Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[miket12]

Interested to hear your thoughts on this miket12.
Petrol stations are not financed by taxpayers.
Why then should taxpayers front for charging stations.
Why not electricity suppliers and ev manufacturers?
Have I missed something here
Asking you particularly because I respect your opinion

I think the RUC’s for BEV’s. (Considering the cost of providing the infrastructure) is right…. it looks as if the advise to both the current and previous governments was that BEV’s should have an “excise” of 50 cents for their impact on roads plus 26 cents for the new charging infrastructure.

Where I think they have got it wrong is with plug in hybrids. Most of them only have a relatively short range (a Mitusbishi Outlander will only get around 40km per charge) yet they’ll get hit with both the $53 charge (plus admin fee) per 1000km plus around $50 petrol excise per 1000km. That’s over $100 per 1000km compared to $76 per 1000km for a Tesla or $42 for a Toyota Rav 4 Hybrid per 1000km.

 

[John Nick]

I think the RUC’s for BEV’s. (Considering the cost of providing the infrastructure) is right…. it looks as if the advise to both the current and previous governments was that BEV’s should have an “excise” of 50 cents for their impact on roads plus 26 cents for the new charging infrastructure.

Where I think they have got it wrong is with plug in hybrids. Most of them only have a relatively short range (a Mitusbishi Outlander will only get around 40km per charge) yet they’ll get hit with both the $53 charge (plus admin fee) per 1000km plus around $50 petrol excise per 1000km. That’s over $100 per 1000km compared to $76 per 1000km for a Tesla or $42 for a Toyota Rav 4 Hybrid per 1000km.

Thanks mate.
However the cost of establishing the charging stations falls back on the taxpayer.
Shouldn't the ev manufacturers and the electricity suppliers have some burden

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Some just can't see the forest for the trees. Because they can't their solution is to cut down the trees. By the time they realise their mistake we're treeless and forestless.

This is actually deep and meaningful to me and a current conflict within myself.

I’ve recently been clearing some tall natives on a property and it pains my soul, the conflict between nature and progress…

Ahhhh… they are just trees… or is that just my selfish short term thinking

I’ll just put some bike parks in and offset the loses

 

[John Nick]

This is actually deep and meaningful to me and a current conflict within myself.

I’ve recently been clearing some tall natives on a property and it pains my soul, the conflict between nature and progress…

Ahhhh… they are just trees… or is that just my selfish short term thinking

I’ll just put some bike parks in and offset the loses

Are you going to grow some hooch there Wiz. I can keep an eye out for the cops helicopters

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Thanks mate.
However the cost of establishing the charging stations falls back on the taxpayer.
Shouldn't the ev manufacturers and the electricity suppliers have some burden

Why don’t you have to use a swipe card to active them eg credit card/ Apple Pay/ Tesla card?

Pay $10 or whatever to charge at a public charger. Why isn’t it user pays?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Are you going to grow some hooch there Wiz. I can keep an eye out for the cops helicopters

Bigger plans than that mate!

Buying my own digger asap!

 

[John Nick]

Bigger plans than that mate!

Coke!!

 

[Rizzah]

Not against RUC for BEVs and hybrids etc - But also, aren't we trying to incentivise EV uptake to help transition the national fleet?
This feels counter-intuitive to emission aims.

If anything this was probably a good opportunity to review the RUC scheme. Maye put in a lower tier to incentivise purchasing smaller vehicles. Roll all cars onto the RUC scheme and remove the petrol tax.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Coke!!

Yep, we will sell the fizzy stuff!

 

[Rizzah]

Why don’t you have to use a swipe card to active them eg credit card/ Apple Pay/ Tesla card?

Pay $10 or whatever to charge at a public charger. Why isn’t it user pays?

The EV owner still has to pay for the electricity used to charge the battery.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

The EV owner still has to pay for the electricity used to charge the battery.

At public chargers? I honestly don’t know.

Can’t they put a slight markup on to cover the infrastructure?

 

[John Nick]

At public chargers? I honestly don’t know.

Can’t they put a slight markup on to cover the infrastructure?

I am sure that will happen but with no input from the manufacturer and the supplier.

 

[Rizzah]

At public chargers? I honestly don’t know.

Can’t they put a slight markup on to cover the infrastructure?

The charging stations are owned by companies. I think ChargeNet is the largest?
I believe PaknSave offer free charging at their charging stations.

Public Charging Prices​

CHARGING NETWORK	AC PER KWH	DC PER KWH	PER MINUTE CHARGE	IDLE FEES
ChargeNet	$0.40	$0.80 – $0.85	–	$1 / minute*
OpenLoop (includes WEL networks)		$0.24 – $0.50	$0.24 +	–
Z Energy		$0.69	–	–
Hikotron	$0.50	–	–	–
BP		$0.70	–	–
Zero (Meridian)	$0.50
Jolt	Free**	$0.50
Jump Charging		$0.75
Tesla Supercharger***		Varies (0.40 – 0.85c). Check Tesla app for pricing		$1 – $2 / minute

 

[miket12]

Not against RUC for BEVs and hybrids etc - But also, aren't we trying to incentivise EV uptake to help transition the national fleet?
This feels counter-intuitive to emission aims.

