Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[Juno]

Indeed.

I think we all understood NZ has changed when a bunch of nutters started wearing tin foil hats outside Parliament and shitting on the grass, followed by a mass attack on the Police and fire dept live on NZ TV, and that stuff was just another layer on the David Grays.

One of the few things that we have going for us as a country is we are (soon to be were) putting peoples lives first over rich arseholes wanting to go to a gun range and play Rambo while getting kick backs from the US Military industrial complex's private arms sales division...the NRA...the guns for the people purveyors of mass murder for profit.

Act are selling us off to the US.

Incidentally that movie out of the blue is the most accurate depiction of being in a shooting that there is in my experience. I was rocked after watching it, the emotional part they captured in the people cowering and the guilt of the cop is all real and I feel really sorry for that cop.

The end scene where the Armed offenders squad smoking a cigarette while Gray is on the ground writhing is what we did at work after a massive fight, spark up and just drag in deep and say nothing, a group of silent men, letting each other find their balance again, no one breaking the silence.

In reality the AOS did not stand around smoking, and they resented that scene, but that actually does happen in bad situations eh, the first thing smokers do is pull out fags and have a deep drag.

I usually watch excellent movies again years later, I cannot watch that one, it is too accurate in every scene.

NZ movies do NZ well.
The smoking scene may not have been totally accurate (it probably was imo) but symbolicly, you're right...its what we all do, take a moment however we do it to try to comprehend what just happened.

 

[Inruin]

I don’t support allowing assault rifles again but just this year we had an attack in Auckland CBD.

A non licensed person with an illegally gained gun. Not an assault rifle but could have been…

Same as the smoking debate or putting less people in prison, these sort of ‘stop it and the problem will go away’ laws don’t get to the root of the problem.

To add to this. I think that is why it is so important to be addressing the issues like mental health (particularly with our youth)., substance abuse and the damage it does(particularly to young developing brains), education and giving people an opportunity to better themselves and have a sense of contribution to society, being tough on crime and enforcing consequences, etc etc. There are many more issues, but you are right in that we also need to address underlying issues and not just rely on firearms legislation.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

I think we are on the right track currently. You have to wonder what certain situations would have been like if we hadn't cracked down as we had after the Christchurch Mosque attacks. (I also like how we have kept his 'infamy' to a minimum by not using his name). How bad would that downtown Auckland shooting have been if he had been armed more heavily than what he was. How bad would the retail crime currently be with more prevalent firearms available? It's actually not asking very much of gun owners in return for the benefit of being able to own one or more of them. Be licensed, register the weapon, keep it locked up in a safe place. Not particularly onerous and obviously the responsible thing to be doing. I also can't think of a legitimate reason for a member of the public to use automatic or even semi-automatic guns

I think this is a no brainer and has a huge majority of support in the country. Oppose the suggested changes and let your MP know about it.

As I said I don’t support bringing back the weapons.

I think we need to focus on our economy and cost of living, education, making houses affordable, better mental health services, giving people a purpose in life, goals and ambitions. Stop all the barriers that frustrate people, etc.

Your never going to stop all the the nut jobs but we don’t want to be creating them…

 

[dean]

NZ movies do NZ well.
The smoking scene may not have been totally accurate (it probably was imo) but symbolicly, you're right...its what we all do, take a moment however we do it to try to comprehend what just happened.

It's not what I did. I found a young person close to me dead. My immediate duty was to find his Mum and break the terrible news. No time for a smoke or anything else.

 

[sup42]

It's not what I did. I found a young person close to me dead. My immediate duty was to find his Mum and break the terrible news. No time for a smoke or anything else.

That is bloody awful and I get why you would not stop and have a fag in that situation.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

As I said I don’t support bringing back the weapons.

I think we need to focus on our economy and cost of living, education, making houses affordable, better mental health services, giving people a purpose in life, goals and ambitions. Stop all the barriers that frustrate people, etc.

Your never going to stop all the the nut jobs but we don’t want to be creating them…

Linked to this I was reading about the huge rise in the sovereign citizens movement since covid, world wide. Some of the shootings in Australia are linked to these people. The courts are getting clogged up with people that are opting out of the system.

