End of the day we’re arguing over 1 & 2, both greats that are & will be immortals most likely along with Cleary & Slater. The rest I don’t think get there.
NRL Who’s the greatest player 2000 to current?
- Thread starter wizard of Tauranga
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Was a while ago but I seem to remember if Joey was out the knights tended to lose- don’t remember another player basically carrying his team more than him.
Another factor against Cam Smith is he should never have had the team assembled around him that he did for many years. Yes they lost a few after the cap rort but they still kept players they should never have been able to get/keep in the first place
Because I am "new to league" and can't see nuances as well as you guys can. I don't rate Cam Smith that highly on this list.
I think he gets kudos for being a goal kicking hooker which is rare, and being a general play kicker which is also rare for a hooker. He must be one of a handful of hookers who have ever kicked a 40/20 and I would guess would have at least ten of them.
I don't think he was much of a running threat and his passing service in terms of how crisp was not elite and no better than any other hooker and his defence might have been in the top third of hookers but he wasn't the best.
The thing he was truly a GOAT at was talking to and influencing the ref and I don't think he should get credit for that.
I think he gets kudos for being a goal kicking hooker which is rare, and being a general play kicker which is also rare for a hooker. He must be one of a handful of hookers who have ever kicked a 40/20 and I would guess would have at least ten of them.
I don't think he was much of a running threat and his passing service in terms of how crisp was not elite and no better than any other hooker and his defence might have been in the top third of hookers but he wasn't the best.
The thing he was truly a GOAT at was talking to and influencing the ref and I don't think he should get credit for that.
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- #45
I think his strength was picking the right option every time. Elite footy IQ.
Although that’s probably easier when deciding between passing to Cronk, or Slater…
Firstly i've got to hard disagree on his ability to talk to the ref not being a major reason as to why he could be considered in the GOAT category. Knowing exactly where the line is when talking to officals, knowing the rules inside out and knowing how to frame illegal actions as legal ones. The gift of the gab. All great captians have a small shard of that skill.
I personally think he was one of, if not the best defesnive hookers. He does what makes Egan and JFH great defenders better. Controls the ruck, lays on em, peels off at just the right time. Storm where never caught with there pants down when he was involved in the tackle. There defensive line was always set and the opposing dummyhalf never got momentum. Meaning the oppositon never got a chance against a broken line. And he was involved in most tackles, very often not the dominant one but always there.
Now pair that with just how standard he made the team. Never out injured, never suspended and bearly ever conciding an error/penalty. I think you've got one of the best defensive rocks of the game.
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Cam Smith is an interesting case. Totally see your point, Wrighty but I viewed him more as a footballer than an athlete, which let him get the most out of his skillset and helped his teams the most.
An exceptional game manager, with the ability to elevate those around him by pretty consistently taking the right option and executing with precision time and again - knew when and how to pass to make people better, sharp enough runner to take obvious chances, could make tackles, and a kicking game to take pressure off his halves. All of which helped them shine.
Add longevity and an exceptional winning record, it’s a solid resume.
There’s more exciting athletic hookers, sure - but how often do you see a reliable no 9 just nailing the assignment week in week out these days? It’s a blimming hard gig.
TL
R not sexy but reliable AF for aggggges- Thread starter
- #48
Cameron Smith has a winning record against every NRL club, international team and representative opponent. Every single opponent.
I’m not sure but I think that’s unique. (Johns had 4 opponents with a losing record against).
* a few international minnows he has a 1 win/ 1 loss record but never negative.
I’m not sure but I think that’s unique. (Johns had 4 opponents with a losing record against).
* a few international minnows he has a 1 win/ 1 loss record but never negative.
Johns is the best player I’ve seen, made the game look exceptionally easy and made a lot of his team look better than they were. Could defend well, great goal kicker and could exploit any weakness in any team.
The greatest player is Smith for me though. 430 games, three premierships, 4 runners up. Highest scorer in NRL history. 9 Dally M hooker of the year awards. 11 state of origin series wins.
The greatest player is Smith for me though. 430 games, three premierships, 4 runners up. Highest scorer in NRL history. 9 Dally M hooker of the year awards. 11 state of origin series wins.
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For a decent way into Smiths career I was arguing that Steve Walters was still the best hooker of all time… eventually I gave up on that one.
Cronk can claim the same, including a winning record over the Storm
Fittler is on the list as well and he played a larger portion of his career in the 90s instead of the 2000's.
Also a different player in those two decades. Started off as a young exciting player with a big step to more of a player who would sit back and help guide the team around the field and then make a play when it was needed. Or when he got an opportunity against a tired defence.
Also a much different player as he got older. Less mobile and played like a bigger body.
I know the change in style wasn't from 2000 on. It is just an easy guideline to point out how he changed as he matured, took on more responsibility as a captain, injuries took their toll etc.
If this was best player for 2000-2010 like a best of the 90s. Johns and Fittler would have a better case. Whereas like you stated the others have a wider body of work within the criteria timeframe.
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The number of Storm players in the list is quite telling. Cronk, Smith, Slater. Can even make a case for Inglis as well to be added. He just ended up surplus to requirements to get them through the cap drama.
Three of the best players within the same side. I'd tend to put Smith and Slater above Cronk in terms of likely immortals. But then Cronk manager to get two premierships after leaving the Storm. Sure, another stacked club, he still won though. He did one with a busted arm and if it wasn't a Grand Final likely wouldn't have played.
Cronk and Smith like Cleary are the best game managers of the modern era.
Smith could control the speed of the game. What is also underrated is his wrestling. The Storm were the masters of it and he was one of their best even being on the smaller side.
Slater was one of the most exciting players the game has seen. He was lightning quick when he first debuted. You could argue his passing wasn't great early in his career but he worked on it and it became a weapon. You could argue he changed the way fullbacks played. I can't recall if the fullback creating the extra number on attack and passing being something Lockyer did. If he did it wasn't something everyone copied like with Slater. It was still mainly how could are they with kick returns.
Three of the best players within the same side. I'd tend to put Smith and Slater above Cronk in terms of likely immortals. But then Cronk manager to get two premierships after leaving the Storm. Sure, another stacked club, he still won though. He did one with a busted arm and if it wasn't a Grand Final likely wouldn't have played.
Cronk and Smith like Cleary are the best game managers of the modern era.
Smith could control the speed of the game. What is also underrated is his wrestling. The Storm were the masters of it and he was one of their best even being on the smaller side.
Slater was one of the most exciting players the game has seen. He was lightning quick when he first debuted. You could argue his passing wasn't great early in his career but he worked on it and it became a weapon. You could argue he changed the way fullbacks played. I can't recall if the fullback creating the extra number on attack and passing being something Lockyer did. If he did it wasn't something everyone copied like with Slater. It was still mainly how could are they with kick returns.
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