Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[Inruin]

Internal police emails reveal alarm over bill that reduces oversight of clubs and ranges​

Laura Frykberg
December 02, 2024 •05:00am
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fast facts

• Internal police emails reveal “children” have used military-style semi-automatic firearms at gun clubs.
• The emails also discuss a “significant number” of firearms’ owners who left pistol clubs in 2023 while still possessing guns.
• The concerns relate to a new bill that reduces police oversight of gun clubs and ranges.

A tranche of emails released to Stuff reveal the extent of concern police have with a new bill that reduces oversight of shooting clubs and ranges.
The internal communications, released under the Official Information Act, include descriptions of children using military-style semi-automatic (MSSA) firearms at gun clubs.
The emails from the police regulator, the Firearms Safety Authority, said children used MSSAs at shooting clubs on “three separate occasions,” which was “illegal”.

However, it is unclear whether the incidents took place before or after 2019, when MSSAs were banned following the Christchurch terror attacks.
Labour police spokesperson Ginny Andersen described the information as alarming for public safety.



“It’s really concerning... that young people are able to use deadly weapons,” Andersen told Stuff.

Labour police spokesperson, Ginny Andersen, said it was “really concerning” children had used “deadly weapons”.ROBERT KITCHIN / THE POST

‘Poor reporting and accountability’
The communications also highlight a “significant number” of firearms’ owners who broke the conditions of their license by leaving pistol clubs in 2023 while still possessing guns.
The missing firearms’ owners were endorsed target pistol holders, licensed gun owners able to possess multiple pistols for target shooting, as well other firearms like rifles.
Some also failed to attend pistol clubs 12 times last year, the minimum number of visits needed annually to be eligible for the endorsement.
In one email, the FSA said it highlighted “poor reporting and accountability” at clubs, inspiring little “confidence” they would monitor breaches if they occurred.
Figures from July 2023 to June 2024 show of the 3878 firearms licence holders in New Zealand, 441 did not meet the conditions of their endorsement.

“The failure to meet legal obligations is concerning,” FSA executive director Angela Brazier said.
“The Firearms Safety Authority - Te Tari Pūreke relies on certified pistol clubs to alert it to breaches.”

Associate Justice Minister, Nicole McKee, said there was a robust select committee stage for the Arms (Shooting Clubs, Shooting Ranges, and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, with 600 written submissions received.ROBERT KITCHIN / THE POST

Risking ‘trust and confidence’
Other concerns over the Arms (Shooting Clubs, Shooting Ranges, and Other Matters) Amendment Bill are raised in the emails.
One describes the hurried timeframe for implementing the bill as risking “trust and confidence” in the FSA by the licensed firearms community.
The regulator has been given three months to implement the bill after it passes.
Andersen said the “short period” was designed to “undermine the regulator every step of the way in this process”.


Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee, who is behind the bill, would not comment on the internal police correspondence.
However, she said a robust select committee process took place as “promised”.
“More than 600 written submissions were received and are now available online, including one from the NZ Police Association,” she said.
“The Justice Select Committee is working through these submissions, and I welcome their report which is due on 5 February.”
‘Pre-1983 thinking about what is safe’
The bill, which amends the 1983 Arms Act, means pistol clubs and ranges will still come under the oversight of the FSA.
However, non pistol clubs and ranges, where weapons like shotguns are fired, will be monitored by a governing body or parent organisation.
Clubs and ranges argue the administrative burden of coming under FSA oversight is taxing, forcing them in some cases to close.


But the FSA previously said it would mean in most cases it would no longer be able to inspect the ballistic safety of a shooting range with higher powered weapons.
The email exchanges again highlight that risk, with the bill described as “pre-1983 thinking about what’s safe”.
One email said the bill fails to understand “what’s being shot, how it’s being shot and the dynamics of greater calibres.”
“It’s a bit like the Interislander ferry (the regulated) telling the regulator (Maritime / WorkSafe), that they have enough life jackets, they haven’t expired,” the email reads.
“So don’t bother coming to check and by the way you can’t lawfully anyway!”

