Sports 🏉 Rugby

Does Sanzar still exist? Super rugby is a dead product, especially since the Boks went elsewhere. Spectator numbers haven't been great for a long long time and the product is getting to be predictable in terms of it will be a NZ franchise that wins the thing
Look at the European Club leagues and Champions cup. Stands are usually packed. I guess the same for Japanese club sides.

Don't we'll ever see the big super or provincial crowds of the past. Too many punters gone to support the likes of us and Football.

Great to say and don't want to put the jinx on but Winnas are Grinnas
 
juju said:
I think you you're onto something there.

The years of not paying the players but taking all gate revenue instilled an arrogance with the administration that has never been shook off since they went pro.
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I think the Silverlake deal made that attitude explicit - the union players' association was deadset against it, it was voted through by the controlling regional unions anyway - really naive stuff, selling out the base like that
 
Canonball said:
I think the Silverlake deal made that attitude explicit - the union players' association was deadset against it, it was voted through by the controlling regional unions anyway - really naive stuff, selling out the base like that
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I don’t follow it but it sounded like bad news when you start taking easy foreign money who cares more about shares than the actual fundamentals
 
Rick O’Shay said:
Does Sanzar still exist? Super rugby is a dead product, especially since the Boks went elsewhere. Spectator numbers haven't been great for a long long time and the product is getting to be predictable in terms of it will be a NZ franchise that wins the thing
Look at the European Club leagues and Champions cup. Stands are usually packed. I guess the same for Japanese club sides.

Don't we'll ever see the big super or provincial crowds of the past. Too many punters gone to support the likes of us and Football.

Great to say and don't want to put the jinx on but Winnas are Grinnas
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Yes SANZAAR (Argentina in there too) still exist. The European club rugby crowds are a bit misleading, most of their grounds are sub 10k, even poor super crowds still tend to get sizeably more. However the UK clubs in particular are struggling with a number folding over the last few years.
It’s only really the French and Japanese that are paying the massive salaries and that’s mostly at the mercy of some bored billionaires plaything.

It’s a chicken and egg thing but lower ticket prices and getting accessible fta coverage is a big factor in trying to turn things around.
Ticket prices to maximise crowds has been a massive success to raising the Warriors crowds but looking at the clubs financial performances it’s not hugely profitable, however it’s doing wonders for building the clubs profile and hooking customers
 
Matiunz said:
Yes SANZAAR (Argentina in there too) still exist. The European club rugby crowds are a bit misleading, most of their grounds are sub 10k, even poor super crowds still tend to get sizeably more. However the UK clubs in particular are struggling with a number folding over the last few years.
It’s only really the French and Japanese that are paying the massive salaries and that’s mostly at the mercy of some bored billionaires plaything.

It’s a chicken and egg thing but lower ticket prices and getting accessible fta coverage is a big factor in trying to turn things around.
Ticket prices to maximise crowds has been a massive success to raising the Warriors crowds but looking at the clubs financial performances it’s not hugely profitable, however it’s doing wonders for building the clubs profile and hooking customers
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The NRL makes a profit every year whereas the NZRU loses millions every year - one has a sustainable business and the other does not.
 
CWC said:
I don’t follow it but it sounded like bad news when you start taking easy foreign money who cares more about shares than the actual fundamentals
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it's a cliche but it is very rare for a private equity partner to invest in and grow an organisation/business... interest, dividends are the driver, the assets are there to act as collateral for those returns by definition, any amount of operational or liquid capital dropped in at the start of such a deal is future extraction from the base - and the the managers at nzru have proven that they didn't know what to do with that cash so guess what's going have to be sold/devalued to cover the debt...?
 
Canonball said:
it's a cliche but it is very rare for a private equity partner to invest in and grow an organisation/business... interest, dividends are the driver, the assets are there to act as collateral for those returns by definition, any amount of operational or liquid capital dropped in at the start of such a deal is future extraction from the base - and the the managers at nzru have proven that they didn't know what to do with that cash so guess what's going have to be sold/devalued to cover the debt...?
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Fudge sounds like a death spiral
 
Canonball said:
Classic under valuation of labour's contribution to an enterprise i reckon - NRL's success in recent years is partly down to better respecting players and their rep (the RLPA) as stakeholders - simply said union has an issue with its 'productive base' - league isn't some sort of paragon in this but it does start from an assumption that these are working people, not an abstract dream or a further link in an unmolested all black chain going back to 1905
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Conversely, classic ignoring the customers and not getting the product right. A boring negative game can’t be saved by highly paid players showing more skill.

That’s led to a downward spiral of fans, viewers and money coming into the game and limited the cash available to the players.
 
Can't wait for the day that Rugby League takes over.

Dunno about you lot, but I have always believed that had we the access to the All Blacks talent pool we would dominate League...

More to the point, until we have a bigger slice of the 'two Rugby's' market we won't dominate shit.

Get it done NZRFU, finish the job, throw in the last handful of dirt....you're doing brilliantly so far!
 
Reporting negative equity of $23.7 million essentially means that if New Zealand Rugby were to "wind up" today, its total liabilities would outweigh its total assets. In the commercial world, that is a flashing red light for insolvency - the only reason that they are not already bankrupt is because Silver Lake are happy to take their $20m or so a year every year until the cash runs out.
 
Lord Gnome of Mooloolaba said:
Reporting negative equity of $23.7 million essentially means that if New Zealand Rugby were to "wind up" today, its total liabilities would outweigh its total assets. In the commercial world, that is a flashing red light for insolvency - the only reason that they are not already bankrupt is because Silver Lake are happy to take their $20m or so a year every year until the cash runs out.
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P&L, balance sheet and casflow just released by the NZRU
 

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sup42 said:
Can't wait for the day that Rugby League takes over.

Dunno about you lot, but I have always believed that had we the access to the All Blacks talent pool we would dominate League...

More to the point, until we have a bigger slice of the 'two Rugby's' market we won't dominate shit.

Get it done NZRFU, finish the job, throw in the last handful of dirt....you're doing brilliantly so far!
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That’s making the assumption that Union players just swap to league- problem being access to playing league at junior levels in particular is very poor in large portions of the country. Many of those guys aren’t growing up learning how to play the game and until that’s fixed those players won’t be coming through
 
Matiunz said:
That’s making the assumption that Union players just swap to league- problem being access to playing league at junior levels in particular is very poor in large portions of the country. Many of those guys aren’t growing up learning how to play the game and until that’s fixed those players won’t be coming through
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That said, the status quo doesn't help League as has been shown for a century.

Union will never die out completely.

It just will continue to be what it is, the less interesting sport to watch and play.
 
sup42 said:
That said, the status quo doesn't help League as has been shown for a century.

Union will never die out completely.

It just will continue to be what it is, the less interesting sport to watch and play.
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I’m still happy enough to watch both, league is the more entertaining product to watch though.
Playing wise played both and when I was younger was in the backs (midfield/fullback) in union and second row in League, playing wise wasn’t too different really
Still play Union at my advancing age (and after the natural progression into the pack in union) I now play prop and find the game play more varied and suited to my body type- wouldn’t keep up with the 10m retreats and line speed at my age but ruck defence/set play is much better suited
 
sup42 said:
That said, the status quo doesn't help League as has been shown for a century.

Union will never die out completely.

It just will continue to be what it is, the less interesting sport to watch and play.
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Grass roots level League can have a bit of an image problem that it needs to escape, where I grew up it was heavily gang influenced which turned many away
 
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