Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[Mr. Brownstone]

Labour have been active in investing in reactivation of coastal shipping.
4/5 shipping companies are now moving boxes between many ports of nz.
Many of these are empty and need repositioning as the balance of freight is not even in different parts of the country.
This will take some of the heavy traffic of our roads.
Coastal shipping was not encouraged by a previous governments..
Any guess's??

Transhipping volume is in decline, peaked a few years ago.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Labour have been active in investing in reactivation of coastal shipping.
4/5 shipping companies are now moving boxes between many ports of nz.
Many of these are empty and need repositioning as the balance of freight is not even in different parts of the country.
This will take some of the heavy traffic of our roads.
Coastal shipping was not encouraged by a previous governments..
Any guess's??

As for who encouraged what, if Labour truly believed in coastal shipping then why have they stood in the way of Tauranga’s container wharf extension?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

As for who encouraged what, if Labour truly believed in coastal shipping then why have they stood in the way of Tauranga’s container wharf extension?

Split loyalties there between two competing special interest groups.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Split loyalties there between two competing special interest groups.

Labour were too scared of local iwi. To suggest they were proactive in supporting New Zealand’s freight network is pure fantasy.

 

[Worried2Death]

The hell are you dinosaurs talking about, solar powered bicycles are the future of freight, thousands of them.

 

[Worried2Death]

Shouldn’t the Wellington - Lyttelton sea route be reinstated as most freight will travel further south than Picton

Is Port Lyttelton still equipped for major inter-island freight lines?

 

[BabylonPink]

I liked your post because I think we have similar goals and ambitions, we just see different ways to get there.

My view is that there has never been more opportunity, freedoms or individual wealth, we live longer and healthier with less world wide poverty than at any time in human history.

And that is off the back of capitalism, democracy and neoliberal politics with great scientists, capitalists, business people and entrepreneurs, taking society to great places. Those people shape our society and we’re just along for the ride!

There always a lot of buts and what abouts… try to see the beautiful forest and don’t get to caught up on the individual trees.

Hopefully there are forests left.
You know as shit as a peasents life was in the middle ages, you had a fuckload of rights and religious holidays... like a third of the year or something insane.
Technology's great , but are people happier , or are things like suicide and mental illness running rampant?
Are larger communities unhealthy for human society?


To quote grandmaster flash
" pushed that girl into a train, sewed her arm on gave her a chance again. Stabbed that man right in the heart, gave him a transplant for a brand new start. Can't walk through the park cuz it's crazy after dark, keep my hand on my gun cyz they got me on the run. Feel like an outlaw broke my last last straw living on a see-saw."

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Hopefully there are forests left.
You know as shit as a peasents life was in the middle ages, you had a fuckload of rights and religious holidays... like a third of the year or something insane.
Technology's great , but are people happier , or are things like suicide and mental illness running rampant?
Are larger communities unhealthy for human society?


To quote grandmaster flash
" pushed that girl into a train, sewed her arm on gave her a chance again. Stabbed that man right in the heart, gave him a transplant for a brand new start. Can't walk through the park cuz it's crazy after dark, keep my hand on my gun cyz they got me on the run. Feel like an outlaw broke my last last straw living on a see-saw."

‘When the Treaty was signed in 1840 Maori average life expectancy of around 28–30 years was low. By 1891 the estimated life expectancy of Māori men was 25 and that of women was just 23.’

Life expectancy in 2019 for Māori males was 73.4 years and 77.1 years for Māori females.

Pre-European health

Healthy people In pre-European times, Māori were tall and muscular, even by today’s standards. Their average life expectancy of around 28–30 years seems low. But when European explorer James Cook arrived in New Zealand, the populations of both France and Spain had a life...

teara.govt.nz

 

[miket12]

When you order the vessel, don’t you know it’s specifications so you can plan around the berthing requirements?

Or does it just turn up and we see what way the trains go on and work something out if it doesn’t fit?