Police Association president, Chris Cahill, has questioned the need for the bill.ROBERT KITCHIN / ROBERT KITCHIN

Gangs on ranges
During the select committee hearings in November, Police Association president Chris Cahill questioned why the bill was necessary.



“Why are you even debating this legislation when there is nothing that shows it’s required,” he said.
“There is no evidence that I read in any of the documents prepared... that showed there is a problem with these regulations in relation to gun clubs and shooting ranges.”
During the hearings, Cahill also said he was “aware” of patched gang members using gun ranges since the 2019 mosque attacks.
Among the police emails released under the Official Information Act is one that backs up that claim.
“I’ve included images of those gang members shooting. 50 cal in the South Island, one being overseen by a senior NZ pistol shooter,” the email reads.
Andersen said it all built a “picture” that there were some “highly questionable activities on gun ranges”.
“Yet this government has still taken steps to deregulate gun ranges that are not within the interests of New Zealanders, or public safety,” she said.
- Stuff

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

 

[Noitall]

Well, Luxon not revealing what happened in a negotiation is the right thing from my perspective. I think it reveals a lot more about Seymour and that should really be the media focus but its Luxon they want as far as I can see. Definitely appears that Seymour is causing a number of issues.

Luxon has largely been a non event on the issue. He’s added often that he doesn’t support the bill on numerous occasions but as the leader of the coalition he’s largely let both coalition leaders overshadow him. He’s been viewed by many as the missing pm. Seymour still has half a term as deputy pm, I can see this coalition disintegrating

 

[Inruin]

Luxon has largely been a non event on the issue. He’s added often that he doesn’t support the bill on numerous occasions but as the leader of the coalition he’s largely let both coalition leaders overshadow him. He’s been viewed by many as the missing pm. Seymour still has half a term as deputy pm, I can see this coalition disintegrating

yes, its a possibility. if it implodes or disintegrates it would be largely because of Seymour. The one thing they all have to remember is its only two years until the next election and they all need each other or they are a one term government.

Many may think he is missing but many more I would suggest are happy so far. Seeing inflation dropping, interest rates dropping, focuses on education implemented, focus on gangs and crime, trade deals being signed, Pharmac funding for cancer drugs etc etc. Being all over the detail may be an issued for him but he does appear pretty good at getting action from his ministers.

From my perception it appears that there is more focus and more being done than what we had seen in any of the last 6 years. And i think that is what many others are seeing as well.

 

[Noitall]

yes, its a possibility. if it implodes or disintegrates it would be largely because of Seymour. The one thing they all have to remember is its only two years until the next election and they all need each other or they are a one term government.

Many may think he is missing but many more I would suggest are happy so far. Seeing inflation dropping, interest rates dropping, focuses on education implemented, focus on gangs and crime, trade deals being signed, Pharmac funding for cancer drugs etc etc. Being all over the detail may be an issued for him but he does appear pretty good at getting action from his ministers.

From my perception it appears that there is more focus and more being done than what we had seen in any of the last 6 years. And i think that is what many others are seeing as well.

Google Search

Not sure if you saw it yesterday but the whole interview is worthy of a watch. We are performing very poorly. Out of 190 countries, our growth sits at number 179

 

[Inruin]

Google Search

Not sure if you saw it yesterday but the whole interview is worthy of a watch. We are performing very poorly. Out of 190 countries, our growth sits at number 179

It takes time to turn the ship around. When you consider where we have come from, there was no plan for growth

 

[Noitall]

It takes time to turn the ship around. When you consider where we have come from, there was no plan for growth

Interesting to look at Ireland as a country with a similar population. Last year went into recession not expecting to see any growth. At present they sit 3rd as one of the richest countries in the world. Their inflation was at 6.30% last year and last month it was at 0.10% after being at 0.00% the month before. They put it down to consumer spending higher than they expected

 

[Inruin]

Interesting to look at Ireland as a country with a similar population. Last year went into recession not expecting to see any growth. At present they sit 3rd as one of the richest countries in the world. Their inflation was at 6.30% last year and last month it was at 0.10% after being at 0.00% the month before. They put it down to consumer spending higher than they expected

Do you think we perhaps we could or should follow some of Irelands policies?

