Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[Damo]

An interesting stat 65 years since a PM has lost an election and stayed on in opposition to get voted back in.

As we have seen a lot of politicians not just Prime Ministers once they get voted out move on. The opposition parties also tend to change leaders a lot and a lot of former leaders move on instead of working their way back up.

We had a period with John Key and Jacinda Ardern where it seemed the leader was more popular than their party. At the moment both leaders aren't setting the world on fire with the polls. Is it flipped to people favouring the political party more than the leader?

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

I don't think Chris Hipkins will be Labour leader in the lead up to the next election. If Labour is smart, that is

 

[dean]

I don't think Chris Hipkins will be Labour leader in the lead up to the next election. If Labour is smart, that is

Who would be the leading candidate(s) to replace him?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Seymour going to make a speech today about ideas for privatisation.
This should be the basis financial debate and investigation but it won't.
I admire Seymour for raising issues we need to address if we are to maintain anything like our living standards for the next 50 years.

The rising cost of services like health, which has jumped from costing about $20 billion in the 2020/21 year to nearly $30b (about $6000 per citizen) in the current year despite long wait times and lower services.

It’s expected Seymour will question whether Kiwis should have the option to give up their right to the public healthcare system and take their $6000 for their own private insurance.

That $30k for my 5 person family would get us a lot of private health insurance ($10k for full cover for my family? with $20k left over?). Makes you question WTF the health system has been doing, even if you believe in public healthcare.

 

[tyrael]

Who would be the leading candidate(s) to replace him?

Kieran McAualty (spelling might be off)

 

[tyrael]

option to give up their right to the public healthcare system and take their $6000 for their own private insurance

Would this start the process like American health system. At first it's fine but then the insurance gets more expensive and your 6k isn't enough then, government slash funding, you get less than 6k and insurance goes up even more.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Would this start the process like American health system. At first it's fine but then the insurance gets more expensive and your 6k isn't enough then, government slash funding, you get less than 6k and insurance goes up even more.

To be clear I support public health and education. Also the health system deals with chronic health issues that private wouldn’t cover, etc.

But it highlights the wastage (3x the cost) especially when the health performance is absolutely diabolical at the moment.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Our old mate, @MaybeTop8 will be in soon crying out privatisation!

Firstly Luxon has ruled it out in this term. He will claim they are being deliberately underfunded and being run down. However budgets have been increasing massively (health $20b to $30b in 4 years) but departments aren’t performing.

Our public services need to sort their shit out so there is nobody questioning their value.

 

[tyrael]

However budgets have been increasing massively (health $20b to $30b in 4 years)

I'm just asking, I actually don't know much about this subject, but wouldn't a lot of that cost be associated with building new hospitals and with inflation all of that goes up just like rail.

There are graduates that can't get a job because hospitals don't have enough funding to hire them. I was at the ER and it took about 4 hrs to get a bed. When I got up there, there were like at least 4 empty beds. I assume that there weren't enough nurses to be able to cover all the beds adequately.

 

[dean]

I'm just asking, I actually don't know much about this subject, but wouldn't a lot of that cost be associated with building new hospitals and with inflation all of that goes up just like rail.

There are graduates that can't get a job because hospitals don't have enough funding to hire them. I was at the ER and it took about 4 hrs to get a bed. When I got up there, there were like at least 4 empty beds. I assume that there weren't enough nurses to be able to cover all the beds adequately.

Many of our hospital buildings are at or near the end of their life. Lots of money spent on catch up maintenance when we need new hospitals.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Would this start the process like American health system. At first it's fine but then the insurance gets more expensive and your 6k isn't enough then, government slash funding, you get less than 6k and insurance goes up even more.

Would probably be closer to us here in Aus where you get the best of both worlds

 

[tyrael]

Would probably be closer to us here in Aus where you get the best of both worlds

They govt gives you money for private health insurance on top of medicare?

 

[MrFrankWhite]

They govt gives you money for private health insurance on top of medicare?

Medicare levy gets taken out of your paycheck. If you have private health insurance, you get a rebate.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Seymour going to make a speech today about ideas for privatisation.
This should be the basis financial debate and investigation but it won't.
I admire Seymour for raising issues we need to address if we are to maintain anything like our living standards for the next 50 years.

Privatization is the problem not any kind of solution. It's enriching the wealthy at the expense of everyone else

 

[defensivebomb]

NZs public and private healthcare systems are quite intertwined

I’d really only be interested in reading a cost / benefit or financial analysis on splitting them out if it was done by a really competent, apolitical source that has a deep understanding of the health system (which would be a pipe dream) and no conflicts of interest

I had a lengthy discussion with a couple of surgeons and GPs a few years ago. Like, over a few days. Public heathcare is stretched. Usually the same specialist works in both public and private. Sometimes you’ll get dealt with faster in public, depending on how booked out the specialist is in private

Medically professionals acknowledge public is broken, and they are much better working in private. But the entire system relies upon them answering to a greater calling of helping out in public, working harder for less money. So they often end up doing both. A huge amount of goodwill is called upon and honoured

Now how on earth you clearly split that out wouldn’t be particularly easy.

