Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[MrFrankWhite]

I realise you've got those costs from the SA lithium ion plant but, unless it's being calculated differently, those costs seem obsessively high....

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Projected decline in battery pack costs | Statista

The battery pack costs for a 1 MWh battery energy storage system (BESS) are expected to decrease from about 236 U.S.

www.statista.com

I choose the statista stats because I think they would be independent of environmental group influences/bias

We can see power prices in real time though..

 

[MrFrankWhite]

here are real battery prices being paid by real people. Just because some clown puts a number in am excel spreadsheet doesn't make it real, same with projections and studies. This isnt business or engineering where you cant lie. All their numbers are fraudulent.

 

[miket12]

here are real battery prices being paid by real people. Just because some clown puts a number in am excel spreadsheet doesn't make it real, same with projections and studies. This isnt business or engineering where you cant lie. All their numbers are fraudulent.

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Someone needs to ask the question as to why it's nearly 50 times the cost to discharge a battery in South Australia ($6,575) than in Victoria ($135)?




And why does gas generation cost 22 times as much in SA ($1,530) than in Victoria ($161)?

Maybe, it's not just the system that's wrong but how SA calculate the cost?

 

[Inruin]

It's still over 25 years until the first one is supposed to be available commercially, but I'd be interested in seeing if a fusion reactor would suit NZ's needs then. Then again, I'd be in my early 80's then and probably not that interested.

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Sorry, I shouldn't have posted the picture of Inruin and wizard of Tauranga

Definitely muppets and certainly other similarities but you got the wrong colour bro

 

[miket12]

Definitely muppets and certainly other similarities but you got the wrong colour bro

I didn't want to be accused of being puppetist

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Someone needs to ask the question as to why it's nearly 50 times the cost to discharge a battery in South Australia ($6,575) than in Victoria ($135)?

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View attachment 9709

And why does gas generation cost 22 times as much in SA ($1,530) than in Victoria ($161)?

Maybe, it's not just the system that's wrong but how SA calculate the cost?

Nope, that calculation is done nationally, it the NEM system. A TLDR is VIC battery energy is cheap because they don't them. Coal sets the price. You really need to know how electricity markets work and price setting.

The price of the last, highest-priced offer accepted in each interval – the marginal offer – sets the market price, and dispatch volumes for each supplier are simply the aggregate of its accepted offers.

Price Setting Concepts - an Explainer

Guest author, Allan O'Neil, contributes to our series of articles explaining how prices are set the the NEM (as part of how dispatch works). In this article, Allan explains some of the details in the AEMO's "Price Setter" file.

wattclarity.com.au

 

[MaybeTop8]

Well, the head of that well known bastion of communism the ANZ bank is calling for a capital gains tax in New Zealand

‘Time has arrived’ for a capital gains tax, says ANZ boss Antonia Watson

A tax change would be "politically extremely courageous", but fair, the head of the country's largest bank says.

www.rnz.co.nz

 

[JustLikeStartingOver]

Can’t put the genie back in the bottle for WFH, it’s too convenient, only brown nosers and youth who don’t want to work out of their bedroom all the time embrace 5 days in the office.

Just a beat up so it looks like their doing something, there are individuals who never come in citing their pets anxiety or whatever, they may get the hard word.

But for the vast majority hybrid/flexible whatever you want to call it will remain the standard.

Wellington retailers won’t see any uplift until hiring rates increase

 

[MaybeTop8]

Poor decision. No idea. Poor governance

Cabinet has not discussed Interislander ferries replacement - Willis

No discussions or proposals for replacements have gone to Cabinet in the nine months since the government cancelled the new fleet.

www.rnz.co.nz

 

[miket12]

Nope, that calculation is done nationally, it the NEM system. A TLDR is VIC battery energy is cheap because they don't them. Coal sets the price. You really need to know how electricity markets work and price setting.

The price of the last, highest-priced offer accepted in each interval – the marginal offer – sets the market price, and dispatch volumes for each supplier are simply the aggregate of its accepted offers.

Price Setting Concepts - an Explainer

Guest author, Allan O'Neil, contributes to our series of articles explaining how prices are set the the NEM (as part of how dispatch works). In this article, Allan explains some of the details in the AEMO's "Price Setter" file.

wattclarity.com.au

But, according to those screenshot, Victoria were using them, were using them at a greater capacity and paying less for the power.

From reading this, it's not the average SA pay every time the battery is used (otherwise the other screenshot you posted wouldn't show that they were only paying $314 MW/h). It would be more accurate to see what the average cost each time it's used because seeing one for over $6,000 is pretty misleading.

 

[MaybeTop8]

lobbying - corruption

Gas industry boasts about killing proposed ban with lobbying

Gas NZ went to an international fossil fuel forum and claimed responsibility for killing off a proposed government ban on new gas connections.

www.rnz.co.nz

 

[MrFrankWhite]

But, according to those screenshot, Victoria were using them, were using them at a greater capacity and paying less for the power.

Bro TBH you aren't grasping how the market works. VIC has endless coal that is always generating, it sets the price. Doesn't matter how much battery juice VIC uses, it doesn't NEED it, so you can only sell it at the price of the marginal generator.