 

[Noitall]

Do you think we perhaps we could or should follow some of Irelands policies?

To be honest, I don’t know much about Ireland’s policies. But it’s an impressive turnaround from where they were


Rank Country Continent GDP-PPP per capita (in USD)
1 Luxembourg Europe 143,740 thousand
2 Macao SAR Asia 134,140 thousand
3 Ireland Europe 133,900 thousand
4 Singapore Asia 133,740 thousand
5 Qatar Middle East 112,280 thousand
6 United Arab Emirates Asia 96,850 thousand
7 Switzerland Europe 91,930 thousand
8 San Marino Europe 86,990 thousand
9 United States North America 85,370 thousand
10 Norway Europe 82,830 thousand

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Internal police emails reveal alarm over bill that reduces oversight of clubs and ranges​

Laura Frykberg
December 02, 2024 •05:00am
Share

fast facts

• Internal police emails reveal “children” have used military-style semi-automatic firearms at gun clubs.
• The emails also discuss a “significant number” of firearms’ owners who left pistol clubs in 2023 while still possessing guns.
• The concerns relate to a new bill that reduces police oversight of gun clubs and ranges.

A tranche of emails released to Stuff reveal the extent of concern police have with a new bill that reduces oversight of shooting clubs and ranges.
The internal communications, released under the Official Information Act, include descriptions of children using military-style semi-automatic (MSSA) firearms at gun clubs.
The emails from the police regulator, the Firearms Safety Authority, said children used MSSAs at shooting clubs on “three separate occasions,” which was “illegal”.

However, it is unclear whether the incidents took place before or after 2019, when MSSAs were banned following the Christchurch terror attacks.
Labour police spokesperson Ginny Andersen described the information as alarming for public safety.



“It’s really concerning... that young people are able to use deadly weapons,” Andersen told Stuff.

Labour police spokesperson, Ginny Andersen, said it was “really concerning” children had used “deadly weapons”.ROBERT KITCHIN / THE POST

‘Poor reporting and accountability’
The communications also highlight a “significant number” of firearms’ owners who broke the conditions of their license by leaving pistol clubs in 2023 while still possessing guns.
The missing firearms’ owners were endorsed target pistol holders, licensed gun owners able to possess multiple pistols for target shooting, as well other firearms like rifles.
Some also failed to attend pistol clubs 12 times last year, the minimum number of visits needed annually to be eligible for the endorsement.
In one email, the FSA said it highlighted “poor reporting and accountability” at clubs, inspiring little “confidence” they would monitor breaches if they occurred.
Figures from July 2023 to June 2024 show of the 3878 firearms licence holders in New Zealand, 441 did not meet the conditions of their endorsement.

“The failure to meet legal obligations is concerning,” FSA executive director Angela Brazier said.
“The Firearms Safety Authority - Te Tari Pūreke relies on certified pistol clubs to alert it to breaches.”

Associate Justice Minister, Nicole McKee, said there was a robust select committee stage for the Arms (Shooting Clubs, Shooting Ranges, and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, with 600 written submissions received.ROBERT KITCHIN / THE POST

Risking ‘trust and confidence’
Other concerns over the Arms (Shooting Clubs, Shooting Ranges, and Other Matters) Amendment Bill are raised in the emails.
One describes the hurried timeframe for implementing the bill as risking “trust and confidence” in the FSA by the licensed firearms community.
The regulator has been given three months to implement the bill after it passes.
Andersen said the “short period” was designed to “undermine the regulator every step of the way in this process”.


Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee, who is behind the bill, would not comment on the internal police correspondence.
However, she said a robust select committee process took place as “promised”.
“More than 600 written submissions were received and are now available online, including one from the NZ Police Association,” she said.
“The Justice Select Committee is working through these submissions, and I welcome their report which is due on 5 February.”
‘Pre-1983 thinking about what is safe’
The bill, which amends the 1983 Arms Act, means pistol clubs and ranges will still come under the oversight of the FSA.
However, non pistol clubs and ranges, where weapons like shotguns are fired, will be monitored by a governing body or parent organisation.
Clubs and ranges argue the administrative burden of coming under FSA oversight is taxing, forcing them in some cases to close.


