Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[wizard of Tauranga]

All the focus on the billionaires is false flag stuff.

The real issue is setting a sound economic platform that rewards, promotes and backs success. You need success at scale and lifting all boat higher and a huge wealthy middle class.

Punitive and jealous policy just results in less business, growth and increasing standards of living. Things like a CGT don’t hit the billionaires, it just weakens the middle class even more.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Really inspirational article about Paul Kelly and a similar philosophy I’ve had to be relatively successful:

“If you get two people doing the same job, one is doing 40 hours and one is doing 60. If you’re doing 50% more of whatever you do, you’d have to say you start getting better at it. Because you’re getting better at it, you’re getting more productive per hour, aren’t you?

“So if you can become more productive and do more – it’s not like you’re just doing 50% more, you’re doing 100% more. Next minute you’re doing 200%, 300% more.”

“If you do more hours you’re going to make more money. And then if you work smart within those hours and do more hours, you make an absolute fortune. It’s just the way it is.”


And it’s not just about the money and productivity, you get experience at a phenomenal rate which sets you up for big success. Enjoy your holidays everyone, I’ve got work to do

 

[MaybeTop8]

Really inspirational article about Paul Kelly and a similar philosophy I’ve had to be relatively successful:

“If you get two people doing the same job, one is doing 40 hours and one is doing 60. If you’re doing 50% more of whatever you do, you’d have to say you start getting better at it. Because you’re getting better at it, you’re getting more productive per hour, aren’t you?

“So if you can become more productive and do more – it’s not like you’re just doing 50% more, you’re doing 100% more. Next minute you’re doing 200%, 300% more.”

“If you do more hours you’re going to make more money. And then if you work smart within those hours and do more hours, you make an absolute fortune. It’s just the way it is.”


And it’s not just about the money and productivity, you get experience at a phenomenal rate which sets you up for big success. Enjoy your holidays everyone, I’ve got work to do

How many extra hours is ai doing to get good at something? And that's earning billions of the backs of everyone for a select few and stealing jobs.

As Inruin mentioned, it's a far more complex world.

We've had the same system for 50 years, as I mentioned the whole time I've been here. Neoliberalism. It's extracting wealth upwards, and all of us bear the financial and social costs.

The select right wingers can bang on about pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and there is merit in that, but it's so far past those tired tropes now.

The billionaires are rogue, there's fascism openly manifesting and the right are going full blown authoritarian and fascist themselves. Even neoliberalism is too soft now for the oligarchs, the techbros.

They and what I see on the right is quite frankly falling within a normal definition of insanity, certainly sociopathic, probably psychopathic.

So yeah, Inruin, it is far more complex.

Those on the right banging on about immigration? Guess what - AI will take exponentially more jobs and no one will be able to do anything about it, while the billionaires get even richer.

So yes - how much is enough?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

How many extra hours is ai doing to get good at something? And that's earning billions of the backs of everyone for a select few and stealing jobs.

As Inruin mentioned, it's a far more complex world.

We've had the same system for 50 years, as I mentioned the whole time I've been here. Neoliberalism. It's extracting wealth upwards, and all of us bear the financial and social costs.

The select right wingers can bang on about pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and there is merit in that, but it's so far past those tired tropes now.

The billionaires are rogue, there's fascism openly manifesting and the right are going full blown authoritarian and fascist themselves. Even neoliberalism is too soft now for the oligarchs, the techbros.

They and what I see on the right is quite frankly falling within a normal definition of insanity, certainly sociopathic, probably psychopathic.

So yeah, Inruin, it is far more complex.

Those on the right banging on about immigration? Guess what - AI will take exponentially more jobs and no one will be able to do anything about it, while the billionaires get even richer.

So yes - how much is enough?

I dont subscribe to the AI killing all jobs.

Railroads, industrial age, internet, factories, globalisation, etc all changed the workforce and we just adapted and found new and varied jobs. The unemployment rate never gets affected despite the massive changes. Humans thrive as a species because we adapt. It’s our superpower.

Did we dwell on the demise of video stores? Just look at jobs in people-to-people industries that will always be around.… I’ve got a job in tourism if you need it

 

[Inruin]

How many extra hours is ai doing to get good at something? And that's earning billions of the backs of everyone for a select few and stealing jobs.

As Inruin mentioned, it's a far more complex world.

We've had the same system for 50 years, as I mentioned the whole time I've been here. Neoliberalism. It's extracting wealth upwards, and all of us bear the financial and social costs.

The select right wingers can bang on about pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and there is merit in that, but it's so far past those tired tropes now.

The billionaires are rogue, there's fascism openly manifesting and the right are going full blown authoritarian and fascist themselves. Even neoliberalism is too soft now for the oligarchs, the techbros.

They and what I see on the right is quite frankly falling within a normal definition of insanity, certainly sociopathic, probably psychopathic.

