Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[wizard of Tauranga]

Reality is though Rick, all the complaints in here about people not pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, why do people not take responsibility for themselves etc, all the complaints about rising crime and beneficiaries (in a manufactured recession) - all the causes come from the same sources and policies (with a foundational neoliberal basis) that are constructing a two tier society and increasing the wealth gap at a great rate of knots.

What about

1 - cities limit the ability of people to get ahead - I know lots of young people killing it in rural Waikato and BOP. Cities make the underlying land value due to supply and demand, makes house prices excessively and prohibitively unaffordable.

2 - the break down of the nuclear family has handicapped a generation of kids (stats support this).

‘Neoliberalism’ coincides with these factors as well.

Just brainstorming here for conversation…

 

[Worried2Death]

First world countries have high wealth inequality but first world living standards

Third world countries have no rich people and everyone’s poor.

Evidence the trickle down works. A strong economy with big businesses benefits all, a screwed up country the rich don’t want to have anything to do with, guts the economy.

I don’t know why people want the poor option that will result in us all poorer

Inequality and wealth gaps are getting progressively worse though by most measures over 30 years, when does the trickle down start from the top 0.01%? It keeps trickling up.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Inequality and wealth gaps are getting progressively worse though by most measures over 30 years, when does the trickle down start from the top 0.01%? It keeps trickling up.

It doesn’t trickle down out of the riches hand. It trickles down through job opportunity, taxes on businesses and turnover, export income, opportunity to start businesses, etc.

 

[Worried2Death]

It doesn’t trickle down out of the riches hand. It trickles down through job opportunity, taxes on businesses and turnover, export income, opportunity to start businesses, etc.

Maybe, can you outline how Zuck and Elon provide direct benefit to the NZ economy when they extract wealth with minimal taxation

 

[MaybeTop8]

It doesn’t trickle down out of the riches hand. It trickles down through job opportunity, taxes on businesses and turnover, export income, opportunity to start businesses, etc.

Your first sentence at least shows some truth.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Maybe, can you outline how Zuck and Elon provide direct benefit to the NZ economy when they extract wealth with minimal taxation

How does a CGT that hits 15% of middle class households with investment property affect Zuck and Elon?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Your first sentence at least shows some truth.

Would you want a unicorn NZ business that grows and employs 10,0000 NZer on high paying roles if the founder became a billionaire?

I guarantee if we’re anti business, anti wealth, anti private business they don’t start up here. In fact the evidence is despite a highly educated workforce, the amount that settle for the three B’s instead of going huge has cost us all dearly.

 

[Worried2Death]

How does a CGT that hits 15% of middle class households with investment property affect Zuck and Elon?

It doesn't, so we're not addressing the trickle up issue at all.

 

[John Nick]

Or the WOF doesn’t pick up on everything?

It should be on the driver with heavy fines for keeping your vehicle safe and road worthy.

More to the point the transport operator .
Heavier fines

 

[Worried2Death]

Would you want a unicorn NZ business that grows and employs 10,0000 NZer on high paying roles if the founder became a billionaire?

Bring it on, who would have a problem with that?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

It doesn't, so we're not addressing the trickle up issue at all.

Soo… the economist article that suggests a CGT to address wealth inequality just wants a wealth grab then.

Got it.

I’m personally all for tackling international companies that shift revenue and don’t give back to the countries they draw revenue from.

Totally different to taxing mum and dad investors trying to save for their retirement.

 

[Worried2Death]

Soo… the economist article that suggests a CGT to address wealth inequality just wants a wealth grab then.

Got it.

I’m personally all for tackling international companies that shift revenue and don’t give back to the countries they draw revenue from.

Totally different to taxing mum and dad investors trying to save for their retirement.

I see it as peasants fighting over crumbs while the robber barons run off with the capital to their secret island tax haven lairs. Kinda like when the Rolling Stones moved to France.

 

[MaybeTop8]

View: https://bsky.app/profile/publicaddress.bsky.social/post/3m5x5sxdhns27

 

[Rick O’Shay]

Reality is though Rick, all the complaints in here about people not pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, why do people not take responsibility for themselves etc, all the complaints about rising crime and beneficiaries (in a manufactured recession) - all the causes come from the same sources and policies (with a foundational neoliberal basis) that are constructing a two tier society and increasing the wealth gap at a great rate of knots.

I guess my point is the majority of what you describe is driven by economists, who probably moonlight as tarot readers.

Doesn't matter which side of the fence you sit on, greed and power will always win out. History has an unfortunate way of proving that correct.

 

[Rick O’Shay]

I see it as peasants fighting over crumbs while the robber barons run off with the capital to their secret island tax haven lairs. Kinda like when the Rolling Stones moved to France.

I moved to France as well but pay more there in tax and duties than anywhere else that we have property. Ok if you are a National but otherwise not for the fainthearted.

 

[miket12]

Reality is though Rick, all the complaints in here about people not pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, why do people not take responsibility for themselves etc, all the complaints about rising crime and beneficiaries (in a manufactured recession) - all the causes come from the same sources and policies (with a foundational neoliberal basis) that are constructing a two tier society and increasing the wealth gap at a great rate of knots.

How is Labour's narrow Capital Gains Tax going to narrow the gap?

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Inequality and wealth gaps are getting progressively worse though by most measures over 30 years, when does the trickle down start from the top 0.01%? It keeps trickling up.

Thats an illogical argument. Trickle down never purported to address the gap, merely increase the absolute wealth of the bottom quintile, which it has clearly done.

 

[Lord Gnome of Mooloolaba]

Does being a right winger require a frontal lobotomy to remove the ability of macro thinking.....

 

[miket12]

Interesting that we're told a CGT will narrow the wealth gap in NZ and we are one of the OECD countries not to have one. Given that, you would think the wealth gap in NZ would be much worse than most, if not all, the other OECD countries. Especially a country like GB which not only has a CGT to close the wealth gap but also other taxes which we don't have here such as estate duty, inheritance taxes and national insurance contributions.... yet, despite all these wealth gap closing measures, Great Britian's wealth gap (using GINI)is larger than ours according to this OECD graph from data from 2021....

https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/society-at-a-glance-2024_918d8db3-en/full-report/income-and-wealth-inequalities_7ac4178f.html

And is a wealth tax the answer? This chart would suggest not when you consider that the wealth gap in two of the three European Countries to have one (Spain and Switzerland) take the two spots just before NZ.

https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/society-at-a-glance-2024_918d8db3-en/full-report/income-and-wealth-inequalities_7ac4178f.html

 

[Worried2Death]

Thats an illogical argument. Trickle down never purported to address the gap, merely increase the absolute wealth of the bottom quintile, which it has clearly done.

View attachment 14985

It's illogical if you're arguing that it did purport to address the gap, I agree it didn't, some still think it will though.