Sports 🏉 Rugby

Super Rugby was initially a brilliant competition, they had the right formula, and then messed with it when it became a you know what measuring contest within SANZAR.

The initial 5, 4, 3 structure between NZ, SA and AUS was about right in terms of markets, player base and interest.

It's actually hilarious how much it's been mismanaged since around 2005. SA wanted more teams and went through the whole court process of the Cheetahs and Southern Kings. Both ended up in URC after failing in Super Rugby and both are now dead as franchise teams at the elite level. Same in Aus, first the Force, then the Rebels. The Force they kicked out then let back in and the Rebels died after losing an astonishing $23m AUD. Invite in Japan, now gone. Invite in Argentina, gone too. Create a new NZ franchise which was never realistic.

What's left is a competition where the original franchises make up the current top 8, and the original SA teams, once they went to franchises, are the ones left in the URC. Surely that's a pretty stark realisation they messed up a good thing with all the duff, non-viable expansions.

Feels like they have two options. Either beg the South Africans to come back and run a 22 home and away game Super 12 season, or collapse the entire thing and go back to a pre-Super 12 style comp where you have, for arguments sake, the top 8 finishers in the previous season's NPC, a Fijian rep side, a Tongan rep side, a Samoan rep side, a Japanese rep side, and the 4 Australian teams in a 4x4 group stage tournament with quarter finals, semis and a final. A bit like the European Rugby Cup or Champions League in football. It could run concurrently with the NPC.

I can't see the current tournament continuing in its current form with 10 teams.
 
At the essence of the issue is people just do not care about super rugby.

Look at the difference in how much people care about the Warriors results vs the Raiders or Storm. When have we ever seen those sort of scenes in super rugby.
The constant tinkering with the rules has made the game a bore and at an administration level they fail to tell the story of the players, clubs and rivalries.

Rugby really is in the quagmire & it's pretty hard to see a way out.
 
juju said:
Look at the difference in how much people care about the Warriors results vs the Raiders or Storm. When have we ever seen those sort of scenes in super rugby.
The constant tinkering with the rules has made the game a bore and at an administration level they fail to tell the story of the players, clubs and rivalries.
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I am straying a bit off topic here but I think Vlandys is heading that way with the NRL also.
20 teams will dilute the quality of the product and the constant want to speed up the game has already started that this year.
 
Damo said:
I am straying a bit off topic here but I think Vlandys is heading that way with the NRL also.
20 teams will dilute the quality of the product and the constant want to speed up the game has already started that this year.
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That is a really valid point.

The tribalism and generational support is so baked in the momentum could be hard to slow initially.
The Tigers going well and the joy it brings their fans - when do we see that in rugby ever. That's the secret sauce rugby is missing badly,
 
Damo said:
I am straying a bit off topic here but I think Vlandys is heading that way with the NRL also.
20 teams will dilute the quality of the product and the constant want to speed up the game has already started that this year.
Click to expand...
The point is that the NRL is profitable and can, therefore, look towards expansion where's as the NZRU is going broke before our eyes and has no plan to fix it.
 
juju said:
At the essence of the issue is people just do not care about super rugby.

Look at the difference in how much people care about the Warriors results vs the Raiders or Storm. When have we ever seen those sort of scenes in super rugby.
The constant tinkering with the rules has made the game a bore and at an administration level they fail to tell the story of the players, clubs and rivalries.

Rugby really is in the quagmire & it's pretty hard to see a way out.
Click to expand...
Did you know that NZ super rugby salaries haven't increased in 10 years?

In the same time the average NRL players' earnings have jumped from AUD245k to AUD400k.
 
Lord Gnome of Mooloolaba said:
The point is that the NRL is profitable and can, therefore, look towards expansion where's as the NZRU is going broke before our eyes and has no plan to fix it.
Click to expand...
At the moment yes, but we can see there are players already in the NRL that probably shouldn't be. Add two more squads of 19 to that and who knows how diluted the product will be. The constant tinkering with the rules and the 6 again era is already turning off fans, but, yes the NRL is doing well at the moment.
 
