Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[miket12]

I think it’s a stupid idea to totally repeal the smoking legislation. Although this is only based on a limited amount I’ve read in the media, things like the location of vaping stores, tighter controls on what’s in vapes, decreasing the amount of Nicotine in cigarettes all seem really good ideas.

The only aspect I’m not that keen on was increasing the age restrictions to outright ban the sale of cigarettes to people, no matter their age, born after a certain year.

Just my opinion but they should have looked at removing from and altering the legislation the parts they didn’t like instead of abandoning the Act altogether or, at last, given an outline as to what they may be replacing it with.

Unfortunately, the only real winners will be the tobacco companies and the resellers selling their products.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Is this satire?

Democracy mate with MMP thrown in there.

It’s what the majority voted for so I respect that and am looking positively to the future

 

[Inruin]

One thing out of that original article that was missed by the Nat supporters is that the charity was susceptible to abuse. Counselors can charge whatever they want (some were charging up to $300 an hour) but worse than that was the fact anyone could go make claims without any checks. That wasn't the exact wording but it was the gist of it and I'm too lazy to go back to the original post and reread the article .
That was what the original poster was pointing out I believe it was conventionally ignored.

It's not necessarily Nat supporters making the comment. Any funded system is open to abuse. ACC for example. It is strange that after the number of money scrambles over the last few years with no checks and balances or accountability that a service delivering for youth mental health is being alienated. It's also great to see Mental health being taken a bit more seriously by a government and we now have a Minister for Mental health appointed. They deliver faster services, they are dealing with referrals from DHBs because of demand and wait times. Average cost is around $150 a session I believe. More recent articles below and Luxon backing it up. It was a promise he made during the election campaign that he would fund Gumboot Friday and has

Gumboot Friday: Complacency kills - Kiwi kids need youth counselling now more than ever as demand soars

I Am Hope founder Mike King and co prepare for their annual fundraiser, calling for more support.

www.teaonews.co.nz

Gumboot Friday Is Back

Mental health advocate and former New Zealander of the year, Mike King is calling on Kiwis to put on their gumboots on May 28th to raise awareness and much-needed funds to improve kids’ mental health in New Zealand. Gumboot Friday is back for ...

www.google.com

The Rock: NZ's best rock radio station

The home of The Rock 2000, The Morning Rumble and The Rock Drive with Jay & Dunc, Not For Radio, The No Repeat Workday, and just all round good bants.

www.therock.net.nz

 

[MaybeTop8]

Democracy mate with MMP thrown in there.

It’s what the majority voted for so I respect that and am looking positively to the future

National's main policy, which was discredited by a number of senior economists, has now had the main source of funding cancelled by Nz First. So now they have to fund a bribe that is a disguise to funnel riches upwards and allow other policies for the housing lobby to flow through by swinging cuts that will affect and hurt the poorest and middle in our society.

No one with a conscience voted for that. National didn't campaign on that.

No one voted for the tobacco lobby to have their wishes pushed through as policy.

The coalition didn't campaign on that.

LIes, lies, and corruption.

 

[Inruin]

National's main policy, which was discredited by a number of senior economists, has now had the main source of funding cancelled by Nz First. So now they have to fund a bribe that is a disguise to funnel riches upwards and allow other policies for the housing lobby to flow through by swinging cuts that will affect and hurt the poorest and middle in our society.

No one with a conscience voted for that. National didn't campaign on that.

No one voted for the tobacco lobby to have their wishes pushed through as policy.

The coalition didn't campaign on that.

LIes, lies, and corruption.

Is there anything you do like from the coalition agreements? Do you have the same disdain for the left who have allowed vaping to become such a massive issue over the last 6 years? Or the previous government ignoring economic advice on policies that have driven inflation, rent and interest rates up that hurt low to middle income earners the most?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

I am surprised the 4 year term is being pushed into the media today. A nothing policy that everyone pretty much agrees on.

