Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[MaybeTop8]

So let's see - Simeon Brown cancels the Lake Onslow storage project that would have solved storage issues for our national grid, and then blames the Labour Government for not investing enough in fossil fuels.

Classic neoliberalism tactics - create a crisis to suit the agenda you want.

 

[Mr Drag]

I hope green voters led the way by reducing power this morning. Seen as they caused all these problems

Hitler was more Green than Fascist, The truth will come out!

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

So let's see - Simeon Brown cancels the Lake Onslow storage project that would have solved storage issues for our national grid, and then blames the Labour Government for not investing enough in fossil fuels.

Classic neoliberalism tactics - create a crisis to suit the agenda you want.

Lake Onslow was due in 2040 (16 years time)

I think the problem is the govt banned home heating with fires, enforced AC in rentals, promoted E vehicles, took in 200k immigrants last year so significantly increased demand… and you think their solution was 16 years away so it’s Nationals fault

Purposefully increasing demand with no supply solution (in fact making it worse by removing gas) is classic Labour/ Greens.

I could be argued Lake Onslow was a huge disincentive to investment for the next 16 years.

 

[miket12]

Lake Onslow was due in 2040 (16 years time)

I think the problem is the govt banned home heating with fires, enforced AC in rentals, promoted E vehicles, took in 200k immigrants last year so significantly increased demand… and you think their solution was 16 years away so it’s Nationals fault

Purposefully increasing demand with no supply solution (in fact making it worse by removing gas) is classic Labour/ Greens.

I could be argued Lake Onslow was a huge disincentive to investment for the next 16 years.

And that’s not even taking in to consideration that the Lake Onslow scheme requires a large percentage of the energy the “battery” produces to pump the water back up into Lake Onslow again. In fact, overseas experience has shown that hydro battery solutions is one of the most expensive ways of producing power.

For the estimated, and unbudgeted, $16 billion Lake Onslow scheme, the country could build two nuclear power plants (MIT estimate that a NPP costs between $2-4 billion USD to construct depending on size)….and have change left over for a roofed stadium in Auckland and new Cook Strait ferries and terminals.

Or another solution, $16 billion is the same as giving every household in NZ an $8,000 grant to put in a solar power system.

And people are dreaming if they think that $16,000,000,000 would be the final cost of that system. Just think of the cost blowouts of the Cook Strait ferry terminals, Transmission Gully, the CRL, the Auckland Convention Centre, etc.

 

[dean]

I see AT are introducing parking charges 24-7 for all parking in an area that runs from the viaduct to Symonds St and across to Parnell. Huge increase in living costs for those folk living within that area having to park their car on the street.
Ideological madness coupled with revenue collecting destroying inner city living.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

So let's see - Simeon Brown cancels the Lake Onslow storage project that would have solved storage issues for our national grid, and then blames the Labour Government for not investing enough in fossil fuels.

Classic neoliberalism tactics - create a crisis to suit the agenda you want.

As an electrician there’s also a looming billions in investment in power distribution required both up and down the country and up and down streets with the surge in E- vehicles and AC with no plan for how to pay for it…

 

[MaybeTop8]

Hitler was more Green than Fascist, The truth will come out!

Yawn. Cite some references.

 

[MaybeTop8]

As an electrician there’s also a looming billions in investment in power distribution required both up and down the country and up and down streets with the surge in E- vehicles and AC with no plan for how to pay for it…

Yep. Thanks neoliberalism for that too, given profit extraction has driven the lack of investment away from fossil fuels.

 

[MaybeTop8]

And that’s not even taking in to consideration that the Lake Onslow scheme requires a large percentage of the energy the “battery” produces to pump the water back up into Lake Onslow again. In fact, overseas experience has shown that hydro battery solutions is one of the most expensive ways of producing power.

For the estimated, and unbudgeted, $16 billion Lake Onslow scheme, the country could build two nuclear power plants (MIT estimate that a NPP costs between $2-4 billion USD to construct depending on size)….and have change left over for a roofed stadium in Auckland and new Cook Strait ferries and terminals.

Or another solution, $16 billion is the same as giving every household in NZ an $8,000 grant to put in a solar power system.