But the FSA previously said it would mean in most cases it would no longer be able to inspect the ballistic safety of a shooting range with higher powered weapons.
The email exchanges again highlight that risk, with the bill described as “pre-1983 thinking about what’s safe”.
One email said the bill fails to understand “what’s being shot, how it’s being shot and the dynamics of greater calibres.”
“It’s a bit like the Interislander ferry (the regulated) telling the regulator (Maritime / WorkSafe), that they have enough life jackets, they haven’t expired,” the email reads.
“So don’t bother coming to check and by the way you can’t lawfully anyway!”

Police Association president, Chris Cahill, has questioned the need for the bill.ROBERT KITCHIN / ROBERT KITCHIN

Gangs on ranges
During the select committee hearings in November, Police Association president Chris Cahill questioned why the bill was necessary.



“Why are you even debating this legislation when there is nothing that shows it’s required,” he said.
“There is no evidence that I read in any of the documents prepared... that showed there is a problem with these regulations in relation to gun clubs and shooting ranges.”
During the hearings, Cahill also said he was “aware” of patched gang members using gun ranges since the 2019 mosque attacks.
Among the police emails released under the Official Information Act is one that backs up that claim.
“I’ve included images of those gang members shooting. 50 cal in the South Island, one being overseen by a senior NZ pistol shooter,” the email reads.
Andersen said it all built a “picture” that there were some “highly questionable activities on gun ranges”.
“Yet this government has still taken steps to deregulate gun ranges that are not within the interests of New Zealanders, or public safety,” she said.
- Stuff

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

• Internal police emails reveal “children” have used military-style semi-automatic firearms at gun clubs.

NZ police always with the pressing issues. No doubt trying to shit focus after their Chch shooting failures.

 

[Noitall]

• Internal police emails reveal “children” have used military-style semi-automatic firearms at gun clubs.

NZ police always with the pressing issues. No doubt trying to shit focus after their Chch shooting failures.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKhEJIV6Y-Y

Perhaps they follow colonel morad’s thinking?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Not sure if you saw it yesterday but the whole interview is worthy of a watch. We are performing very poorly. Out of 190 countries, our growth sits at number 179

And a Liam Dann article in the weekend about needing more capital invested…

Quote: ‘there is scope for policy to help lift productivity growth over time by focusing on key areas such as private investment and capital intensity; internationalisation; innovation and the diffusion of new technology; and regulation and the competitive environment.’

Meanwhile the left are deciding how to raid our limited capital with a CGT or wealth tax…

Liam Dann: RBNZ's grim warning as productivity woes come to a head

OPINION: New Zealand faces a future of slow and low GDP growth on its current path.

www.nzherald.co.nz

 

[Inruin]

To be honest, I don’t know much about Ireland’s policies. But it’s an impressive turnaround from where they were


Rank Country Continent GDP-PPP per capita (in USD)
1 Luxembourg Europe 143,740 thousand
2 Macao SAR Asia 134,140 thousand
3 Ireland Europe 133,900 thousand
4 Singapore Asia 133,740 thousand
5 Qatar Middle East 112,280 thousand
6 United Arab Emirates Asia 96,850 thousand
7 Switzerland Europe 91,930 thousand
8 San Marino Europe 86,990 thousand
9 United States North America 85,370 thousand
10 Norway Europe 82,830 thousand

That's always the key isn't it? What policies drive that growth, can we or should we replicate them, what are the consequences etc

 

[Noitall]

And a Liam Dann article in the weekend about needing more capital invested…

Quote: ‘there is scope for policy to help lift productivity growth over time by focusing on key areas such as private investment and capital intensity; internationalisation; innovation and the diffusion of new technology; and regulation and the competitive environment.’

