs, burden of debt. providing somewhere warm dry and safe (as per HHS) for someone who doesn’t ever want to own or can’t for whatever reason.
not to mention the fucking stress of things like having your investment trashed. $44k in damages with all the walls punched in and no rent paid for 3 months all for the tenancy tribunal to rule the debt be repayed to you at $5 a week of which you see $0.

real easy job, yeah.

How exactly is being penalised?

The point is property investment / speculation was made too attractive by cheap money and house prices going up & up

Your example - sounds a lot easier than starting an innovative business that adds to productivity - and here in lies the problem.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

People are leaving the country about the possibility of a wealth tax?

And not because of low wages, the price of houses & the cost of living crisis.... really?

I’m looking ahead with my concerns about the left’s policies and my comment that it would further disincentivise our most valuable asset - smart, successful people - to stay in NZ. I agree, things are already far from perfect.

 

[marv.]

Your example - sounds a lot easier than starting an innovative business that adds to productivity - and here in lies the problem.

i can tell you from my own experience, that starting from scratch in my spare time before and after work, weekends, basically any time i wasn’t tattooing, and building from nothing my company that was probably around 90% international sales and earned me the money to start buying property in the first place was far less stressful than buying rundown houses, renovating and bringing up to HHS myself, and providing homes for people.

much MUCH less stressful.

 

[juju]

i can tell you from my own experience, that starting from scratch in my spare time before and after work, weekends, basically any time i wasn’t tattooing, and building from nothing my company that was probably around 90% international sales and earned me the money to start buying property in the first place was far less stressful than buying rundown houses, renovating and bringing up to HHS myself, and providing homes for people.

much MUCH less stressful.

Man all those politicians who own houses must be really stressed out then... No wonder Luxon has no hair.

Good for you and your hustle - it doesn't mean they settings & circumstances around housing were all wrong and shifted from a human need to a get rich quick scheme for the haves the last 25 years in NZ.
Why are landlords so quick to think they're being vilified when the mere suggestions of changes are raised.

 

[marv.]

Man all those politicians who own houses must be really stressed out then... No wonder Luxon has no hair.

Good for you and your hustle - it doesn't mean they settings & circumstances around housing were all wrong and shifted from a human need to a get rich quick scheme for the haves the last 25 years in NZ.
Why are landlords so quick to think they're being vilified when the mere suggestions of changes are raised.

i don’t feel vilified, and also sorry if it came across that way but i didn’t mean you personally were vilifying anyone.

the rules are constantly set and changed and re set by governments and there’s little you, i, or anyone else can do about it.
my suggestion to any and all is work your hardest to get your bit within whatever the rules re at the time because we all know that whichever government is in power, they’re not going to give us enough to live in retirement so it’s up to us to get ourselves sorted by then.

EVERYONE is capable of bettering their situation.
you can start with as little as reading every day. read anything! get your literacy up, then on to something else. upskill. fucking learn something, anything, whatever.
but doing nothing and complaining about it while having the government pay/subsidize/incentivizing people to stay poor and helpless isn’t really helping us move forward as a society.

 

[juju]

i don’t feel vilified, and also sorry if it came across that way but i didn’t mean you personally were vilifying anyone.

the rules are constantly set and changed and re set by governments and there’s little you, i, or anyone else can do about it.
my suggestion to any and all is work your hardest to get your bit within whatever the rules re at the time because we all know that whichever government is in power, they’re not going to give us enough to live in retirement so it’s up to us to get ourselves sorted by then.

EVERYONE is capable of bettering their situation.
you can start with as little as reading every day. read anything! get your literacy up, then on to something else. upskill. fucking learn something, anything, whatever.
but doing nothing and complaining about it while having the government pay/subsidize/incentivizing people to stay poor and helpless isn’t really helping us move forward as a society.

NZ is small enough that you can effect change.
It's a very defeatist and individualistic mindset to think otherwise.
The settings have been geared to the detriment of the country and the property industry has PAID for too much influence within right wing politics here.

OF COURSE everyone is capable of bettering themselves, but that doesn't acknowledge how far some people start behind and why that may be the case. It's a callous society that doesn't confront and address that.

 

[marv.]

NZ is small enough that you can effect change.
It's a very defeatist and individualistic mindset to think otherwise.
The settings have been geared to the detriment of the country and the property industry has PAID for too much influence within right wing politics here.

OF COURSE everyone is capable of bettering themselves, but that doesn't acknowledge how far some people start behind and why that may be the case. It's a callous society that doesn't confront and address that.

it may be defeatist but it’s realistic.
people have wanted to topple the wealthy and eat the rich etc forever yet here we are.

and agreed, society absolutely is callous.
life’s never been fair. and i’d wager it never will be.
so again, my suggestion is we play within the rules to get our lot because no one’s going to save us.

 

[juju]

Seymour fronts up on Snapchats with school kids

There is no suggestion the contents of Seymour's messages were inappropriate, but people who corresponded with him when they were in school say the interactions shouldn't have happened.

newsroom.co.nz

 

[marv.]

Seymour fronts up on Snapchats with school kids

There is no suggestion the contents of Seymour's messages were inappropriate, but people who corresponded with him when they were in school say the interactions shouldn't have happened.

newsroom.co.nz

man he’s slimy.