Maybe we need Mike to do the plans.

No thanks from me…. I wouldn‘t want to have anything to do with the cluster that’s happening down there. I’ve successfully avoided working on public projects like these. Ever noticed how the more public and controversial a project is, the more likely it is to win an Architectural Award… it never seems to be based on the merits of the design but to give legitimacy to bad design. The more the public dislike a project the more likely it is too win.

While I haven’t seen anything of the design of the terminals, I do think there was (from the limited information made available to the public) a very big problem in the initial brief given to the designers and engineers regarding the resilience of the project. The Building Act and Building Code says that buildings/structures like these terminals need to last for 50 years. The problem with the brief the designers are working to is that it wanted the terminals to last 100 years. In order to look at cost saving (in order to see if that is more palatable to the new government) they’ve reduced that to eighty years.

The problem with that is not the aesthetics of project (the form or bits you can see) but the function of it (how it works and, particularly in this case, the structure and durability of it). To go for a functional aspect required for the durability of a project to last 50 years as opposed to 80 years (let alone the original 100 years) takes the cost up significantly.

Especially when you consider the life of the ferries would probably be less than 50 years. Who is to say that ferries built then will suit the terminals they want built now? With replacement ferries being a generation or two or even three on from the Korean ones currently on order, we would most likely have to replace the terminals then anyway.

Why aren’t we being clever and build infrastructure that is likely to be replaced to match the life of the new ferries? We could still get the new ferries and terminals but at a significant cost saving.

The previous government‘s philosophy of “more money fixes everything” didn‘t work without accountability.

But the new government has made a mistake too, in my opinion. Instead of pulling the plug entirely, they should have told KiwiRail not to proceed with anymore design or construction work until a review of the cost savings of reducing the resiliency of the terminals was down to match the projected life of the ferries.

But scrapping a project seems without reviewing it seems to fit within their MO….. like SmokeFree, gun control, etc.

 

[Rick O’Shay]

Is Port Lyttelton still equipped for major inter-island freight lines?

I think the roll on roll off ramp may still be there but not a lot else. Been nearly 50 years since the last overnight run, think it was the Rangatira. and of course the Wahine going down in 1968 didn't help matters.

Had a few good trips down to Christchurch on the Rangi though. Waste of time having a cabin, was just a big piss up all the way.

 

[John Nick]

As for who encouraged what, if Labour truly believed in coastal shipping then why have they stood in the way of Tauranga’s container wharf extension?

As for who encouraged what, if Labour truly believed in coastal shipping then why have they stood in the way of Tauranga’s container wharf extension?

Its not political .The hold up is they are trying to get Iwi consent & thats proving difficult.
Dec.13th they finally got the consent approved but only for stage 1.(285m of extra birthage)
Stage 2 still waiting for consent.( approx. 500M) as I remember
In 2021 there was 3 submissions received. Tauranga Airport in support.
2 X Iwi against (Shane Jones was annoyed by this).
The original proposal goes a long way back to when Nick Smith was in Parliament (iirc).
The upshot is its been held up for several years but looks almost certainly to eventuate.
So just a complete waste of time & money .And productivity ( thats for Wiz).What for.Sweet F All.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Its not political .The hold up is they are trying to get Iwi consent & thats proving difficult.

Labour did absolutely nothing to resolve the issue and there were political reasons behind that.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Its not political .The hold up is they are trying to get Iwi consent & thats proving difficult.

That’s the iwi playing politics.

They have been unreasonable knowing they have political power to push for anything and everything. Want $100m spent including a new $18m marae health centre to somehow mitigate the damage

It’s reasons like this that there has been a push back and swing to the opposite political extreme and grown the ACT and NZ First vote.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Port baffled by proposed $100m mitigation claim from local iwi

Ngai Te Rangi one of several iwi contesting Port of Tauranga's plans.

www.nzherald.co.nz

 

[Wellington Taniwha]

Picton will need to close its wharves in 2026 if it doesn't get urgent attention.