So yeah, Inruin, it is far more complex.

Those on the right banging on about immigration? Guess what - AI will take exponentially more jobs and no one will be able to do anything about it, while the billionaires get even richer.

So yes - how much is enough?

So anti technology now too lol

How much is enough? You seem to have done a fair bit of travelling this past year enjoying yourself. How dare you while others are worse off than you. And all in this neoliberal setting. Or is it the typical left trope, attack anything that doesn't actually require anything from yourself to change. It's big corporate or billionaires or oligarchs or..... Easy to sell that to the left followers with a snappy 'we are the 99' or whatever.

I'll tell you something for free (something the left love is free) targeting the top 1% or whatever it is, is going to have minimal effect and certainly not anything like what you seem to desire.

 

[Inruin]

Did we dwell on the demise of video stores? Just look at jobs in people-to-people industries that will always be around.… I’ve got a job in tourism if you need it

Careful mate, they'll be coming for you soon. Obviously you are one of the evil ones taking advantage....

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

So anti technology now too lol

How much is enough? You seem to have done a fair bit of travelling this past year enjoying yourself. How dare you while others are worse off than you. And all in this neoliberal setting. Or is it the typical left trope, attack anything that doesn't actually require anything from yourself to change. It's big corporate or billionaires or oligarchs or..... Easy to sell that to the left followers with a snappy 'we are the 99' or whatever.

I'll tell you something for free (something the left love is free) targeting the top 1% or whatever it is, is going to have minimal effect and certainly not anything like what you seem to desire.

It’s not targeting the 1% for change. They know it’s pointless.

It’s about creating division and a common enemy to get enough people upset that they vote a certain was.

Example - get everyone upset by cherry picking 300 mega people to bring in a capital gains tax for 15% of the people like it’s somehow linked.

All part of the lefts divisive personality and propaganda wars.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

So anti technology now too lol

How much is enough? You seem to have done a fair bit of travelling this past year enjoying yourself. How dare you while others are worse off than you. And all in this neoliberal setting. Or is it the typical left trope, attack anything that doesn't actually require anything from yourself to change. It's big corporate or billionaires or oligarchs or..... Easy to sell that to the left followers with a snappy 'we are the 99' or whatever.

I'll tell you something for free (something the left love is free) targeting the top 1% or whatever it is, is going to have minimal effect and certainly not anything like what you seem to desire.

And just bought a house. More bourgeois than proletariat, that’s for sure.

 

[Rick O’Shay]

So yes - how much is enough?

In the words of Saint Carroll Shelby "Too much is just right"

 

[Inruin]

In the words of Saint Carroll Shelby "Too much is just right"

The last thing I would want or trust is the Government to decide

 

[miket12]

I posited this question here a while ago, worth asking again in the context you've raised above Mike - for those on the right on here, how much is enough wealth for someone? 2 million? 10? 12? 20 even?

Would you (whoever considers this) be happy with 20 million?

How much can we honestly say we need in the rest of our lifetimes to be comfortable?

When it comes to retirement, economists look at what’s needed for a “no thrills” or “choices” retirement and whether you live in a metropolitan (greater Auckland, greater Wellington or greater Christchurch areas) or provincial (everywhere else).

On the most expensive option (metro choices) has been accessed by a number of different groups/economists. They’ve worked out the figures for a couple who live for 30 years (until 95) after receiving the NZ Super who own a mortgage free property would need to have in savings about NZ Super.

Opes Partners says that couple would need $1.45 mil. in savings….
add $1 mil. for an average freehold property, and that couple, enjoying some entertainment, meals out and the occasional holiday, and their $450,000 net worth over $2 mil. would be subject to a wealth tax.

Massey University Centre for Financial Education, or FinEd, have said that a couples income needs reduce as they get older and they’ve worked out that the same couple would need $1.15 mil saving in addition to the mortgage free property.

The even more conservative NZ Society of Actuaries say that the same couple would need $605,000 in savings if they paid a mortgage free property. They used a larger percentage of annual decrease in their calcs than FinEd.

The scary thing is that a couple with a mortgage or renting would actually need more in savings than these figures above to pay the rent or mortgage.

Now consider this, put $25 k into a managed fund when a child is born, and because of compounding interest, they would have over a million dollars in a managed fund when they retired. Building wealth can be based on on “time in a market” than where investments are made.

 

[MaybeTop8]

When it comes to retirement, economists look at what’s needed for a “no thrills” or “choices” retirement and whether you live in a metropolitan (greater Auckland, greater Wellington or greater Christchurch areas) or provincial (everywhere else).

On the most expensive option (metro choices) has been accessed by a number of different groups/economists. They’ve worked out the figures for a couple who live for 30 years (until 95) after receiving the NZ Super who own a mortgage free property would need to have in savings about NZ Super.

