Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[wizard of Tauranga]

Sigh. I've never suggested electric vehicles shouldn't pay road user charges. There's that pattern again of attributing comments and words that I haven't said.

It's common and frequent from certain commenters in this forum.

If there's such huge investment what's disappointing is this governement's desire to turn people away from evs and lift fees on polluting vehicles. That's insanity.

Regressive and damaging.

Isn’t it regressive that the poor people in old combustion engines pay most of the road tax and the rich people who can afford to buy EVs get subsidised?

 

[John Nick]

Isn’t it regressive that the poor people in old combustion engines pay most of the road tax and the rich people who can afford to buy EVs get subsidised?

Sounds pretty normal to me

 

[Rick O’Shay]

Sigh. I've never suggested electric vehicles shouldn't pay road user charges. There's that pattern again of attributing comments and words that I haven't said.

It's common and frequent from certain commenters in this forum.

If there's such huge investment what's disappointing is this governement's desire to turn people away from evs and lift fees on polluting vehicles. That's insanity.

Regressive and damaging.

I can't quite remember my friend and excuse me if I've got this wrong, possible senior moment. Weren't you employed in the transport industry in Auckland. If so, we're talking AT or NZTA so you owe us all an apology for the abject state of our roads and transport systems.

Please don't blame the neoliberal or free market system, as unless you're dressed in sackcloth and living under Grafton Bridge, I suspect you've done ok under such systems.



Hypocrisy?

 

[John Nick]

I can't quite remember my friend and excuse me if I've got this wrong, possible senior moment. Weren't you employed in the transport industry in Auckland. If so, we're talking AT or NZTA so you owe us all an apology for the abject state of our roads and transport systems.

Please don't blame the neoliberal or free market system, as unless you're dressed in sackcloth and living under Grafton Bridge, I suspect you've done ok under such systems.



Hypocrisy?

Next week in Tauranga the main road to the port is being thru a complete upgrade.
A few years ago it was partially repaired with a concrete section.
The problem is the heavy traffic.
Hundreds of 50t trucks with logs everyday will do that.

 

[MaybeTop8]

I can't quite remember my friend and excuse me if I've got this wrong, possible senior moment. Weren't you employed in the transport industry in Auckland. If so, we're talking AT or NZTA so you owe us all an apology for the abject state of our roads and transport systems.

Please don't blame the neoliberal or free market system, as unless you're dressed in sackcloth and living under Grafton Bridge, I suspect you've done ok under such systems.



Hypocrisy?

Eh? No idea what you're on about in the first sentence.

The second? We all live under this system. We can do a lot better. And if you want to know a bit about me go back a bit and you'll find some clues.

The third? Meh.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

I'm against utterly regressive policies that fly in the face of such urgent action needed to combat climate change.

Why do EVs need such urgent subsidies? And despite the doomerism, 1.5c has come and gone; and the tipping point not reached.

Here we are, record agricultural output, least number of humans dying from climate related causes. Not seeing the “crisis” myself.

 

[Rick O’Shay]

Eh? No idea what you're on about in the first sentence.

The second? We all live under this system. We can do a lot better. And if you want to know a bit about me go back a bit and you'll find some clues.

The third? Meh.

Ah, so it was a senior moment. I must go back and check my posts.

Yes we do all live under the system, and yes we can do better. The thing is though, and my earlier post referenced it, this system has probably seen you and yours do ok?

 

[MaybeTop8]

Ah, so it was a senior moment. I must go back and check my posts.

Yes we do all live under the system, and yes we can do better. The thing is though, and my earlier post referenced it, this system has probably seen you and yours do ok?

Neoliberalism? Actually not really. It's seen a widening class gap through privilege and wealth that sees us now in a class war, where the haves are moving away at a rapid rate of knots, and sees people more and more enslaved to having to work horrendous hours for not much.

Me personally? I have a roof over my head and can afford to buy food if that's what you mean, and I have a $10000 toyota aqua which is New Zealand's most stolen car, and I can hear test cricket live to air. So yeah, in that sense I'm okay.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Isn’t it regressive that the poor people in old combustion engines pay most of the road tax and the rich people who can afford to buy EVs get subsidised?

Okay - let's subsidise poor people into evs then!!!!! And recycle the old combustion engines! Yeah!

 

[WA Warrior]

Neoliberalism? Actually not really. It's seen a widening class gap through privilege and wealth that sees us now in a class war, where the haves are moving away at a rapid rate of knots, and sees people more and more enslaved to having to work horrendous hours for not much.

Me personally? I have a roof over my head and can afford to buy food if that's what you mean, and I have a $10000 toyota aqua which is New Zealand's most stolen car, and I can hear test cricket live to air. So yeah, in that sense I'm okay.

Take a drink when this lad mentions Neoliberalism…..