Record people turning away from politics, voting or supporting the major parties.

Tied into this we have an inflation and homelessness crisis that’s dropping people out the bottom of the system. Out of control costs added for basic essentials (food, petrol taxes, dog registration costs, boat ramp fees, rampant rates, etc). A lot of govt changes over our lives (banning this or that) and straws were breaking camels backs. It happened to fast, with to many changes at a volatile time.

Most keep up but the ramp up in crime, poverty and mental health issues out there shows society was broken and things like prioritising the climate, redoing the health system, social engineering, etc needed to pause or happen slower.

 

[sup42]

Those advocating more support at risk are the same people that voted for the economics first, middle upper class parties.

That is rich.

People are on different planets in here, at risk increases with the reduction of social supports that right wing govts deliver.

How is better education going to put a fkng meal in your stomach and stop your sibling for dying from toxic mold in shitty rental or state accommodation, or make you too ashamed to go to school because you do not have the right school uniform?

Lets talk about your feelings?

 

[Juno]

It's not what I did. I found a young person close to me dead. My immediate duty was to find his Mum and break the terrible news. No time for a smoke or anything else.

Mate, I don't mean immediately, it may have been portrayed that way in the film (limited minutes to portray something) to show that at a point in time there is a moment when you do, you have to, (however you do it) stop, regather & try to understand something beyond your experience. Your body, your psyche, and shock, demands it.
In the film it was used to emphasise the horror against the mundane, and everything inbetween.
Re your actions, we all need people that act while the rest of us are a blithering mess. Fight or flight is real & to continue to act and think (become hyper vigilant etc) is how some people are. Good on you mate.

 

[dean]

Those advocating more support at risk are the same people that voted for the economics first, middle upper class parties.

That is rich.

People are on different planets in here, at risk increases with the reduction of social supports that right wing govts deliver.

How is better education going to put a fkng meal in your stomach and stop your sibling for dying from toxic mold in shitty rental or state accommodation, or make you too ashamed to go to school because you do not have the right school uniform?

Lets talk about your feelings?

Fark off.

Better education provides the opportunity to put food on the table, buy a house and reach your potential. It is one of the pillars of humanity.
Throwing money via welfare has been a major factor in why we are where we are now. It has failed generations, especially Maori and has caused massive social problems that were probably never considered when the decision was made to throw money at the original problem.
Govt can provide some basic needs but the individual must take the steps to do the best they can with their lives and without education, as you say, they are farked.
I regret not getting an education now. It has restricted me in so many ways and it saddens me to see young people and their elders placing no value on it.

 

[sup42]

Better education provides the opportunity to put food on the table, buy a house and reach your potential. It is one of the pillars of humanity.
Throwing money via welfare has been a major factor in why we are where we are now. It has failed generations, especially Maori and has caused massive social problems that were probably never considered when the decision was made to throw money at the original problem.
Govt can provide some basic needs but the individual must take the steps to do the best they can with their lives and without education, as you say, they are farked.
I regret not getting an education now. It has restricted me in so many ways and it saddens me to see young people and their elders placing no value on it.

The problem includes access.

It is far easier to access services in NZ to get yourself out of the muck if you have connections. This is a white country, white people have the connections, the networks, the assets to be able to sit back and type about why Maori should get off their arses.

That will change in future, thanks to the return of Maori assets to their legal owners and the billion dollar corporations that IWI are growing.

I should have clarified I agree.

I agree with those talking about education in here per se.

But I also remember a really bright Raro best friend I had growing up who stopped going to school because his mother could not afford his uniform.

I had similar problems.

We were homeless and living in a tent under Muldoons regime, solo mum, bullied by. an angry hateful Social welfare officer who took a dislike to my mother.

A Doctor threatened them with the media which is how we got a state house.

Things are worse for families right now.

It is not the kids with no food and clothings fault Mum and Dad have booze Meth or gambling mental illnesses.

 

[dean]

The problem includes access.

It is far easier to access services in NZ to get yourself out of the muck if you have connections. This is a white country, white people have the connections, the networks, the assets to be able to sit back and type about why Maori should get off their arses.

That will change in future, thanks to the return of Maori assets to their legal owners and the billion dollar corporations that IWI are growing.

