Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[defensivebomb]

Sorry but your last paragraph doesn't seem to make too much sense.

What I meant was that he just doesn’t seem like a statesman, with the gravitas, , charisma and professionalism of a country leader. He looks and feels like a standin, or someone in opposition. Perhaps that is symptomatic of Labour’s record, or lack of confidence around how to turn the country around.

Luxon, on the other hand, doesn’t have charisma either, but he looked and felt more like a country leader

This is purely superficial, I know.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Just another bonkers media rant from a poster that says he's main media source is the NZ Herald.

I won’t debate with those that are fully immersed in the propaganda. I’ll just reflect on this…

the fact people believe their BS shows how stuffed NZ is.

 

[Rick O’Shay]

Thought it was pretty even but maybe Luxon by a whisker. Uninspiring though.

The after match panel was a joke. Tau looked like he'd had a few too many, Maike looked pissed as her boy wasn't winning and Cunliffe didn't know where he was. Surely to god our main broadcaster could have done better than that.

 

[defensivebomb]

Here they are in all their glory

 

[juju]

I won’t debate with those that are fully immersed in the propaganda. I’ll just reflect on this…

Good idea for you - cause you're coming over all covid thread.

Trying testing you intellect and read something a bit more challenging than the NZ Herald.

Manchild.

 

[juju]

Corruption of Democracy?

Or ok if it's wealthy people funding right wing parties...

Billionaire Graeme Hart's $700k in donations to right wing parties

Billionaire Graeme Hart has donated a total of $700,000 to National, ACT and NZ First in the past two years.

www.rnz.co.nz

 

[defensivebomb]

Corruption of Democracy?

Or ok if it's wealthy people funding right wing parties...

Billionaire Graeme Hart's $700k in donations to right wing parties

Billionaire Graeme Hart has donated a total of $700,000 to National, ACT and NZ First in the past two years.

www.rnz.co.nz

There are a few things here to consider:

• Given what Winston served up the last time he got his greasy hands on power, I wouldn't consider him as "right wing"
• Apparently there have been no significant donations from businesses to Labour for the past two years (though there were previously). That fact tells you something
• While all political parties across the spectrum take large donations, Stuart Nash, a "left winger" was corrupted by his wealthy donors, and leaked cabinet information to them

To consider whether democracy is corrupted, yeah I can probably agree with your point, particularly with large donations. Maybe there should be some sort of general fund that they have to donate to that all parties can access, so voters at least have awareness of other policies.

My biggest gripe with how democracy is being fiddled is co-governance, and how Labour is attempting to undermine democracy with it. Willie Jackson himself said "democracy has changed from being the tyranny of the majority and people need to stop being scared of co-governance"

That's a bigger issue than large donations

 

[juju]

There are a few things here to consider:

• Given what Winston served up the last time he got his greasy hands on power, I wouldn't consider him as "right wing"
• Apparently there have been no significant donations from businesses to Labour for the past two years (though there were previously). That fact tells you something
• While all political parties across the spectrum take large donations, Stuart Nash, a "left winger" was corrupted by his wealthy donors, and leaked cabinet information to them

To consider whether democracy is corrupted, yeah I can probably agree with your point, particularly with large donations. Maybe there should be some sort of general fund that they have to donate to that all parties can access, so voters at least have awareness of other policies.

My biggest gripe with how democracy is being fiddled is co-governance, and how Labour is attempting to undermine democracy with it. Willie Jackson himself said "democracy has changed from being the tyranny of the majority and people need to stop being scared of co-governance"

That's a bigger issue than large donations

It's an interesting topic to ponder when it's in such plain sight - especially juxtaposed against the hysterical rants about the NZ media operating a vast conspiracy on behalf of the labour party.

How exactly are Labour attempting to undermine democracy? Isn't it the purpose of co governance to address historical inequities and meet obligations to the treaty of waitangi.
Are we ok with our indigenous culture having vastly worse outcomes in life?
I think it's a topic that has just been really poorly explained & misunderstood & politicised.

 

[NZDoug]

They agreed on most stuff, a Nats/Labour coalition would keep the looney tunes out.

 

[defensivebomb]

How exactly are Labour attempting to undermine democracy?

