Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[BabylonPink]

Preparing… it’s like preparing for light rail, the left take forever and never achieve their goals.

Based on the commercial radio survey 2023. Pretty reliable source. People might use Spotify and also get some news during the day?

Lenin was fairly prepared.....
Mao.....
I'm trying to think of a far right revolutionary leader.......

 

[MaybeTop8]

Bring it. Treasury recommending capital gains tax.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Bring it. Treasury recommending capital gains tax.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Treasury also recommended reducing current government spending in the article which is politically achievable. Bring it!

If the last Labour govt with a huge majority chickens out, a CGT is never going to happen in NZ.

 

[Inruin]

Treasury also recommended reducing current government spending in the article which is politically achievable. Bring it!

If the last Labour govt with a huge majority chickens out, a CGT is never going to happen in NZ.

That report sounds pretty damning of the previous government doesn't it

 

[MaybeTop8]

That report sounds pretty damning of the previous government doesn't it

And still no comment from the usual suspects on the corruption in the current government.

 

[Inruin]

And still no comment from the usual suspects on the corruption in the current government.

Has there been any actual proof of corruption or just your allegations and assumptions?

And I've already commented on it.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Has there been any actual proof of corruption or just your allegations and assumptions?

And I've already commented on it.

A number of factual links have been provided regarding big tobacco and the current government and it's desire to roll back tobacco reforms the impact of which will greatly worsen the health of new zealanders, greatly increase the cost to society, greatly increase the cost to an already extremely fragile health system and increase the profits of big tobacco.

Again following the pattern of certain commenters you're attributing falsely to myself allegations and assumptions. But anyway, meh to all that, you do what you do.

I strongly recommend this book for understanding how political parties on the right have operated, and continue to operate in this country to retain power and undermine democracy, and enforce the economic system of wealth extraction upwards called neoliberalism.

Dirty Politics - Nicky Hager | 9781927213360 | Amazon.com.au | Books

Dirty Politics [Nicky Hager] on Amazon.com.au. *FREE* shipping on eligible orders. Dirty Politics

www.amazon.com.au

This is in a different league to shoplifting and people that actually own their issues.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Has there been any actual proof of corruption or just your allegations and assumptions?

And I've already commented on it.

Just so we're clear:
Do I think that big tobacco have directly influenced policy in this current government? Yes I do, that is my opinion
Do I think that the two main parties on the right have a disproportionate level of donations and funding from source of the right and far right persuasion? Yes I do - here's 2022 from the electoral commission and I'd bet that 2023 is far more disproportionate - https://elections.nz/democracy-in-n...ew-zealand/party-donations-and-loans-by-year/

Do I think that that funding is provided with the expectation of affecting and distorting policy towards those donors and their organisations? Yes I do, that is my opinion

Do I think that the left is immune from this somehow? No I don't, but there is far more transparency within that political spectrum at the moment

Do I think that right wing so called thinktanks and right wing networks have far too much influence and impact on our democracy to the detriment of all New Zealanders? Yes I do, 100% that is my opinion. And there's much evidence around 40 years of neoliberalism to back that up

One of the main group of talking heads in this country on mainstream and right networks (nzme, the platform) is the New Zealand Initiative. They are a rebranded Business Roundtable, which was a huge and corrupting influence in the 80s and 90s, particularly with the implementation of neoliberal policies, rampant deregulation and asset sales.

Another group that gets readily unquestionably quoted is the Taxpayers Union - also members of the Atlas network, as outlined elsewhere in these pages.

The New Zealand Initiative is also part of the Atlas Network - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Initiative

These groups do not have New Zealand's best interests at heart. They never have, and they never will. That is also my opinion. And it's pretty fact based too.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Just so we're clear:
Do I think that big tobacco have directly influenced policy in this current government? Yes I do, that is my opinion
Do I think that the two main parties on the right have a disproportionate level of donations and funding from source of the right and far right persuasion? Yes I do - here's 2022 from the electoral commission and I'd bet that 2023 is far more disproportionate - https://elections.nz/democracy-in-n...ew-zealand/party-donations-and-loans-by-year/

Do I think that that funding is provided with the expectation of affecting and distorting policy towards those donors and their organisations? Yes I do, that is my opinion

Do I think that the left is immune from this somehow? No I don't, but there is far more transparency within that political spectrum at the moment

Do I think that right wing so called thinktanks and right wing networks have far too much influence and impact on our democracy to the detriment of all New Zealanders? Yes I do, 100% that is my opinion. And there's much evidence around 40 years of neoliberalism to back that up

One of the main group of talking heads in this country on mainstream and right networks (nzme, the platform) is the New Zealand Initiative. They are a rebranded Business Roundtable, which was a huge and corrupting influence in the 80s and 90s, particularly with the implementation of neoliberal policies, rampant deregulation and asset sales.