Damo said:
At the moment yes, but we can see there are players already in the NRL that probably shouldn't be. Add two more squads of 19 to that and who knows how diluted the product will be. The constant tinkering with the rules and the 6 again era is already turning off fans, but, yes the NRL is doing well at the moment.
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The NRL is also diversifying its asset base and building a robust balance sheet.

The NZRU in contrast has about NZ$110m of liquid cash, about NZ$65m in trusts and future funds that it can't touch and no real assets. Their tv and sponsorship income is falling and they've burned through the NZ$265m of Silver Lake money in 5 years - Silver Lake's modus operandi in such situations is to move in and asset strip to get their investment and ROI back, cNZ$400m (their duty is to their shareholders, not the good of rugby in NZ).
 
Damo said:
At the moment yes, but we can see there are players already in the NRL that probably shouldn't be. Add two more squads of 19 to that and who knows how diluted the product will be. The constant tinkering with the rules and the 6 again era is already turning off fans, but, yes the NRL is doing well at the moment.
Click to expand...
As yet the tinkering isn't alienating the fans too much in the NRL. And the NRL are quite nimble in changing the rules they get wrong. Maybe not the most credible approach but it seems to be working.
Where as thats a bit of stark difference to Union that have slowed the game so much to suit slow kicking duels that seemingly promises the northern style of union.
 
Lord Gnome of Mooloolaba said:
Good article.

The most telling quote "Next week the Warriors play the Brisbane Dolphins in Wellington, the match selling out 10 days in advance. By contrast, the All Blacks have struggled to sell out the same stadium in recent years."
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Super Rugby does out rate NRL in the viewing figures - so thats the one point they do have a slight thing going for them.
 
juju said:
Super Rugby does out rate NRL in the viewing figures - so thats the one point they do have a slight thing going for them.
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Only in NZ, only in total and only on Sky - shirt sponsors are more interested in exposure on Tik Tok etc these days, and the NRL destroys Super Rugby on such platforms.

And Sky are over showing boring games in empty stadiums - the 2026 to 2030 deal is down 25% on the previous deal (and there currently nothing in place even in terms of agreement between the NZRU and RA for Super Rugby to continue after 2030).
 
juju said:
As yet the tinkering isn't alienating the fans too much in the NRL. And the NRL are quite nimble in changing the rules they get wrong. Maybe not the most credible approach but it seems to be working.
Where as thats a bit of stark difference to Union that have slowed the game so much to suit slow kicking duels that seemingly promises the northern style of union.
Click to expand...
Anecdotally speaking it has been in my circles, 6 agains a lot of the time are given for no reason, scorelines are blowing out etc. Appears to have turned from a game of chess to checkers. But the rules seem to suit our team and Webby so all good to me 😂
 
Damo said:
Anecdotally speaking it has been in my circles, 6 agains a lot of the time are given for no reason, scorelines are blowing out etc. Appears to have turned from a game of chess to checkers. But the rules seem to suit our team and Webby so all good to me 😂
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Are your friends Storm fans by chance?
It's all a really interesting discussion - amazing how rugby has fallen in 30 years really...
 
juju said:
Are your friends Storm fans by chance?
It's all a really interesting discussion - amazing how rugby has fallen in 30 years really...
Click to expand...
Mixed bag representing the whole NRL, Australians and Kiwis.
It's fallen in New Zealand and Australia, Northern Hemisphere it's still doing extremely well. That's more down to our poor administrators and their past decisions than anything
 
Damo said:
At the moment yes, but we can see there are players already in the NRL that probably shouldn't be. Add two more squads of 19 to that and who knows how diluted the product will be. The constant tinkering with the rules and the 6 again era is already turning off fans, but, yes the NRL is doing well at the moment.
Click to expand...
But do not discount the ongoing effect that the PNG club should bring - it is a country of 10 million plus people many of whom are naturally very strong and durable physically. With League as its national sport, and having the strength of lifting young men out of relative poverty, I predict PNG will begin to supply a significant ongoing stream of additional talent to the NRL. ( btw I worked there for many years and am knowledeable about it.).
 
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