My view is that we continue with the current public heath setup, but actually resource it right $$$$

 

[miket12]

Privatization is the problem not any kind of solution. It's enriching the wealthy at the expense of everyone else

Where privatization worked really well was when we had private Building Consultants who were able to process building consents, undertake inspections and instruct Council's to issue CCC's. As someone who deals regularly with Council's obtaining building consents for over thirty years, when firms like PBC and Compass Building Certifiers were about, council's no longer had a "captive" audience and not only improved their customer service but also kept their fees down.

If there was an issue with some consent documents (say I'd noted a bracing element wrong), a Council officer would identify it, give instructions for a clerk to write a letter, sign it, give it to a supervisor to read, write on it required changes for the clerk to do and then finally post or email it out.... which could be days after the mistake or wrong information was discovered. The application was then put on the bottom of the pile and the 28 days for processing a consent start again when the information was received back at Council.

If the same consent was going through Compass or PBC and I'd written the wrong brace on a plan, I'd get an email directly from the inspector, change the plan or calcs, email them back the revisions (including an amended Memorandum Cert.) and they'd keep processing it without dropping it down the queue.

Even the way they handled inspections was different. Say an inspector from Compass came onsite and the builder hadn't finished all the nailing for bracing elements. The inspector would go to the next site and come back later in the day to finish the inspection and sign it off.... no need to rebook an inspection or pay the extra cost for the inspection. Council, on the other hand, would fail the inspection, require a new inspection to be booked (which usually takes 48 hours notice) and add the costs for the new inspection on to their CCC bill. If the inspection was for something time critical, the delays so added up to far more cost when the project couldn't proceed any further until the reinspection was carried out.

Once the last of the private ones went out of business, Council's started to markedly increase their fees and their CS has become crap again. Auckland Council used to have eight customer service centres... now there are none.

 

[dean]

NZs public and private healthcare systems are quite intertwined

I’d really only be interested in reading a cost / benefit or financial analysis on splitting them out if it was done by a really competent, apolitical source that has a deep understanding of the health system (which would be a pipe dream) and no conflicts of interest

The only way to do it. Proper cost benefit analysis.

My view is that we continue with the current public heath setup, but actually resource it right $$$$

That is the issue, we don't have the $$$$$, so the current system will go backwards.

 

[miket12]

NZs public and private healthcare systems are quite intertwined

I’d really only be interested in reading a cost / benefit or financial analysis on splitting them out if it was done by a really competent, apolitical source that has a deep understanding of the health system (which would be a pipe dream) and no conflicts of interest

I had a lengthy discussion with a couple of surgeons and GPs a few years ago. Like, over a few days. Public heathcare is stretched. Usually the same specialist works in both public and private. Sometimes you’ll get dealt with faster in public, depending on how booked out the specialist is in private

Medically professionals acknowledge public is broken, and they are much better working in private. But the entire system relies upon them answering to a greater calling of helping out in public, working harder for less money. So they often end up doing both. A huge amount of goodwill is called upon and honoured

Now how on earth you clearly split that out wouldn’t be particularly easy.

My view is that we continue with the current public heath setup, but actually resource it right $$$$

When my wife got sick, we had the operation and most of the chemo (until that year's funding allowance run out) done privately because of her work's Southern Cross Medical Insurance. Her oncologist worked for both the ADHB and for Canopy Cancer Care. While Canopy were still administering the chemo, all the meetings were held there but once the insurance money had run out, the last 6 - 8 weeks of Herceptin were done at Auckland Hospital and all the meetings with the oncologist were held there. She was also able to have a Portacath installed... it drove her mad for the first few weeks and she wanted to rip it out. Then she got used to it.

At that time, the public system wouldn't have put in a portacath for her type of cancer/treatment but was she pleased she had one when she was in the Oncology Unit at Auckland Hospital. There were women in the same treatment ward as her crying in pain as the poor nursing staff were trying in vain to find another spot to put the intravenous needle in.

SX also paid for her to have a radioactive dye put into her so it was easier for the surgeon to see which of her lymphnodes were attached to the cancerous area so they only removed a few and not most of them as what happens in the public system.

It was also interesting that her treatment was quite new at the time (using a chemo that was easier on the body) and was cheaper than the drugs used at that time in the NZ public system to treat her form of cancer. SX were more than happy to use the other drug as it cost them less money than the publicly funded drugs.

 

[dean]

NZ has become frightened of privatisation and other things like mining while still wanting to maintain our living standards primarily by taxing the rich. Todays rich are those that own their own home.
Thinking about it, I reckon we should privatise all health care asap.
My wife pays private health insurance covering operations only. She is aged in her early 60's and the annual premium is under $3k.
Private health care providers are already doing it for less than our current spend of $6k per person.
But expect a different service. Decent facilities, good food and no shit kickers intimidating staff or living with patients.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

NZ has become frightened of privatisation and other things like mining while still wanting to maintain our living standards primarily by taxing the rich. Todays rich are those that own their own home.
Thinking about it, I reckon we should privatise all health care asap.
My wife pays private health insurance covering operations only. She is aged in her early 60's and the annual premium is under $3k.
Private health care providers are already doing it for less than our current spend of $6k per person.
But expect a different service. Decent facilities, good food and no shit kickers intimidating staff or living with patients.

NZ wont accept it. Majority believe the bottom quintile deserve the same QoL as the top.

 

[dean]

NZ wont accept it. Majority believe the bottom quintile deserve the same QoL as the top.

We are all heading toward the bottom here as we get dragged down. Fools paradise.