From reading this, it's not the average SA pay every time the battery is used (otherwise the other screenshot you posted wouldn't show that they were only paying $314 MW/h). It would be more accurate to see what the average cost each time it's used because seeing one for over $6,000 is pretty misleading.

Its the average for the bid stacks combined

 

[MrFrankWhite]

I assume you didnt read the link

 

[miket12]

Bro TBH you aren't grasping how the market works. VIC has endless coal that is always generating, it sets the price. Doesn't matter how much battery juice VIC uses, it doesn't NEED it, so you can only sell it at the price of the marginal generator.

Its the average for the bid stacks combined

And right now, on openelectricty, its showing $299. Why the difference between that and the over $6,000? Because it's based on demand.

The SA average for the battery was $230 for the last month. Picking a time when the wind generation was low, at the end of the day (when solar generation was low) meant the yesterday at 6PM, the battery usage spiked at over $6,000.... it's not the usual but was when the battery did what it was supposed to do, supplement the power generation, is misleading. In fact, the moment in time you're trying to use to show how expensive it is to get power from a battery was the worst time in the last 30 days.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

And right now, on openelectricty, its showing $299. Why the difference between that and the over $6,000? Because it's based on demand.

No its not. Its based on supply.

Offers to supply volumes of power are “stacked” like blocks in order of increasing price, with the height of each block representing offer volume, creating a bidstack; the aggregated demand level is overlaid, and just enough offers are accepted – dispatched – so that the cumulative volume of dispatched offers just equals the demand to be supplied at the end of each dispatch interval.

The price of the last, highest-priced offer accepted in each interval – the marginal offer – sets the market price, and dispatch volumes for each supplier are simply the aggregate of its accepted offers.

If we assign a cost to each accepted offer, being its offer price multiplied by its volume (or part-volume in the case of the marginal offer), then two results should be obvious:

• least cost dispatch: for this simple case, dispatching offers by “moving up the bidstack” in increasing price order to meet demand yields the supply combination which has the lowest total cost (where total cost is simply the sum of accepted offer costs), and
• price = marginal cost: the price of the marginal offer which sets the market price is also the marginal (incremental) cost of supplying one further unit of demand (where this unit is just a very small fraction of total demand and typical offer sizes).

Price Setting Concepts - an Explainer

Guest author, Allan O'Neil, contributes to our series of articles explaining how prices are set the the NEM (as part of how dispatch works). In this article, Allan explains some of the details in the AEMO's "Price Setter" file.

wattclarity.com.au

The SA average for the battery was $230 for the last month. Picking a time when the wind generation was low, at the end of the day (when solar generation was low) meant the yesterday at 6PM, the battery usage spiked at over $6,000.... it's not the usual but was when the battery did what it was supposed to do, supplement the power generation, is misleading. In fact, the moment in time you're trying to use to show how expensive it is to get power from a battery was the worst time in the last 30 days.

I didn't pick at time, it was the immediate previously 24hrs to when I posted. Lol go check the dates. This is what a capacity foctor of ~30% looks like in real life.

 

[marv.]

what the energia solare?!???

i’m quite sure i don’t understand a fucking word of what you guys are arguing about.

i’ll go ahead and assume its that villainous coalitions fault though.

 

[Rick O’Shay]

Well, the head of that well known bastion of communism the ANZ bank is calling for a capital gains tax in New Zealand

‘Time has arrived’ for a capital gains tax, says ANZ boss Antonia Watson

A tax change would be "politically extremely courageous", but fair, the head of the country's largest bank says.

www.rnz.co.nz

And would certainly deflect or postpone any further discussion on bank profits no doubt.

 

[MaybeTop8]

And would certainly deflect or postpone any further discussion on bank profits no doubt.

Nice try at deflection Rick. Or maybe, just maybe, when even those traditionally big business are pointing out it's grossly unfair and promoting inequality (and I'll add in enriching the already rich and let's NOT forget about those poor, poor landlords with multiple properties), maybe, just maybe we need a capital gains tax.

End of story.

 

[Rick O’Shay]

Nice try at deflection Rick. Or maybe, just maybe, when even those traditionally big business are pointing out it's grossly unfair and promoting inequality (and I'll add in enriching the already rich and let's NOT forget about those poor, poor landlords with multiple properties), maybe, just maybe we need a capital gains tax.

End of story.

No deflection, I'm all for CGT and pay a heap already but I find it rich, pardon the pun that the CEO of the most profitable bank in Australasia all of a sudden thinks it's a good idea. She hasn't mentioned stamp duty yet nor land tax which she's probably saving for a rainy day. Nothing said by any bank executive or bank economist passes the sniff test IMO.

 

[marv.]

i really need to stop replying to buddy’s stuff because i think he actually has a head injury or learning disability but if anyone believes for a second anything that comes out of a snake like antonia watson mouth, i would suggest you look into her setting up the former CEO with THAT property, then throwing him under the bus and taking not only his job but the fucking property too.

she’s not a capitalist come good, she’s just getting ahead of the other banks empty announcements in hopes that idiots will change their banking to ANZ.

trust.
i know someone VERY well who works not only for ANZ but for her.

or give all your banking to ANZ cos she’s a now all of a sudden a good guy.

makes zero difference to me.