We’ve just got a huge comprehensive merging of 3 parties policies but… Look over here at this distraction we want you to talk about

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

National's main policy, which was discredited by a number of senior economists, has now had the main source of funding cancelled by Nz First. So now they have to fund a bribe that is a disguise to funnel riches upwards and allow other policies for the housing lobby to flow through by swinging cuts that will affect and hurt the poorest and middle in our society.

No one with a conscience voted for that. National didn't campaign on that.

No one voted for the tobacco lobby to have their wishes pushed through as policy.

The coalition didn't campaign on that.

LIes, lies, and corruption.

Even though we sit on different sides of the fence im actually with you with a lot of underlying questions over capitalism and democracy.

Im economically right but very socially left and it’s how best to benefit everyone that I think a lot about. Does a strong (pro business) economy flow to the people? Do you get that if focusing to much on the people, weakens business and long term potentially makes everyone poorer?

Ponder this, which I have been reflecting on. Left politics is for the collective; against small business as their policies naturally require large businesses with specialist knowledge to handle the H&S requirements; collective bargaining, fair pay agreements, capital investment to replace higher wage staff, etc. Do those left policies, whose complex regulations result in promoting big business and reduce the small players, actually reduces competition, innovation and pools money to the wealthy and capital owning elite?

Fundamentally do we want NZ to be a competitive small business incubator that grows and provides a bigger economy with higher paying jobs long term or transform into a more mature communal big business economy where risk and flexibility is reduced? Are big business a driver of haves and have nots in the country?

It’s a lot more complex than all this but I see the last governments policies counterintuitively as being a big contributor to decreasing the spread of wealth across the economy and to the workers. I see unions and collective agreements as actually a way to confine employees in a pay band. I see productivity decreasing, less value for government spending and our best leaving for overseas opportunity.

I think the key is to have strong businesses and somehow drive that growth and productivity to the employers in a win/win situation. It was a failure to drive more to the employees by simply weaken businesses without promoting business resilience and health.

I don’t know the answers but I know the last governments policies failed and it’s time for fresh thinking.

 

[Cces]

I realise Winston is just committing to his pre election promise on another Covid Inquiry, but what would be a positive outcome for him considering he was the DP when lockdown first occurred, committed to purchasing vaccines before they even became available & publicly stated "no dole, no parole" for those who chose not to be vaccinated?

 

[MaybeTop8]

Is there anything you do like from the coalition agreements? Do you have the same disdain for the left who have allowed vaping to become such a massive issue over the last 6 years? Or the previous government ignoring economic advice on policies that have driven inflation, rent and interest rates up that hurt low to middle income earners the most?

Absolutely the previous government has betrayed a traditional labour party that should have implemented progressive policies. I do wonder how entrenched the neoliberal ideology is in the public service and how that may have prevented anything from being implemented, but also...well.....Labour were hugely shit. Politely, incompetent

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

I realise Winston is just committing to his pre election promise on another Covid Inquiry, but what would be a positive outcome for him considering he was the DP when lockdown first occurred, committed to purchasing vaccines before they even became available & even stated "no dole, no parole" for those who chose not to be vaccinated?

It’s purely politics as a big part of his voter block he targeted we’re anti establishment.

He was down in Wellington at the protests and is doing his job for his voters.

I think it will all end up like the promises to be the first person to walk into the Pike River mine. Nothing much comes of it…

 

[MaybeTop8]

Even though we sit on different sides of the fence im actually with you with a lot of underlying questions over capitalism and democracy.

Im economically right but very socially left and it’s how best to benefit everyone that I think a lot about. Does a strong (pro business) economy flow to the people? Do you get that if focusing to much on the people, weakens business and long term potentially makes everyone poorer?

Ponder this, which I have been reflecting on. Left politics is for the collective; against small business as their policies naturally require large businesses with specialist knowledge to handle the H&S requirements; collective bargaining, fair pay agreements, capital investment to replace higher wage staff, etc. Do those left policies, whose complex regulations result in promoting big business and reduce the small players, actually reduces competition, innovation and pools money to the wealthy and capital owning elite?

