First XV school fixtures have more passion and excitement than “Super “ Rugby
Super Rugby is super boring
Super Rugby is super boring
Sports 🏉 Rugby
- Thread starter Lord Gnome of Mooloolaba
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #282
The NZRU are heading towards insolvency at a rapid rate - Silver Lake will step in soon.
Super Rugby was initially a brilliant competition, they had the right formula, and then messed with it when it became a you know what measuring contest within SANZAR.
The initial 5, 4, 3 structure between NZ, SA and AUS was about right in terms of markets, player base and interest.
It's actually hilarious how much it's been mismanaged since around 2005. SA wanted more teams and went through the whole court process of the Cheetahs and Southern Kings. Both ended up in URC after failing in Super Rugby and both are now dead as franchise teams at the elite level. Same in Aus, first the Force, then the Rebels. The Force they kicked out then let back in and the Rebels died after losing an astonishing $23m AUD. Invite in Japan, now gone. Invite in Argentina, gone too. Create a new NZ franchise which was never realistic.
What's left is a competition where the original franchises make up the current top 8, and the original SA teams, once they went to franchises, are the ones left in the URC. Surely that's a pretty stark realisation they messed up a good thing with all the duff, non-viable expansions.
Feels like they have two options. Either beg the South Africans to come back and run a 22 home and away game Super 12 season, or collapse the entire thing and go back to a pre-Super 12 style comp where you have, for arguments sake, the top 8 finishers in the previous season's NPC, a Fijian rep side, a Tongan rep side, a Samoan rep side, a Japanese rep side, and the 4 Australian teams in a 4x4 group stage tournament with quarter finals, semis and a final. A bit like the European Rugby Cup or Champions League in football. It could run concurrently with the NPC.
I can't see the current tournament continuing in its current form with 10 teams.
The initial 5, 4, 3 structure between NZ, SA and AUS was about right in terms of markets, player base and interest.
It's actually hilarious how much it's been mismanaged since around 2005. SA wanted more teams and went through the whole court process of the Cheetahs and Southern Kings. Both ended up in URC after failing in Super Rugby and both are now dead as franchise teams at the elite level. Same in Aus, first the Force, then the Rebels. The Force they kicked out then let back in and the Rebels died after losing an astonishing $23m AUD. Invite in Japan, now gone. Invite in Argentina, gone too. Create a new NZ franchise which was never realistic.
What's left is a competition where the original franchises make up the current top 8, and the original SA teams, once they went to franchises, are the ones left in the URC. Surely that's a pretty stark realisation they messed up a good thing with all the duff, non-viable expansions.
Feels like they have two options. Either beg the South Africans to come back and run a 22 home and away game Super 12 season, or collapse the entire thing and go back to a pre-Super 12 style comp where you have, for arguments sake, the top 8 finishers in the previous season's NPC, a Fijian rep side, a Tongan rep side, a Samoan rep side, a Japanese rep side, and the 4 Australian teams in a 4x4 group stage tournament with quarter finals, semis and a final. A bit like the European Rugby Cup or Champions League in football. It could run concurrently with the NPC.
I can't see the current tournament continuing in its current form with 10 teams.
juju
🔥
At the essence of the issue is people just do not care about super rugby.
Look at the difference in how much people care about the Warriors results vs the Raiders or Storm. When have we ever seen those sort of scenes in super rugby.
The constant tinkering with the rules has made the game a bore and at an administration level they fail to tell the story of the players, clubs and rivalries.
Rugby really is in the quagmire & it's pretty hard to see a way out.
Look at the difference in how much people care about the Warriors results vs the Raiders or Storm. When have we ever seen those sort of scenes in super rugby.
The constant tinkering with the rules has made the game a bore and at an administration level they fail to tell the story of the players, clubs and rivalries.
Rugby really is in the quagmire & it's pretty hard to see a way out.
juju
🔥
That is a really valid point.
The tribalism and generational support is so baked in the momentum could be hard to slow initially.
The Tigers going well and the joy it brings their fans - when do we see that in rugby ever. That's the secret sauce rugby is missing badly,
- Thread starter
- #286
The average super rugby crowd this year is 12,000 - about half the average NRL crowd - And there are only 77 games in the regular season compared to 204 in the NRL.
- Thread starter
- #287
The point is that the NRL is profitable and can, therefore, look towards expansion where's as the NZRU is going broke before our eyes and has no plan to fix it.
- Thread starter
- #288
Did you know that NZ super rugby salaries haven't increased in 10 years?
In the same time the average NRL players' earnings have jumped from AUD245k to AUD400k.
- Thread starter
- #289
The NRL is also diversifying its asset base and building a robust balance sheet.
The NZRU in contrast has about NZ$110m of liquid cash, about NZ$65m in trusts and future funds that it can't touch and no real assets. Their tv and sponsorship income is falling and they've burned through the NZ$265m of Silver Lake money in 5 years - Silver Lake's modus operandi in such situations is to move in and asset strip to get their investment and ROI back, cNZ$400m (their duty is to their shareholders, not the good of rugby in NZ).
