Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[Warriorsfan92]

Do you mind mes asking how old you are mate, because you pretty much described 9 years under National/ACT

31. Why’s that?

 

[MrFrankWhite]

I do think some form of "wealth tax" is required (even in the way of a gifting or inheritance tax) I just think the thresholds which were proposed by the Māori Party and the Greens in their policies was too low. There's a difference between targeting 1% and targeting 10%. I think if they broadened their targets, it would be far more palatable to the voting public.... instead, it's basically targeting anyone with a mortgage free house in a middle suburb in Auckland who either runs a successful small business and has a descent amount saved for retirement.

The other thing is that their aim was poverty reduction but what was glaringly missing in their policy was there was no method in how this was going to be achieved i.e. were benefits, schooling and health budgets going to rise using that money or was it just going into the consolidated fund. It's okay to talk about wealth distribution but if the money raised isn't bringing people out of poverty, then it's not helping them.

Bro that was my global socio-psychological economic theory . It wasn't an essay on the microcosm that is NZ fucked up economy.

I dont follow NZ domestic policy in detail because it will be the same tried and true failed policies that have used and discarded elsewhere.

 

[Noitall]

voting is fundamentally selfish in nature imo. What policies will benefit me? In a state of a crumbling economy, high inflation, high interest rates & a cost of living crisis, this selfishness is heightened. We’ve had 6 years of welfare, state house building, second chance for criminals & light sentences. How has that served us? Crime is out of control, essential foods are up 15%, our health system & infrastructure is cracking (literally) & we have gone backwards as a society & more divisive than I can remember. Labour had to contend with some bad weather & a pandemic.

But the pandemic cannot be blamed for the RNZ merger, light rail, 3 waters, te pukenga merger & a continual waste of money for consultants deciding on projects no one wants or needs. National are traditionally the party that focusses on spending cuts, education, infrastructure & rebuilding an economy. It makes logical sense that labour were ousted, given the predicament we find ourselves in. Labour have had the chance to right wrongs, and have allocated spending in the wrong areas.

I know I will get burnt for saying this, but again, this vote was for me. I have a large student loan, I work my ass off, and I’m sick of being in the crunched middle. You should be rewarded for contributing to society & increasing the GDP. This is not an attack on the ‘poor’, because the poor haven’t exactly been looked after under labour. Inflation and cost of living disproportionally affects the poor, and we need to get out of this. We need to encourage people to go after it, dangle the carrot that through self improvement & getting after it, you too can be successful.

I don’t come from a wealthy background. But I don’t agree with endless handouts & the soft on crime approach. I’ve lived in Auckland for 5 years, we’ve endured multiple lockdowns, unfair fuel taxes, rapidly increasing crime & a failure of public transport.

Labour were ousted more than anything. But we truely can’t do any worse. National have a task on their hands, but I’m far more comfortable with them in control. I don’t expect massive changes for months/years, but I’m happy someone else will be given an opportunity.

Society as a whole is selfish in today’s world, thankfully previous generations were prepared to sacrifice for upcoming generations in the most horrific of circumstances. Instead today we can’t even commit to emission targets for the betterment of future generations instead justifying it by if so and so isn’t doing it why can’t I keep polluting.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

voting is fundamentally selfish in nature imo. What policies will benefit me? In a state of a crumbling economy, high inflation, high interest rates & a cost of living crisis, this selfishness is heightened. We’ve had 6 years of welfare, state house building, second chance for criminals & light sentences. How has that served us? Crime is out of control, essential foods are up 15%, our health system & infrastructure is cracking (literally) & we have gone backwards as a society & more divisive than I can remember. Labour had to contend with some bad weather & a pandemic.

All western societies have

But the pandemic cannot be blamed for the RNZ merger, light rail, 3 waters, te pukenga merger & a continual waste of money for consultants deciding on projects no one wants or needs. National are traditionally the party that focusses on spending cuts, education, infrastructure & rebuilding an economy. It makes logical sense that labour were ousted, given the predicament we find ourselves in. Labour have had the chance to right wrongs, and have allocated spending in the wrong areas.

Show me any ground breaking forward thinking leadership from and of the top western countries.

I know I will get burnt for saying this, but again, this vote was for me. I have a large student loan, I work my ass off, and I’m sick of being in the crunched middle. You should be rewarded for contributing to society & increasing the GDP. This is not an attack on the ‘poor’, because the poor haven’t exactly been looked after under labour. Inflation and cost of living disproportionally affects the poor, and we need to get out of this. We need to encourage people to go after it, dangle the carrot that through self improvement & getting after it, you too can be successful.