Fundamentally do we want NZ to be a competitive small business incubator that grows and provides a bigger economy with higher paying jobs long term or transform into a more mature communal big business economy where risk and flexibility is reduced? Are big business a driver of haves and have nots in the country?

It’s a lot more complex than all this but I see the last governments policies counterintuitively as being a big contributor to decreasing the spread of wealth across the economy and to the workers. I see unions and collective agreements as actually a way to confine employees in a pay band. I see productivity decreasing, less value for government spending and our best leaving for overseas opportunity.

I think the key is to have strong businesses and somehow drive that growth and productivity to the employers in a win/win situation. It was a failure to drive more to the employees by simply weaken businesses without promoting business resilience and health.

I don’t know the answers but I know the last governments policies failed and it’s time for fresh thinking.

Appreciate the reply and candour, and great thinking. Unfortunately the only thinking this coalition has on it's mind is to speed up the failures of the last 40 years in terms of equality and progressive policy.

But that's what their backers want. This is who they are.

 

[snake77]

I realise Winston is just committing to his pre election promise on another Covid Inquiry, but what would be a positive outcome for him considering he was the DP when lockdown first occurred, committed to purchasing vaccines before they even became available & even stated "no dole, no parole" for those who chose not to be vaccinated?

Winston's career is fill of contradictions. His stance on something is the polar opposite on what it was years ago. Some you can brush off like anyone that it's been years perspectives changed.

But with the pandemic years you get this contradiction in the topics within the space of a few years. Minister MP Peters in 2020 was all we need to be cautious, this is an unprecedented environment. A year or so later and he's kicked out of parliament he's down with the protestors saying how the whole pandemic is an overreaction.

 

[MaybeTop8]

It’s purely politics as a big part of his voter block he targeted we’re anti establishment.

He was down in Wellington at the protests and is doing his job for his voters.

I think it will all end up like the promises to be the first person to walk into the Pike River mine. Nothing much comes of it…

Pike River is a tragic example of deregulation - and this incoming government want to dismantle even more. The leaky buildings disaster has cost untold misery, not to mention $50b and climbing and National and Act are promising to dismantle the barest of protections.

And for what? Ideology sure, but there's backers who will stand to gain billions, while again, the costs are socialised and will affect this country for decades.

Honestly, this isn't about tribalism - it's about fairness, and looking forwards progressively. It's about not fucking over many generations to come, which unfortunately we and the ones before us have.

We need to get away from this kind of short sighted destructive thinking.

Congestion charge is another example - the Auckland Employers and Manufacturers are interviewed saying they think it's a good idea, someone needs to pay for their trucks, and public transport will take forever to be built. Yet they and others of their ilk have fought and blocked public transort for the last 80 years.

My only hope is that the younger generations will step in and kick the old conyism out.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Pike River is a tragic example of deregulation - and this incoming government want to dismantle even more. The leaky buildings disaster has cost untold misery, not to mention $50b and climbing and National and Act are promising to dismantle the barest of protections.

And for what? Ideology sure, but there's backers who will stand to gain billions, while again, the costs are socialised and will affect this country for decades.

Honestly, this isn't about tribalism - it's about fairness, and looking forwards progressively. It's about not fucking over many generations to come, which unfortunately we and the ones before us have.

We need to get away from this kind of short sighted destructive thinking.

Congestion charge is another example - the Auckland Employers and Manufacturers are interviewed saying they think it's a good idea, someone needs to pay for their trucks, and public transport will take forever to be built. Yet they and others of their ilk have fought and blocked public transort for the last 80 years.

My only hope is that the younger generations will step in and kick the old conyism out.

Not Jeremy Coney. Dang keyboard

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Appreciate the reply and candour, and great thinking. Unfortunately the only thinking this coalition has on it's mind is to speed up the failures of the last 40 years in terms of equality and progressive policy.