And people are dreaming if they think that $16,000,000,000 would be the final cost of that system. Just think of the cost blowouts of the Cook Strait ferry terminals, Transmission Gully, the CRL, the Auckland Convention Centre, etc.

So we do nothing except what? More fossil fuels? Short termism while the planet burns ever intensely.

 

[miket12]

So we do nothing except what? More fossil fuels? Short termism while the planet burns ever intensely.

No….. we look at alternatives like the two I’ve mentioned instead off considering one of the most expensive options not just in terms of the initial construction but then the costs of actually using it. Especially when you consider that it’s not for supplying power every day but as a back up for when the hydro lakes are low or there’s not enough wind for power generation.

Short termism is only considering one option which wouldn’t be available for 16 years…. while the environmentalists sit around until then praying to Mother Earth for wind, lots of rain for lakes and sunshine for solar farms. A scheme to provide grants for solar systems could be underway in 12-18 months.

 

[dean]

Short termism is only considering one option which wouldn’t be available for 16 years…. while the environmentalists sit around until then praying to Mother Earth for wind, lots of rain for lakes and sunshine for solar farms.

and drinking endless cups of herb tea and vaping.

 

[MaybeTop8]

and drinking endless cups of herb tea and vaping.

yes yes, we all know you hate progressive thinking dean

 

[miket12]

So we do nothing except what? More fossil fuels? Short termism while the planet burns ever intensely.

You also realise that because we started to reduce the gas that could be used for power generation we are instead reactivating coal generation when the hydro and other renewables are restricted. And, because we’ve reduced coal extraction, we have to import foreign coal which creates even more green house gases as the quality of the coal isn’t as good as what we have here.

The desire to go down an ideological pathway has made things worse…. not better

 

[dean]

yes yes, we all know you hate progressive thinking dean

I always think ahead. That is why I bought a hilux instead of a tesla and burn wood for heating and hot water.
In fact, wife and I went out on Friday firewood scavenging in a DOC reserve armed with my chainsaw and the trailer on the back of the hilux. Cosy for the next month, will go back in the next week for another load. That is thinking ahead isn't it?

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Yep. Thanks neoliberalism for that too, given profit extraction has driven the lack of investment away from fossil fuels.

Money flows to returns. Theres no investment in renewables without public subsidies. The sooner the far left get that, the sooner we can have a meaningful energy debate.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

So we do nothing except what? More fossil fuels? Short termism while the planet burns ever intensely.

Again, show how 5 billion people can survive without the 4 pillars of civilisation. Concrete, plastic, ammonia, and steel.

And the planet isn't burning intensely. There is no metric important to humans that's in crisis. We have more food, land, water and safety than ever.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Money flows to returns. Theres no investment in renewables without public subsidies. The sooner the far left get that, the sooner we can have a meaningful energy debate.

And the sooner the conservatives acknowledge we're killing our planet and look to actually do something about it by changing the thinking and economic models around renewables the sooner the right and far right (and by the way, what far left? Labour's still neo liberal, the greens are left) the sooner we can stop destroying what little environment we have and actually build a sustainable future.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Money flows to returns. Theres no investment in renewables without public subsidies. The sooner the far left get that, the sooner we can have a meaningful energy debate.

Well, you mean the rich get richer and don't give a fuck about anyone else.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

And the sooner the conservatives acknowledge we're killing our planet and look to actually do something about it by changing the thinking and economic models around renewables the sooner the right and far right (and by the way, what far left? Labour's still neo liberal, the greens are left) the sooner we can stop destroying what little environment we have and actually build a sustainable future.

Bullshit. Pollution is killing our environment and we have made meaningful progress but more needs to be done.
As for the planet, what's your metric for killing the planet?

Temperature? What should the temp be and why?
CO2 levels? What should the level be and why?

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Well, you mean the rich get richer and don't give a fuck about anyone else.

Complete fantasy. If that was the case philanthropy and charities wouldn't exists. As per a recent study, its not rich parents that determine success, its IQ. Instead of being bitter about capitalism (that's lifted more people from poverty than any other political system) you could benefit from it.

I grew up in a single mother household in NZ. Was running with gangs by 13, out of school and home at 15, to retired from the military at 41, owning property and businesses, with a networth that has 3 commas in it.

Most people are responsible for the positions they find themselves in.