All voting is a vote for yourself. You genuinely think any of your fellow citizens are actually voting to improve the country? Most cant even conceive of what that looks like.

I don’t come from a wealthy background. But I don’t agree with endless handouts & the soft on crime approach. I’ve lived in Auckland for 5 years, we’ve endured multiple lockdowns, unfair fuel taxes, rapidly increasing crime & a failure of public transport.

Labour were ousted more than anything. But we truely can’t do any worse. National have a task on their hands, but I’m far more comfortable with them in control. I don’t expect massive changes for months/years, but I’m happy someone else will be given an opportunity.

All wealth is redistributed, is skill is deciding how its done.

Again this isn't an in endorsement for NZ Labor. Your skill pool is a muddy puddle.

 

[miket12]

Bro that was my global socio-psychological economic theory . It wasn't an essay on the microcosm that is NZ fucked up economy.

I dont follow NZ domestic policy in detail because it will be the same tried and true failed policies that have used and discarded elsewhere.

I think globally there needs to be a better way of redistributing wealth (without bordering on communism). I just think they set the ceiling too low here. I actually like Bernie Sanders thinking on it (even though, economically I'd be more to the right than him).

 

[MrFrankWhite]

I think globally there needs to be a better way of redistributing wealth (without bordering on communism). I just think they set the ceiling too low here. I actually like Bernie Sanders thinking on it (even though, economically I'd be more to the right than him).

Will never happen. Individual democratic countries can barely agree on their best interests. How will that happen globally?

For example, nuclear is the best option we have for endless zero carbon electricty. NZ is nuclear free. How does that help the world?

 

[juju]

Sorry, but I think you might be wrong. Looking at the official figures from the last election, there was just over 2,885,000 votes cast including the specials. This year, there was 2,244,000 cast on Saturday night plus an estimated 560,000 still to be counted. That's an estimated difference of 81,000, not 640,000 using your figures of 2.9m (2020) less 2.2m + 60,000 (2023 vote plus specials).

2020 General Election official results

The Electoral Commission has declared the official results for the 2020 General Election and referendums.

elections.nz

Preliminary results for the 2023 General Election

The Electoral Commission has released the preliminary results for the 2023 General Election.

elections.nz

Yeah you are right / my bad.

107 706 less votes and a 5% lower turnout by the looks between 23 and 20.

100 000 votes can potentially have a drastic effect to the complexion of parliament

 

[Noitall]

I don’t Think many would have an issue with a wealth tax focussed on the top 1%. It makes logical sense. But how was that money going to be spent? If it was going to be spent to improve healthcare outcomes for all, better roading, improved outcomes in education etc then absolutely. But a Robin Hood approach of taking from the rich & giving to the poor is a dangerous precedent, flirting with elements of communism. I think we need to be careful with disincentivising chasing wealth & success, this has never worked anywhere. But I do think a distribution of the wealth held by the 1%, to improve society as a whole is a sound idea.

Unfortunately there’s no middle ground with the likes of David Seymour branding it an envy tax even though some have come out and said they feel they should contribute more, those branded by him as grandstanders. Any wealth tax of any sort certainly won’t be endorsed by Seymour while in government.

 

[Inruin]

Unfortunately there’s no middle ground with the likes of David Seymour branding it an envy tax even though some have come out and said they feel they should contribute more, those branded by him as grandstanders. Any wealth tax of any sort certainly won’t be endorsed by Seymour while in government.

The thing I don't get is if they feel like they should be contributing more why don't they?

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Also what you are seeing in NZ is what happened in the US post Obama.

Slightly left of centre leaders get elected in a wave of hope and reform, which never eventuates because the voting public doesn't want it, and being slightly left of centre naturally wants to be popular, so hard choices arent made.

When the hope dies and people are left disillusioned an idioic conversative leader is elected ala Trump / Luxon.

 

[Noitall]

The thing I don't get is if they feel like they should be contributing more why don't they?

Fold it into paper darts and throw it in the beehive window?

 

[Warriorsfan92]

Society as a whole is selfish in today’s world, thankfully previous generations were prepared to sacrifice for upcoming generations in the most horrific of circumstances. Instead today we can’t even commit to emission targets for the betterment of future generations instead justifying it by if so and so isn’t doing it why can’t I keep polluting.