Another group that gets readily unquestionably quoted is the Taxpayers Union - also members of the Atlas network, as outlined elsewhere in these pages.

The New Zealand Initiative is also part of the Atlas Network - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Initiative

These groups do not have New Zealand's best interests at heart. They never have, and they never will. That is also my opinion. And it's pretty fact based too.

While I sort of agree with most of that, that’s politics. I don’t see corruption. Both sides are pretty equal in all this (eg Rennie always quoted, unions with undue influence, etc). The illogical organised action against Posie Parker who no one in NZ had ever heard of is an outside international left example.

I also think there are dirty politics on the left. Uffindel and Muller were targeted in organised hit jobs. It’s politics.

Both sides clearly pick winners based on their target markets and where they can gather votes. This is not governing for all NZers. Nz first sees 7% of NZer smoke and will act in self interest to represent them. Labour did the same with Maori’s 17% of voters and divided the country. It’s politics.

I think all we want is a government that governs for the majority. That’s why Labour was voted out and why National will need to get the messy stuff out of the way and spend the next 2 years being centralist.

 

[MaybeTop8]

While I sort of agree with most of that, that’s politics. I don’t see corruption. Both sides are pretty equal in all this (eg Rennie always quoted, unions with undue influence, etc). The illogical organised action against Posie Parker who no one in NZ had ever heard of is an outside international left example.

I also think there are dirty politics on the left. Uffindel and Muller were targeted in organised hit jobs. It’s politics.

Both sides clearly pick winners based on their target markets and where they can gather votes. This is not governing for all NZers. Nz first sees 7% of NZer smoke and will act in self interest to represent them. Labour did the same with Maori’s 17% of voters and divided the country. It’s politics.

I think all we want is a government that governs for the majority. That’s why Labour was voted out and why National will need to get the messy stuff out of the way and spend the next 2 years being centralist.

False equivalence wiz. Uffindel a) did do the shit he was accused of and b) It was members of the public who came forward I recall

Muller wasn't in the right space, or had the right skills.

And corrupting the democratic system of a country in favour of a particularly nasty type of wealth extraction isn't politics, it's corruption.

And it's easy to use what-about isms, which have a common effect of distracting from the current issue. In this case I think we should all be very concerned.

And again, jaysis, Big tobacco have made donations and clearly have an influence in this government resulting in a direct change in public health policy IN MY OPINION (there you go Inruin ) - there's a huge chasm, in fact you can't even conflate Labour/Maori and to be honest I'm not even going there, as I really don't know where you've coming from.

 

[miket12]

And again, jaysis, Big tobacco have made donations and clearly have an influence in this government resulting in a direct change in public health policy IN MY OPINION (there you go Inruin ) - there's a huge chasm, in fact you can't even conflate Labour/Maori and to be honest I'm not even going there, as I really don't know where you've coming from.

While I’m not defending tobbaco companies (I’ve seen the impact on my relatives when both smokers and non-smokers, through second hand smoke, have died), I’ve looked through the donation pdf’s on the party for the website you provided earlier and I can’t see any donations made by tobacco companies from. 2020 onwards to either ACT or National. Can you please provide a link showing an evidential link to donations and not an opinion piece because all I can find is articles with opinions and links with former employers or family members…. not any link showing that on “this date” Tobacco Company “A” donated “B” money to either this party or this minister or associate minister.

Without it, it just “dirty politics“ but coming from a different source.

 

[Lord Gnome of Waiheke]

Us centre people are happy with whatever side performs and delivers! The recent left gave us socially left, bad vibes and karma is now at play.

Of more interest is Chloe stating the Greens are now the leader of the left and they are preparing to lead a radical left leaning govt.

"I strongly believe the Greens are the leading left-wing party in Parliament," she said. "I believe radical change, at this point, is necessary to confront the challenges of our time - tinkering will no longer do that."

Fighting words! Is Hipkins going to put her in her place or is he so PC, impotent and woke that he will roll over and let the Greens shoplift the leader of the opposition? Hipkins needs to step up!

Go Chloe!

 

[Lord Gnome of Waiheke]

So much ignorance posted in this thread, I want to weep for our future.