But that's what their backers want. This is who they are.

I actually fear we’re heading for failure but it’s from both sides.

We used to have a single income provider able to support a family plus pay off a house.

Now everyone works longer hours than ever and can’t afford a house let alone the homelessness, poverty, falling education, etc.

Again it’s a bigger picture around population, spread of resources and if urbanism and higher density actually benefits everyone.

It’s a worldwide issue that’s bigger than left/ right politics

 

[MaybeTop8]

I actually fear we’re heading for failure but it’s from both sides.

We used to have a single income provider able to support a family plus pay off a house.

Now everyone works longer hours than ever and can’t afford a house let alone the homelessness, poverty, falling education, etc.

Again it’s a bigger picture around population, spread of resources and if urbanism and higher density actually benefits everyone.

It’s a worldwide issue that’s bigger than left/ right politics

Agree, and there's a class war on - the concentration of wealth allowing billionaires undemocratic manipulations is extremely dangerous.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Some good journalism here - https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/10/31/chiding-in-plain-sight/

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Congestion charge is another example - the Auckland Employers and Manufacturers are interviewed saying they think it's a good idea, someone needs to pay for their trucks, and public transport will take forever to be built. Yet they and others of their ilk have fought and blocked public transort for the last 80 years.

My town (it’s not a city) of Tauranga wants congestion charging as well.

How can a town of 140k people need congestion charging? Our public transport is in its infancy because we don’t have the density and it simply can’t provide a workable solution for most people.

Cities need to evolve and go through stages and forcing public transport or congestion charges to early for the city size is set to make the citizens simply suffer.

 

[juju]

I think it’s a stupid idea to totally repeal the smoking legislation. Although this is only based on a limited amount I’ve read in the media, things like the location of vaping stores, tighter controls on what’s in vapes, decreasing the amount of Nicotine in cigarettes all seem really good ideas.

The only aspect I’m not that keen on was increasing the age restrictions to outright ban the sale of cigarettes to people, no matter their age, born after a certain year.

Just my opinion but they should have looked at removing from and altering the legislation the parts they didn’t like instead of abandoning the Act altogether or, at last, given an outline as to what they may be replacing it with.

Unfortunately, the only real winners will be the tobacco companies and the resellers selling their products.

Turns out it this was in the NZF manifesto, just not really a talking point during campaigning.

It's really something to see a policy lauded by health professionals here and internationally, adopted in the UK by a Tory Government with the UK PM already mentioning they're keeping their policy despite the news from the new government.

Inruin can you stop pretending you're more qualified on the topic than health professionals now - it's not your favourite teams policy, just a turd they were forced to swallow in the negotiations.

While you're on your high horse about vaping - the Act Party actually ran a petition last year called "Freedom to Vape"
And voted against stronger restrictions on vaping. So quit the sanctimonious BS.

 

[Inruin]

Turns out it this was in the NZF manifesto, just not really a talking point during campaigning.

It's really something to see a policy lauded by health professionals here and internationally, adopted in the UK by a Tory Government with the UK PM already mentioning they're keeping their policy despite the news from the new government.

Inruin can you stop pretending you're more qualified on the topic than health professionals now - it's not your favourite teams policy, just a turd they were forced to swallow in the negotiations.

While you're on your high horse about vaping - the Act Party actually ran a petition last year called "Freedom to Vape"
And voted against stronger restrictions on vaping. So quit the sanctimonious BS.

Not claiming to be more knowledgeable than health professionals. And don't really care what ACT petitioned on. The previous government (that's the people in charge of the country and who make the decisions at the time) allowed vaping to become the issue that it is now. The coalition agreement is rightly going to be stronger on this. I am glad they are. Seems like the sanctimonious BS is coming from you when the previous governments have done far worse yet here you are critising a government that hasn't been sworn in yet that has already promised to do more about it. But hey, you do you.