I should have clarified I agree.

I agree with those talking about education in here per se.

But I also remember a really bright Raro best friend I had growing up who stopped going to school because his mother could not afford his uniform.

I had similar problems.

We were homeless and living in a tent under Muldoons regime, solo mum, bullied by social an angry hateful Social welfare officer who took a dislike to my mother.

A Doctor threatened them with the media which is how we got a state house.

Things are worse for families right now.

It is not the kids with no food and clothings fault Mum and Dad have booze Meth or gambling mental illnesses.

Totally agree with you.
Even though you were homeless for a time as a kid and poor, somehow your Mum or Dad instilled the value of education in you, or, you had the insight and the intelligence to see this yourself because you are an educated man and from what I understand from your posts, you have passed this on to your kids.
I had a roof over my head as a kid but was not raised by my parents. I had it tough, childhood was day to day survival. I was always hungry too. Only had lunch on Mondays. I learnt to work because I had to work as a kid and at least this did turn me into a hard worker once I got rebellion out of my system. But I missed the education thing and with it so many opportunities.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

I often wonder about nature vs nurture in policies.

If our family and upbringing and experiences drive us to a political place or if it’s something that without those experiences we would naturally align with?

 

[sup42]

I often wonder about nature vs nurture in policies.

If our family and upbringing and experiences drive us to a political place or if it’s something that without those experiences we would naturally align with?

There is no either or with those two poles. Despite what the two fields of biology and psychology tell us, the reason it is an open ongoing discussion is you cannot answer the question with only half of the two models.

This is why nature vs nurture will be studied forever with never an either or conclusion, because they are dynamic, one can affect the other.

The answer is always both on a continuum depending on a lot of factors.

A dependent child will gravitate towards the Nuturing guidance and following the parents inclinations.

An Independent child will eventually be just that, an individual thinker.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

There is no either or with those two poles. Despite what the two fields of biology and psychology tell us, the reason it is an open ongoing discussion is you cannot answer the question with only half of the two models.

This is why nature vs nurture will be studied forever with never an either or conclusion, because they are dynamic, one can affect the other.

The answer is always both on a continuum depending on a lot of factors.

A dependent child will gravitate towards the Nuturing guidance and following the parents inclinations.

An Independent child will eventually be just that, an individual thinker.

I agree.

But even independent thinkers are influenced by their experience?

My parents voted a certain way all their life changed when they retired.

 

[Noitall]

I often wonder about nature vs nurture in policies.

If our family and upbringing and experiences drive us to a political place or if it’s something that without those experiences we would naturally align with?

The nature vs nurture scenario was precisely why I was agreeing with what has been an initiative by the police in the last couple of years where the police get around the family of the troubled youth committing these crimes to try and understand a bit more of why this is occurring. There’s been a big soft on crime sentiment under the previous government but steps like this are going to have the biggest positive outcomes in time. If these kids feel like nobody gives a shit about them, how can we expect them to be functioning members of society. Love isn’t dictated by poverty and it’s something that someone who has had a “normal” upbringing can’t even comprehend.

 

[Noitall]

I agree.

But even independent thinkers are influenced by their experience?

My parents voted a certain way all their life changed when they retired.

Did they go NZ first when they retired?

 

[Noitall]

Not sure if anyone watched q and a this morning but was a really informative watch by a doctor in mental health disenfranchised with the state of where it’s at and walked away. Really enjoy the two shows, with the other being newshub nation on Saturday morning. Really hope they continue as there’s no bias and they speak of the pressing issues pacific wide.

 

[sup42]

I agree.

But even independent thinkers are influenced by their experience?

My parents voted a certain way all their life changed when they retired.

Identical twins have shown that when raised apart, the twin raised separately still shows strong inherited traits from their parents.

However the same study proved that there were differences in key areas which relate to experience and environment.

I will stop there, you either accept you are trying to split Suns from Stars or continue to try to answer a dynamic thing with mono thinking.

 

[sup42]

Oppose the suggested changes and let your MP know about it.

or dont vote for cunts.

 

[Noitall]

or dont vote for cunts.

Wrong thread but you seen much of that respiratory thing ripping through china? Biden made mention in america yesterday about concerns.