- Thread starter
- #290
Good article.
The most telling quote "Next week the Warriors play the Brisbane Dolphins in Wellington, the match selling out 10 days in advance. By contrast, the All Blacks have struggled to sell out the same stadium in recent years."
juju
🔥
As yet the tinkering isn't alienating the fans too much in the NRL. And the NRL are quite nimble in changing the rules they get wrong. Maybe not the most credible approach but it seems to be working.
Where as thats a bit of stark difference to Union that have slowed the game so much to suit slow kicking duels that seemingly promises the northern style of union.
juju
🔥
Super Rugby does out rate NRL in the viewing figures - so thats the one point they do have a slight thing going for them.
- Thread starter
- #293
Only in NZ, only in total and only on Sky - shirt sponsors are more interested in exposure on Tik Tok etc these days, and the NRL destroys Super Rugby on such platforms.
And Sky are over showing boring games in empty stadiums - the 2026 to 2030 deal is down 25% on the previous deal (and there currently nothing in place even in terms of agreement between the NZRU and RA for Super Rugby to continue after 2030).
Cces
🎯
This was a really good podcast that I assume that @Lord Gnome of Mooloolaba has listened to based on his comment about no increase in salaries.
I had never heard this point on South Africa's exit before (from 4:24):
View: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0pofsVn54CxIFHOqu6qjzA?si=dsLI9YdbRTaxmoZCAh3rVA&t=264&pi=New64uoxSX2So
I had never heard this point on South Africa's exit before (from 4:24):
View: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0pofsVn54CxIFHOqu6qjzA?si=dsLI9YdbRTaxmoZCAh3rVA&t=264&pi=New64uoxSX2So
juju
🔥
Are your friends Storm fans by chance?Anecdotally speaking it has been in my circles, 6 agains a lot of the time are given for no reason, scorelines are blowing out etc. Appears to have turned from a game of chess to checkers. But the rules seem to suit our team and Webby so all good to me
It's all a really interesting discussion - amazing how rugby has fallen in 30 years really...
Mixed bag representing the whole NRL, Australians and Kiwis.
It's fallen in New Zealand and Australia, Northern Hemisphere it's still doing extremely well. That's more down to our poor administrators and their past decisions than anything
- Thread starter
- #297
The whole period since professionalism started has been a slow motion car crash for the NZRU - the old blazer brigade were convinced that they had to control all of the game in NZ, where as in the Europe the likes of the French and English rugby unions just let the clubs pay players wages.
- Thread starter
- #298
Nah, I read it in an interview with the CEO of the New Zealand Rugby Players Association earlier in the week
- Thread starter
- #299
Maybe move the comments about the NRL expansion and 6 again rules out of the rugby thread?
I was an equal union and league fan until about 2008.
Reasons I disengaged with union and focused on league:
1 - access to players. I distinctly remember Steve Prive on Radio Sport every week around 2008. The inside knowledge, how things happen, the players thoughts on the game, etc. the access to the players and players professionalism wa slight years ahead of union.
2 - as above the media create superstar narratives around players in the NRL. In Union everyone’s equal.
3 - game day experience - league understand tv right make the money and crowd income is somewhat irrelevant in the big picture. Pricing and experience in league is superior
4 - families - league has always had games during family friendly hours to engage younger fans. With profesionalism union went all night games, short term gain, long term decline in new fans
5 - viewability of the game. Union has prioritised a beautiful games. League has focused on moments. Unions kicking, delays, nonstop scrums, etc. boring.
6 - speed of the game. We all know union is plain boring. League has identified with the HIa issues and attention span of our youth to evolve into smaller athletes. You look at players builds now and they are all chiselled whereas in the past bulk padded the body for heavier contact.
A great reputation takes years to foster and is easily lost. Unions as a game is lost and it isn’t coming back fast. It’s on a downwards spiral that’s very hard to break out of.
Reasons I disengaged with union and focused on league:
1 - access to players. I distinctly remember Steve Prive on Radio Sport every week around 2008. The inside knowledge, how things happen, the players thoughts on the game, etc. the access to the players and players professionalism wa slight years ahead of union.
2 - as above the media create superstar narratives around players in the NRL. In Union everyone’s equal.
3 - game day experience - league understand tv right make the money and crowd income is somewhat irrelevant in the big picture. Pricing and experience in league is superior
4 - families - league has always had games during family friendly hours to engage younger fans. With profesionalism union went all night games, short term gain, long term decline in new fans
5 - viewability of the game. Union has prioritised a beautiful games. League has focused on moments. Unions kicking, delays, nonstop scrums, etc. boring.
6 - speed of the game. We all know union is plain boring. League has identified with the HIa issues and attention span of our youth to evolve into smaller athletes. You look at players builds now and they are all chiselled whereas in the past bulk padded the body for heavier contact.
A great reputation takes years to foster and is easily lost. Unions as a game is lost and it isn’t coming back fast. It’s on a downwards spiral that’s very hard to break out of.