 

[Inruin]

Just so we're clear:
Do I think that big tobacco have directly influenced policy in this current government? Yes I do, that is my opinion
Do I think that the two main parties on the right have a disproportionate level of donations and funding from source of the right and far right persuasion? Yes I do - here's 2022 from the electoral commission and I'd bet that 2023 is far more disproportionate - https://elections.nz/democracy-in-n...ew-zealand/party-donations-and-loans-by-year/

Do I think that that funding is provided with the expectation of affecting and distorting policy towards those donors and their organisations? Yes I do, that is my opinion

Do I think that the left is immune from this somehow? No I don't, but there is far more transparency within that political spectrum at the moment

Do I think that right wing so called thinktanks and right wing networks have far too much influence and impact on our democracy to the detriment of all New Zealanders? Yes I do, 100% that is my opinion. And there's much evidence around 40 years of neoliberalism to back that up

One of the main group of talking heads in this country on mainstream and right networks (nzme, the platform) is the New Zealand Initiative. They are a rebranded Business Roundtable, which was a huge and corrupting influence in the 80s and 90s, particularly with the implementation of neoliberal policies, rampant deregulation and asset sales.

Another group that gets readily unquestionably quoted is the Taxpayers Union - also members of the Atlas network, as outlined elsewhere in these pages.

The New Zealand Initiative is also part of the Atlas Network - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Initiative

These groups do not have New Zealand's best interests at heart. They never have, and they never will. That is also my opinion. And it's pretty fact based too.

Gee that's a long way of saying it's just your opinion and there is no current proof. And then throwing out barbs at others as if it's fact.

In my opinion (there you go mate). There is influence on all parties, whether you want to extend that to being corruption is up to you. In terms of international rankings we are seen as one of the top least corrupt countries in the world. So given that I tend to lean toward the least incompetent bunch which given the last 15 or so years happens to be the 'right' side.

Even the article on the treasury report you posted and cherry picked the CGT (while seemingly ignoring the rest) from was damning of the last government:

It said, while New Zealand’s debt was low by international standards, it had risen significantly over recent years and current spending exceeded revenues.

“A substantial fiscal consolidation is required to bring revenue and expenses back into balance and support fiscal sustainability, while also supporting monetary policy to bring inflation back into the target range.”

It said the Government should prioritise a return to surplus in the 2026/2027 year at the latest.
That would mean constraining new spending, reducing current spending and increasing revenue, it said.
That should happen alongside measures to lift growth, resilience and living standards.
It said New Zealand had recovered strongly from Covid-19 but the Government had incurred debt at a faster rate than most other countries.

“Between 2019 and 2023, the IMF estimates that New Zealand’s government net debt increased by 18% of GDP, compared with a 4% increase for the average advanced economy. The fiscal impacts of the North Island weather events has added to debt in 2023 and will continue to do so over coming years.”


So, all the things this coalition us trying to do and you are going on previously about National cutting this and that, they are bad etc etc. the treasury has made it quite clear it's needed. The previous lot have done very few good things, made it it demonstrably worse for nearly everyone and significantly worse for the poor and absolutely no ideas on how to move forward out of it. Yet the current government is being attacked for a 'war on the poor'? Unfortunately tough decisions need to be made. It looks to me like at least this government is making them.

As far as the shop lifter taking responsibility for her actions. When did she do that? Certainly not until it was clear she had to or was made to. And even then it was with the mental health proviso added to it.

 

[Inruin]

Go Chloe!

I wish she would

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

you can't even conflate Labour/Maori and to be honest I'm not even going there, as I really don't know where you've coming from.

Here’s one that will test you:

Rich farming businesses get $23k subsidy each - just because they are Maori and indigenous. On what basis can you agree with this pork barrelled politics? Labours stain needs weeding out of MPI - where’s ACT and NZ First when you need them:

‘Māori Kiwifruit Growers have received nearly $1 million in government funding to help increase their exports of the lucrative fruit.

The advocacy group with 42 members, mostly in Bay of Plenty, will receive $975,000 from the Ministry for Primary Industries' Sustainable Food and Fibre Futures Fund over the next three years’

Māori Kiwifruit Growers gets nearly $1m boost to help increase exports

The funds are to also help the growers with re-affirming Aotearoa's connections with indigenous peoples around the world.

www.rnz.co.nz

 

[Noitall]

Here’s one that will test you:

Rich farming businesses get $23k subsidy each - just because they are Maori and indigenous. On what basis can you agree with this pork barrelled politics? Labours stain needs weeding out of MPI - where’s ACT and NZ First when you need them:

‘Māori Kiwifruit Growers have received nearly $1 million in government funding to help increase their exports of the lucrative fruit.

The advocacy group with 42 members, mostly in Bay of Plenty, will receive $975,000 from the Ministry for Primary Industries' Sustainable Food and Fibre Futures Fund over the next three years’

Māori Kiwifruit Growers gets nearly $1m boost to help increase exports

The funds are to also help the growers with re-affirming Aotearoa's connections with indigenous peoples around the world.

www.rnz.co.nz

Government approves $26 million grant extension for farmers and growers

As farmers and growers continue their work to re-establish their businesses in the wake of Cyclone Gabrielle, the Government is providing a boost of $26 million to meet the need in the recovery efforts.

www.beehive.govt.nz

Here’s an article with farmers and growers having $26 million allocated, think this just falls under that with some of the money disbursed to this group you’re referencing. Sounds like quite a positive article the one you posted.