Meanwhile the left are deciding how to raid our limited capital with a CGT or wealth tax…

Liam Dann: RBNZ's grim warning as productivity woes come to a head

OPINION: New Zealand faces a future of slow and low GDP growth on its current path.

www.nzherald.co.nz

Not able to read the whole article behind a paywall, but either way privatisation is no different than government with monetary gain outweighing positive outcomes

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Not able to read the whole article behind a paywall, but either way privatisation is no different than government with monetary gain outweighing positive outcomes

The article talks about our low productivity for a long time and we’re seeing evidence of it everywhere now.

It even says: ‘the RBNZ is suggesting that this economy doesn’t have the structural capacity to handle an economic boom without becoming inflationary again’

Summed up we need a huge focus on productivity policies.

Economy - stalling through lack of capital; lack of tax and investment in social services
Economists - we need more capital invested to fix our issues
Labour - let’s raid the limited capital
economy and tax ourselves rich

 

[miket12]

To be honest, I don’t know much about Ireland’s policies. But it’s an impressive turnaround from where they were


Rank Country Continent GDP-PPP per capita (in USD)
1 Luxembourg Europe 143,740 thousand
2 Macao SAR Asia 134,140 thousand
3 Ireland Europe 133,900 thousand
4 Singapore Asia 133,740 thousand
5 Qatar Middle East 112,280 thousand
6 United Arab Emirates Asia 96,850 thousand
7 Switzerland Europe 91,930 thousand
8 San Marino Europe 86,990 thousand
9 United States North America 85,370 thousand
10 Norway Europe 82,830 thousand

Interesting that Luxembourg has a CGT on the sale of all properties (even family homes) but it's only paid for property held less than six months.

 

[Noitall]

Interesting that Luxembourg has a CGT on the sale of all properties (even family homes) but it's only paid for property held less than six months.

Crazy that a country of over 668,000 has 266 billionaires. Seems like a property sold sooner than 6 months would lead to belief that a property developer is benefiting rather than a legitimate house sale

 

[juju]

Google Search

Not sure if you saw it yesterday but the whole interview is worthy of a watch. We are performing very poorly. Out of 190 countries, our growth sits at number 179

That was a train wreck of an interview.
Admitting to making race relations worse. Yikes.

He's not a good or well liked PM full stop

Having one coalition partner saying you're "Struggling" and the other gloating in the media saying they have a disproportionate influence over the current Government. Lol


View: https://imgur.com/media-training-t5mVo4u

 

[Noitall]

The article talks about our low productivity for a long time and we’re seeing evidence of it everywhere now.

It even says: ‘the RBNZ is suggesting that this economy doesn’t have the structural capacity to handle an economic boom without becoming inflationary again’

Summed up we need a huge focus on productivity policies.

Economy - stalling through lack of capital; lack of tax and investment in social services
Economists - we need more capital invested to fix our issues
Labour - let’s raid the limited capital
economy and tax ourselves rich

Economic recovery to happen later than first thought

Treasury's chief economist has warned a weaker economic outlook means a delay in a return to growth.

www.rnz.co.nz

Looking at Ireland’s trajectory back towards favourable numbers it indicates consumer spending has been a big influence. This article cites spending as being one of the hinderances of us returning to favourable numbers with us in recession for 2 years now. Not even the tax cuts implemented by this government have led to higher consumer spending to the economy

 

[Noitall]

That was a train wreck of an interview.
Admitting to making race relations worse. Yikes.

He's not a good or well liked PM full stop

Having one coalition partner saying you're "Struggling" and the other gloating in the media saying they have a disproportionate influence over the current Government. Lol


View: https://imgur.com/media-training-t5mVo4u

What I would just say to you is his media training needs work

 

[Inruin]

Economic recovery to happen later than first thought

Treasury's chief economist has warned a weaker economic outlook means a delay in a return to growth.

www.rnz.co.nz

Looking at Ireland’s trajectory back towards favourable numbers it indicates consumer spending has been a big influence. This article cites spending as being one of the hinderances of us returning to favourable numbers with us in recession for 2 years now. Not even the tax cuts implemented by this government have led to higher consumer spending to the economy

Perhaps we should become a major tax haven for corporations as well?