Opes Partners says that couple would need $1.45 mil. in savings….
add $1 mil. for an average freehold property, and that couple, enjoying some entertainment, meals out and the occasional holiday, and their $450,000 net worth over $2 mil. would be subject to a wealth tax.

Massey University Centre for Financial Education, or FinEd, have said that a couples income needs reduce as they get older and they’ve worked out that the same couple would need $1.15 mil saving in addition to the mortgage free property.

The even more conservative NZ Society of Actuaries say that the same couple would need $605,000 in savings if they paid a mortgage free property. They used a larger percentage of annual decrease in their calcs than FinEd.

The scary thing is that a couple with a mortgage or renting would actually need more in savings than these figures above to pay the rent or mortgage.

Now consider this, put $25 k into a managed fund when a child is born, and because of compounding interest, they would have over a million dollars in a managed fund when they retired. Building wealth can be based on on “time in a market” than where investments are made.

Thanks Mike.

I think the 2 million figure is way too low tbh, and would also like to see immediate taxation of the big tech companies who pay fuck all on mega profits.

A capital gains tax holds much more potential imo, but again, shallow thinking on my part. I really haven't looked into the wealth tax tbh, beyond the obvious wealth accumulation disparities happening here and around the world.

I'm sure all the billionaire defenders on here can fill in the gaps for me whilst defending the uber rich. The billionaires should be grateful that they have the support of the faithful hard righters on here

 

[MaybeTop8]

Really inspirational article about Paul Kelly and a similar philosophy I’ve had to be relatively successful:

“If you get two people doing the same job, one is doing 40 hours and one is doing 60. If you’re doing 50% more of whatever you do, you’d have to say you start getting better at it. Because you’re getting better at it, you’re getting more productive per hour, aren’t you?

“So if you can become more productive and do more – it’s not like you’re just doing 50% more, you’re doing 100% more. Next minute you’re doing 200%, 300% more.”

“If you do more hours you’re going to make more money. And then if you work smart within those hours and do more hours, you make an absolute fortune. It’s just the way it is.”


And it’s not just about the money and productivity, you get experience at a phenomenal rate which sets you up for big success. Enjoy your holidays everyone, I’ve got work to do

I prefer the real Paul Kelly, songwriter

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

I prefer the real Paul Kelly, songwriter

Some of us appreciate hard workers and massive tax payers!

Some of us prefer insignificant artists.

Such is the ways of the world.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Some of us appreciate hard workers and massive tax payers!

Some of us prefer insignificant artists.

Such is the ways of the world.

Such is the way of the small minded right


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6FF3-SWwsE

 

[miket12]

Thanks Mike.

I think the 2 million figure is way too low tbh, and would also like to see immediate taxation of the big tech companies who pay fuck all on mega profits.

A capital gains tax holds much more potential imo, but again, shallow thinking on my part. I really haven't looked into the wealth tax tbh, beyond the obvious wealth accumulation disparities happening here and around the world.

I'm sure all the billionaire defenders on here can fill in the gaps for me whilst defending the uber rich. The billionaires should be grateful that they have the support of the faithful hard righters on here

NZ Herald personal finance columnist, Mary Holm, has a really simple calculation she uses for working out how much money a person would have each week to retire on (plus nz super).

The amount of savings divided by $1,000 gives the amount of savings a person/couple can spend each week until they're 85 years old.... interest returned on the balance and rises in NZ Super would take into account inflation. Using this formula, when they're 85, they would have no retirement saving left. If they were still living in a family home, that would then be sold and the funds used to move to a retirement village/home.

So, using her calculator, a couple with $1,000,000 in savings would be able to spend $1,000 PW in addition to their NZ Super.

But the returns on their $1,000,000 savings can make a big difference. If it made a 5.00% return each year, the savings wouldn't run out so quickly. If inflation averaged 3% PA but they were getting an 8% return (after tax and fees) on the investments, not only would their balance never reduce but the extra 3% and increases in NZ Super would mean their savings would also be insulated against the effects of inflation as inflation would decrease the value of their money.

TBH, people have quite different views on who is rich.... but, universally, the majority of us will always consider the "rich" will have more wealth than we do.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

TBH, people have quite different views on who is rich.... but, universally, the majority of us will always consider the "rich" will have more wealth than we do.

Rich is all relative.

If you have $10k net worth in Nz, you’re in the top half of the wealthy worldwide.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Nothing less than a full denouncement and condemnation of American aggression from our government is acceptable.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Nothing less than a full denouncement and condemnation of American aggression from our government is acceptable.

I denounce the attack.

I just prey Labour doesn’t win the next election or we could become a target!

 

[MaybeTop8]

I denounce the attack.

I just prey Labour doesn’t win the next election or we could become a target!

Good on ya Wiz