 

[Wellington Taniwha]

Just so we're clear:
Do I think that big tobacco have directly influenced policy in this current government? Yes I do, that is my opinion
Do I think that the two main parties on the right have a disproportionate level of donations and funding from source of the right and far right persuasion? Yes I do - here's 2022 from the electoral commission and I'd bet that 2023 is far more disproportionate - https://elections.nz/democracy-in-n...ew-zealand/party-donations-and-loans-by-year/

Do I think that that funding is provided with the expectation of affecting and distorting policy towards those donors and their organisations? Yes I do, that is my opinion

Do I think that the left is immune from this somehow? No I don't, but there is far more transparency within that political spectrum at the moment

Do I think that right wing so called thinktanks and right wing networks have far too much influence and impact on our democracy to the detriment of all New Zealanders? Yes I do, 100% that is my opinion. And there's much evidence around 40 years of neoliberalism to back that up

One of the main group of talking heads in this country on mainstream and right networks (nzme, the platform) is the New Zealand Initiative. They are a rebranded Business Roundtable, which was a huge and corrupting influence in the 80s and 90s, particularly with the implementation of neoliberal policies, rampant deregulation and asset sales.

Another group that gets readily unquestionably quoted is the Taxpayers Union - also members of the Atlas network, as outlined elsewhere in these pages.

The New Zealand Initiative is also part of the Atlas Network - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Initiative

These groups do not have New Zealand's best interests at heart. They never have, and they never will. That is also my opinion. And it's pretty fact based too.

100%. Required reading.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Gee that's a long way of saying it's just your opinion and there is no current proof. And then throwing out barbs at others as if it's fact.

In my opinion (there you go mate). There is influence on all parties, whether you want to extend that to being corruption is up to you. In terms of international rankings we are seen as one of the top least corrupt countries in the world. So given that I tend to lean toward the least incompetent bunch which given the last 15 or so years happens to be the 'right' side.

Even the article on the treasury report you posted and cherry picked the CGT (while seemingly ignoring the rest) from was damning of the last government:

It said, while New Zealand’s debt was low by international standards, it had risen significantly over recent years and current spending exceeded revenues.

“A substantial fiscal consolidation is required to bring revenue and expenses back into balance and support fiscal sustainability, while also supporting monetary policy to bring inflation back into the target range.”

It said the Government should prioritise a return to surplus in the 2026/2027 year at the latest.
That would mean constraining new spending, reducing current spending and increasing revenue, it said.
That should happen alongside measures to lift growth, resilience and living standards.
It said New Zealand had recovered strongly from Covid-19 but the Government had incurred debt at a faster rate than most other countries.

“Between 2019 and 2023, the IMF estimates that New Zealand’s government net debt increased by 18% of GDP, compared with a 4% increase for the average advanced economy. The fiscal impacts of the North Island weather events has added to debt in 2023 and will continue to do so over coming years.”


So, all the things this coalition us trying to do and you are going on previously about National cutting this and that, they are bad etc etc. the treasury has made it quite clear it's needed. The previous lot have done very few good things, made it it demonstrably worse for nearly everyone and significantly worse for the poor and absolutely no ideas on how to move forward out of it. Yet the current government is being attacked for a 'war on the poor'? Unfortunately tough decisions need to be made. It looks to me like at least this government is making them.

As far as the shop lifter taking responsibility for her actions. When did she do that? Certainly not until it was clear she had to or was made to. And even then it was with the mental health proviso added to it.

Like I said, you do you

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Government approves $26 million grant extension for farmers and growers

As farmers and growers continue their work to re-establish their businesses in the wake of Cyclone Gabrielle, the Government is providing a boost of $26 million to meet the need in the recovery efforts.

www.beehive.govt.nz

Here’s an article with farmers and growers having $26 million allocated, think this just falls under that with some of the money disbursed to this group you’re referencing. Sounds like quite a positive article the one you posted.

You think farmers decimated and wiped out by a cyclone is in anyway similar to thriving, rich farmers wanting to grow their business on huge amounts of free govt cash simply because they are Maori?

The decimated farmers get less because some of it’s going to these freeloaders wanting a free ride to make even more money?

Us and them. Pork barrel politics.

Maybe I’m being harsh… it’s not like the govts broke, our schools, hospitals and roads are falling apart apart, etc. We’ve got heaps of money to give away for rich Maori business owners pet projects…