If anything this was probably a good opportunity to review the RUC scheme. Maye put in a lower tier to incentivise purchasing smaller vehicles. Roll all cars onto the RUC scheme and remove the petrol tax.

Apparently Treasury did the numbers. Because people with Hybrids and ICE vehicles average more Kms per year than BEV’s, removing all the fuel taxes and replacing them with RUC’s wouldn‘t have provided enough revenue as the government would receive under the new scheme and existing fuel taxes. Unfortunately, the bottom line, as typical of our governments, is money.

Interestingly, one large cargo ship supposedly creates more greenhouse gases each year than 50 million ICE cars. Maybe we’re focusing in the wrong direction and instead of being concerned about ICE vs BEV vs PHEV vs HEV and looking at shipping moving away from the heavy fuel they use.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

The charging stations are owned by companies. I think ChargeNet is the largest?
I believe PaknSave offer free charging at their charging stations.

Public Charging Prices​

CHARGING NETWORK	AC PER KWH	DC PER KWH	PER MINUTE CHARGE	IDLE FEES
ChargeNet	$0.40	$0.80 – $0.85	–	$1 / minute*
OpenLoop (includes WEL networks)		$0.24 – $0.50	$0.24 +	–
Z Energy		$0.69	–	–
Hikotron	$0.50	–	–	–
BP		$0.70	–	–
Zero (Meridian)	$0.50
Jolt	Free**	$0.50
Jump Charging		$0.75
Tesla Supercharger***		Varies (0.40 – 0.85c). Check Tesla app for pricing		$1 – $2 / minute

If private companies provide the infrastructure then why is the govt investing in it?

Trying to get my head around this as it’s all new to me.

 

[Rizzah]

If private companies provide the infrastructure then why is the govt investing in it?

Trying to get my head around this as it’s all new to me.

Always good to have the Govt in control of critical infrastructure, imagine they will be slightly cheaper as well with the govt having different profit motives.
Whether it will happen or not, we'll wait an see.

 

[Juno]

This is actually deep and meaningful to me and a current conflict within myself.

I’ve recently been clearing some tall natives on a property and it pains my soul, the conflict between nature and progress…

Ahhhh… they are just trees… or is that just my selfish short term thinking

I’ll just put some bike parks in and offset the loses

What you take away you should give back. Like for like as much as possible. Cutting down natives affect habitats, birdlife, insects, and other ecosystems.
In other words, if you are cutting down natives for real, make sure you know what you are changing forever in that place and replant to make up for it as best you can.
You 've heard the saying "a butterfly flaps its wings"? Or in scientific teerms "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". It may not be in your face visible but you start a not necessarily visible chain of events.
A lot of people view native trees like introduced ones but they're not.
If its for the value of the wood at the very least you are short-sighted. If its to grow a business money-making venture, its selfish if you don't at the very least try to put back what you take.
I know you probably won't listen, maybe not even care, I just know the cutting down of native trees has consequences for us all over time.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

What you take away give back.
In other words, if you are cutting down natives for real, make sure you know what you are changing forever in that place and replant to make up for it as best you can.
You 've heard the saying "a butterfly flaps its wings"? Or in scintific teerms "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". It may not be in your face visible but you,ve started a chain of events.
A lot of people view native trees like introduced ones but they're not.
If its for the value of the wood at the very least you are short-sighted. If its to grow a business money-making venture, its selfish if you don't at least try to put back what you take.
I know you probably won't listen, maybe not even care, I just know the cutting down of native trees has consequences for us all over time.

It’s for real. You can cut down natives but you can’t sell the logs or wood. So definitely not for the money.

It is for a business. Unfortunate their located too close to buildings and infrastructure. We are very environmentally aware and are planting more replacements than we’re removing.

But I still do feel torn taking out huge trees.

 

[Juno]

It’s for real. You can cut down natives but you can’t sell the logs or wood. So definitely not for the money.

It is for a business. Unfortunate their located too close to buildings and infrastructure. We are very environmentally aware and are planting more replacements than we’re removing.

But I still do feel torn taking out huge trees.

I see the conumdrum.
Great that you feel it and have a reasonable reason for felling them.
I can only say gift them to local iwi who will transform them into meaningful pieces, surprised (well maybe not) that they aren't involved anyway. Your solutions for replacement go a long way towards doing the right thing.

 

[kos]

Apparently Treasury did the numbers. Because people with Hybrids and ICE vehicles average more Kms per year than BEV’s, removing all the fuel taxes and replacing them with RUC’s wouldn‘t have provided enough revenue as the government would receive under the new scheme and existing fuel taxes. Unfortunately, the bottom line, as typical of our governments, is money.

Interestingly, one large cargo ship supposedly creates more greenhouse gases each year than 50 million ICE cars. Maybe we’re focusing in the wrong direction and instead of being concerned about ICE vs BEV vs PHEV vs HEV and looking at shipping moving away from the heavy fuel they use.

Shipping is moving
To
Lng
Methanol

Two alt fuels that new build ships run