This is how I see climate change for NZ. Again, prepared to be given shit on this, but that’s the beauty of a democracy.

The changes we make as a country will have little to no effect on the outcomes of climate change, when big polluters like China, India & the US are pumping 100x more CO2 and methane into the atmosphere. Does this discount us from making any effort? Of course not. Our farmers have some of the most Strict regulations in the western world in regards to emissions. There’s a danger of imposing further regulations on the farmers that will force them to reconsider their professions due to ever decreasing profit margins & inability to do their job.

Without farming, the nz economy will capitulate overnight. We are a country of exports & farming. Always have been, and likely always will be (if given the license to).

We have two options.

Option 1: Continue to turn up the climate change regulations on broke kiwis (increase fuel costs, incentivising EV discounts which only helps the wealthy, and increasing food costs due to regulations), in the hope that this will have any bearing on the climate impact nz has.

Option 2: find a middle ground where we continue to strive for reducing our emissions, but also explore options to reduce the burden on every day kiwis. This could include, oil drilling and reduce regulations on farmers.

In closing, option 1 will force more people into poverty due to higher fuel costs & food expenses, with the hope that this will in some way move the needle under 1% in regards to global emission reduction.

Option 2, continue to be world leading in our regulations for cleaner green farming, have some off shore drilling to reduce our ever increasing fuel costs which will enable kiwis to get around easier, boosting GDP, and decreasing the burden of living costs, through a Reduction of fuel costs and food prices.

 

[miket12]

It's interesting that the Greens in German have positioned themselves far more as a centrist party than in New Zealand and are quite frequently in coalition with parties from the left or right. Environmentally, they get more achieved their than the Greens in NZ.

Do our Greens need to become more "central" in the economic and social policies? That could mean they could "work" with both sides not matter if it was National or Labour forming a government.

I'm concerned that climate and environment issues won't be as much of a prioty under the new government. I don't think we should really have to wait 3... 6.... or 9 years till the Greens are back in government.

 

[miket12]

Yeah you are right / my bad.

107 706 less votes and a 5% lower turnout by the looks between 23 and 20.

100 000 votes can potentially have a drastic effect to the complexion of parliament

No problems, if the music biz doesn't work out, you could always get a job working on National's tax policy numbers

 

[juju]

No problems, if the music biz doesn't work out, you could always get a job working on National's tax policy numbers

You reckon? - at least I can admit when I'm wrong

 

[Inruin]

Fold it into paper darts and throw it in the beehive window?

no, not necessarily. I mean if they want to send it to the IRD then go for it.

There are plenty of worthy charities around that would appreciate more donations. If someone is genuinely interested in contributing more and thinks they should there are many avenues for them to do so.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

It's interesting that the Greens in German have positioned themselves far more as a centrist party than in New Zealand and are quite frequently in coalition with parties from the left or right. Environmentally, they get more achieved their than the Greens in NZ.

Bro what.

German greens are the most environmentally destructive group out there. They have been completely overrun by ideology and are losing popular support. Under their "leadership" Germany carbon emission have doubled, while surrounding countries have halved. The effect would be a lot worse, but they have also managed to destroy Germany's industrial base, which used to be its strength.

Do our Greens need to become more "central" in the economic and social policies? That could mean they could "work" with both sides not matter if it was National or Labour forming a government.

I'm concerned that climate and environment issues won't be as much of a prioty under the new government. I don't think we should really have to wait 3... 6.... or 9 years till the Greens are back in government.

In all of NZ's great environmental efforts, has the GENERAL environment around you in NZ gottten better or worse? Ie beaches, rivers, forests, green tracts etc?

 

[juju]

no, not necessarily. I mean if they want to send it to the IRD then go for it.

There are plenty of worthy charities around that would appreciate more donations. If someone is genuinely interested in contributing more and thinks they should there are many avenues for them to do so.

Maybe they do already?

But that doesn't really help to make society more equitable like policy can.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Go Greens!!!

Germany's energy U-turn: Coal instead of gas – DW – 08/04/2022

Berlin has realized it will never again import as much energy from Russia as before the Ukraine war. So the challenge is to wean Germany off its dependence on Russian energy sources, and quickly. The question is how.

www.dw.com

 

[juju]

no, not necessarily. I mean if they want to send it to the IRD then go for it.

There are plenty of worthy charities around that would appreciate more donations. If someone is genuinely interested in contributing more and thinks they should there are many avenues for them to do so.

Or other worthy charities like National, Act & NZF would appreciate more donations.