 

[Rick O’Shay]

Neoliberalism? Actually not really. It's seen a widening class gap through privilege and wealth that sees us now in a class war, where the haves are moving away at a rapid rate of knots, and sees people more and more enslaved to having to work horrendous hours for not much.

Me personally? I have a roof over my head and can afford to buy food if that's what you mean, and I have a $10000 toyota aqua which is New Zealand's most stolen car, and I can hear test cricket live to air. So yeah, in that sense I'm okay.

Good, I was a bit worried there. Mmmmm. Class war, the old bourgeoise v proletariat.

I respect your position and your ideals.

From my early days as part of the proletariat it didn't take long to figure collectivism would never work because people are individuals, so I guess I'm now part of the bourgeoise.

I still retain that philosophy and along with a number of wealthy people, support those who haven't. Don't make the mistake that wealthy people are all rich pricks who don't contribute. Plus there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Forgot to mention, class wars are long gone, Identity wars are the new thing.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Good, I was a bit worried there. Mmmmm. Class war, the old bourgeoise v proletariat.

I respect your position and your ideals.

From my early days as part of the proletariat it didn't take long to figure collectivism would never work because people are individuals, so I guess I'm now part of the bourgeoise.

I still retain that philosophy and along with a number of wealthy people, support those who haven't. Don't make the mistake that wealthy people are all rich pricks who don't contribute. Plus there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Forgot to mention, class wars are long gone, Identity wars are the new thing.

Agree 100%.

 

[Juno]

Good, I was a bit worried there. Mmmmm. Class war, the old bourgeoise v proletariat.

I respect your position and your ideals.

From my early days as part of the proletariat it didn't take long to figure collectivism would never work because people are individuals, so I guess I'm now part of the bourgeoise.

I still retain that philosophy and along with a number of wealthy people, support those who haven't. Don't make the mistake that wealthy people are all rich pricks who don't contribute. Plus there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Forgot to mention, class wars are long gone, Identity wars are the new thing.

Quite often one and the same, no?

 

[MaybeTop8]

Good, I was a bit worried there. Mmmmm. Class war, the old bourgeoise v proletariat.

I respect your position and your ideals.

From my early days as part of the proletariat it didn't take long to figure collectivism would never work because people are individuals, so I guess I'm now part of the bourgeoise.

I still retain that philosophy and along with a number of wealthy people, support those who haven't. Don't make the mistake that wealthy people are all rich pricks who don't contribute. Plus there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Forgot to mention, class wars are long gone, Identity wars are the new thing.

re: wealthy absolutely not. As mentioned a number of times, I'm not against capitalism per se, just the kind that Geoge Monbiot describes so well here: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/15/neoliberalism-ideology-problem-george-monbiot

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

re: wealthy absolutely not. As mentioned a number of times, I'm not against capitalism per se, just the kind that Geoge Monbiot describes so well here: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/15/neoliberalism-ideology-problem-george-monbiot

The article finishes with: What the history of both Keynesianism and neoliberalism show is that it’s not enough to oppose a broken system. A coherent alternative has to be proposed.

What’s the alternative?

 

[Inruin]

What’s the alternative?

Chloe and Marama co PMs

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Chloe and Marama co PMs

They are still just working within the capitalist neoliberalism agenda though.

I think he’s saying an economic genius needs to come up with a whole new economic platform to operate off.

I don’t think Chloe and Matama are the economic geniuses to pull it off.

 

[Worried2Death]

The article finishes with: What the history of both Keynesianism and neoliberalism show is that it’s not enough to oppose a broken system. A coherent alternative has to be proposed.

What’s the alternative?

History teaches us the golden rule always applies - whoever has the gold makes the rules. There's always a predatory circle of exploitation, currently it's manufactured unemployment to suppress inflation with billions in taxes going to beneficiaries and billions in accommodation supplements paid to the landlords of those unemployed. There's something very wrong with that chain of fools, but I dunno what the answer is. Pull one card out and the whole deck collapses.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

There's always a predatory circle of exploitation,

Here’s a story:

The birds rejoiced when news broke that the farmer that chased them away from his crop of wheat had died! Free wheat for all. And then the following year there was no wheat…

The moral of the story is sometimes your enemy is actually necessary in a symbiotic relationship.

I think it somehow applies to neoliberalism?

 

[Worried2Death]

Here’s a story:

The birds rejoiced when news broke that the farmer that chased them away from his crop of wheat had died! Free wheat for all. And then the following year there was no wheat…

The moral of the story is sometimes your enemy is actually necessary in a symbiotic relationship.

I think it somehow applies to neoliberalism? It’s got to apply to the greens as it was GE free wheat!

Not bad. The sheep are always grateful to the shepherd for protecting him from the wolves, but they still end up on the shepherd's plate.
Dunno what that means. Neoliberalism? Whoops, another beer.