3 Waters is a good example. The roll out of co-governance, is, at its core, undemocratic

Isn't it the purpose of co governance to address historical inequities and meet obligations to the treaty of waitangi.

the treaty doesn’t mention nor define co governance, but there is a whole industry around interpreting it. Unfortunately I don’t believe we will ever have alignment on it. So it is quite hard to implement “co governance” when there is debate around the principles of the treaty. Have a read of the treaty itself. It’s only 4 paragraphs long, and is quite easy to see how difficult it is getting alignment on it, wherever you sit politically

If we are trying to achieve equity, where does one draw the line? Equal outcomes will mean all sorts of different things to different people. At one end, it could be argued that equal outcomes is equal wealth. On the health-side, where does personal choice sit?

Are we ok with our indigenous culture having vastly worse outcomes in life?

Definitely not OK with it. I just think having a group of undemocratically elected people presiding over certain things (e.g. our water infrastructure assets) doesn’t achieve equitable outcomes, or meet obligations under the treaty. Especially when you hear rhetoric from Tuaruki Delamere, and how he'd like to have control ($$) over Auckland's water

On the health side, i believe we should be treated according to need, by medical professionals. Doctors should be blind to race. At the end of the day, we are all human.

If there are issues with the process before people get to the medical facility, let’s fix those issues. In addition, given healthcare is so underfunded, it doesn't make sense to operate the system uneconomically.

To me, healthcare should be one of those areas where we just strip everything down to considering how to best cure a human. The great leveller

I went on my son's school camp earlier this year and there were a few medical professionals there. They told me stories about how they prioritised their list of patients, based on medical need and intervention. They would shortly thereafter have a visit from Te Whatu Ora, reprioritising their list, based on race. It's actually kinda crazy we have the suits dictating the medical talent which patients need to be seen.

I think it's a topic that has just been really poorly explained & misunderstood & politicised.

100% agree

 

[Bay39er]

The debate ruined by the moderator who wouldn’t let them debate

She wanted to be the centre of attention

 

[Rick O’Shay]

The debate ruined by the moderator who wouldn’t let them debate

She wanted to be the centre of attention

IMO she likes the sound of her own voice and is exactly the same on the news.

Political editor indeed, would have thought there were many more eminently qualified people around to moderate that debate.

 

[dean]

Bring back Lindsay Perigo. This lot is hopeless compared to him.

 

[defensivebomb]

JMM: "What would you do if China invaded Taiwan?"

She managed to boil down decades of delicate diplomacy into a throwaway line to a sitting PM and potential PM like a clumsy Ivanka Trump rubbing shoulders with Merkel and co at the G20

 

[Evil_Mush]

I didn't watch the debate, but with these two we're surely not going to beat the classic "well my husband is Samoan, so .... Talofa"

Comedy gold!

 

[John Nick]

JMM: "What would you do if China invaded Taiwan?"

She managed to boil down decades of delicate diplomacy into a throwaway line to a sitting PM and potential PM like a clumsy Ivanka Trump rubbing shoulders with Merkel and co at the G20

Yeah what a dumb question.
I cannot understand how we have to settle for this stupid shit and how she became a political presenter.
Bit like our politicians who are way below standard.
We have financial ministers with fuck all qualifications.

 

[Rick O’Shay]

I didn't watch the debate, but with these two we're surely not going to beat the classic "well my husband is Samoan, so .... Talofa"

Comedy gold!

Baldy did say his wife is the most famous EV owner in NZ.

Chippy still can't figure why his missus shot the gap with the kids although he did comment he was a family man.

 

[NZDoug]

Yeah what a dumb question.
I cannot understand how we have to settle for this stupid shit and how she became a political presenter.
Bit like our politicians who are way below standard.
We have financial ministers with fuck all qualifications.

Spud Luxon should have said”. We would invade Israel”.

 

[mrblonde]

JMM: "What would you do if China invaded Taiwan?"

She managed to boil down decades of delicate diplomacy into a throwaway line to a sitting PM and potential PM like a clumsy Ivanka Trump rubbing shoulders with Merkel and co at the G20

Just what the Americans would do.

Nothing. Except send the bestest thoughts and prayers to the Taiwanese and make frowny faces when being interviewed on TV to show the Chinese how Few Re Us we are with them. But let's not ruin our trade arrangements over this. Or escalate it.

 

[NZDoug]

Just what the Americans would do.

Nothing. Except send the bestest thoughts and prayers to the Taiwanese and make frowny faces when being interviewed on TV to show the Chinese how Few Re Us we are with them. But let's not ruin our trade arrangements over this. Or escalate it.

Not stupid enough to attract international attention