Weren’t they looking at a new ferry terminal at cape Campbell? Would shave a lot of time off the journey to chch. Also those big ferries were potentially too big for the sounds.

 

[Rick O’Shay]

Weren’t they looking at a new ferry terminal at cape Campbell? Would shave a lot of time off the journey to chch. Also those big ferries were potentially too big for the sounds.

The size of the new units is definitely a problem yet to be disclosed.

Their wash will be another issue in the sounds as it was many years ago. 40m longer and 6m wider with double the gross tonnage of the old ferries (50000t) means there will need to be very substantial infrastructure where ever they berth

 

[kos]

The size of the new units is definitely a problem yet to be disclosed.

Their wash will be another issue in the sounds as it was many years ago. 40m longer and 6m wider with double the gross tonnage of the old ferries (50000t) means there will need to be very substantial infrastructure where ever they berth

I have been thinking about comments by the Nats opposing rail ferries

The rail ferries are I would think quicker and easier to load and cheaper than
Using a roll on roll off container vessel.
One shunt locomotive can do the work of multiple tug trailer units and forklifts land and ship based
And I would think rail ferries are v quick to load and unload
Using a standard container ship using container cranes to lift containers on and off is expensive - I have numbers in my head from the 90 s and even then it was substantial $ cost

I am interested to hear from others why negativity exists towards rail ferries
More expensive up front maybe
But to my mind day to day week to week month to month year to year operational costs in loading unloading are much lower and speedier in time.

So upfront cost high
20 plus years of operational costs low

 

[kos]

The size of the new units is definitely a problem yet to be disclosed.

Their wash will be another issue in the sounds as it was many years ago. 40m longer and 6m wider with double the gross tonnage of the old ferries (50000t) means there will need to be very substantial infrastructure where ever they berth

I have been thinking about comments by the Nats opposing rail ferries

The rail ferries are I would think quicker and easier to load and cheaper than
Using a roll on roll off container vessel.
One shunt locomotive can do the work of multiple tug trailer units and forklifts land and ship based
And I would think rail ferries are v quick to load and unload
Using a standard container ship using container cranes to lift containers on and off is expensive - I have numbers in my head from the 90 s and even then it was substantial $ cost

I am interested to hear from others why negativity exists towards rail ferries
More expensive up front maybe
But to my mind day to day week to week month to month year to year operational costs in loading unloading are much lower and speedier in time.

So upfront cost high
20 plus years of operational costs lo

 

[John Nick]

I have been thinking about comments by the Nats opposing rail ferries

The rail ferries are I would think quicker and easier to load and cheaper than
Using a roll on roll off container vessel.
One shunt locomotive can do the work of multiple tug trailer units and forklifts land and ship based
And I would think rail ferries are v quick to load and unload
Using a standard container ship using container cranes to lift containers on and off is expensive - I have numbers in my head from the 90 s and even then it was substantial $ cost

I am interested to hear from others why negativity exists towards rail ferries
More expensive up front maybe
But to my mind day to day week to week month to month year to year operational costs in loading unloading are much lower and speedier in time.

So upfront cost high
20 plus years of operational costs lo

Throw in quicker turn arounds could mean an extra crossing or two or more every week.Got to be a good thing.

 

[kos]

Throw in quicker turn arounds could mean an extra crossing or two or more every week.Got to be a good thing.

Prob more John
That’s what I find hard to fathom
Fixated on the upfront cost less attention to the life cost
So more sailings per week equals more revenue and lower cost per freight unit
And faster transit times
Hmmmm

 

[John Nick]

Prob more John
That’s what I find hard to fathom
Fixated on the upfront cost less attention to the life cost
So more sailings per week equals more revenue and lower cost per freight unit
And faster transit times
Hmmmm

And never going to get any cheaper than now.
Hugely important infrastructure as it's a continuation of SH1 joining North and South Islands