Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[wizard of Tauranga]

Extreme left rabbit holes? That's a bit sad. You and wiz only back the right and far right you must be doing paid work for the act party.

Here’s the thing. I have liked and criticise policies from all parties. While I am more centre right there are policies of the right I have disliked on here. I also like some ‘centre left’’ policies. I have said on here Helen Clarkes govt is one of our best. And some of the left like Pita Sharples and Jeanette Fitzsimons I hold in high regard. Integrity and mana.

I can back any party that is economically sensible and pro social issues.

I’ve been vocal about the core govt functions of health, education, crime, etc and am pro investing heavily in these areas and having a great public service that shouldn’t be in private hands.

So the question is, do you have any balance in your political views?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Did you not read the part about me not engaging in pointless right wing circle jerks? There's enough solutions in the thousands of replies going back over the last few years.

I'm sure you can work it out.

Losing credibility mate, just barking at every car that passes?

Come on the left must have some basic solutions to make Nz great again!

Just a handful of left pro business policies to grow the economy which concerns you so much…

Entertain us on this quiet Sunday morning.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

hmmmm......come to think of it Brownstone and Wiz have been posting a LOT in tandem lately......Pop Dukezz is onto something here, they look suspiciously like the same person! I bet they're getting paid by Seymour and Atlas!!!!

It all makes sense!!!!

I don’t speed through towns thank you very much.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Let's not open the gate to US-style voter disenfranchisement

Opinion from Victoria University: Making it harder for certain groups to vote isn’t traditionally how we’ve done things in NZ. Let’s keep it that way, writes Toby Moore.

newsroom.co.nz

 

[MaybeTop8]

Conflict of interest

Simon Watts’ climate and fossil fuel hats sit uncomfortably

Comment: New gas drilling turns New Zealand away from a future of clean, cheap renewable power in pursuit of a dirty, costly fossil-fuelled past.

newsroom.co.nz

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Did you not read the part about me not engaging in pointless right wing circle jerks? There's enough solutions in the thousands of replies going back over the last few years.

I'm sure you can work it out.

How about you summarise it in one concise paragraph for the rest of us - and in your words as opposed to your splatter gun approach of posting other left winger views

 

[Inruin]

Here’s the thing. I have liked and criticise policies from all parties. While I am more centre right there are policies of the right I have disliked on here. I also like some ‘centre left’’ policies. I have said on here Helen Clarkes govt is one of our best. And some of the left like Pita Sharples and Jeanette Fitzsimons I hold in high regard. Integrity and mana.

I can back any party that is economically sensible and pro social issues.

I’ve been vocal about the core govt functions of health, education, crime, etc and am pro investing heavily in these areas and having a great public service that shouldn’t be in private hands.

So the question is, do you have any balance in your political views?

The issue you have is that top8 views labour and National as right. He seems to feel that the greens are center from what I can tell so trying to argue or debate the guy is pointless when he"s essentially dismissing what the majority of kiwis vote for and not providing any real viable solutions. No example of other countries that are his ideal that don't or haven't relied on using their natural resources to build their economy. Hell, I seem to recall Scandinavian countries used because of their tax systems but conveniently forget the rest of the make up of their economy. Or their health systems but when you point out they have a mix of public and private that are used together it gets a bit silent, because, well, you know, private is bad.

It appears to me that his views closely align to the greens if not even further left than they are, and they are left despite any attempt to try and change the narrative away from them being seen as fringe lefties. So I look at their policies and solutions which are mostly nonsense and realize it's a waste of time trying to have a rational discussion with someone whose advice now seems to be around people being stuck in each chambers. How very ironic, don't ya think?

 

[defensivebomb]

What’s his plan for how the left would improve the economy?

- Borrow and spend

Here’s how the left will improve the economy:

Borrow and spend for key infrastructure and growth

Fantastic everyone will support that.

Although, a short while or later, the definition of “key infrastructure” and rationale for “growth” will creep over time, from concrete, steel and systems to human systems and behaviour, improving people’s lives

The spending will go from “because we need a new hospital” to “because improving these people’s lives will be good for growth”

They’ll be countless business cases for projects. Not because doing business cases is good, but because the projects need a team of analysts, paid to work under the direction of a minister, to prove that the project (which is going ahead regardless) will generate $$$$ of benefits. Without the business cases, the ideas will not stack up in the slightest

Other departments will be emboldened by the success of various projects going ahead with tenuous links to infrastructure and growth, and they’ll put their hands out for their projects to be funded too. And they’ll get the funding as everyone’s fingerprints are all over approving the tenuous projects, so we’ll have another prolification of what happened during covid

And then it’ll be back to austerity when NZ works out what has happened

Honestly man, you can set your watch to this

 

[Inruin]

Here’s how the left will improve the economy:

Borrow and spend for key infrastructure and growth

Fantastic everyone will support that.

Although, a short while or later, the definition of “key infrastructure” and rationale for “growth” will creep over time, from concrete, steel and systems to human systems and behaviour, improving people’s lives

The spending will go from “because we need a new hospital” to “because improving these people’s lives will be good for growth”

They’ll be countless business cases for projects. Not because doing business cases is good, but because the projects need a team of analysts, paid to work under the direction of a minister, to prove that the project (which is going ahead regardless) will generate $$$$ of benefits. Without the business cases, the ideas will not stack up in the slightest

Other departments will be emboldened by the success of various projects going ahead with tenuous links to infrastructure and growth, and they’ll put their hands out for their projects to be funded too. And they’ll get the funding as everyone’s fingerprints are all over approving the tenuous projects, so we’ll have another prolification of what happened during covid

And then it’ll be back to austerity when NZ works out what has happened

Honestly man, you can set your watch to this

This is them. It's who they are.

By the poor, for the poor, making them poorer.

 

[MaybeTop8]

How about you summarise it in one concise paragraph for the rest of us - and in your words as opposed to your splatter gun approach of posting other left winger views

What's left wing? Only facts. Here's more fact, this government has failed tens of thousands of our citizens https://www.thepress.co.nz/nz-news/360776584/homeless-new-zealand-how-we-reached-crisis-point

 

[MaybeTop8]

The issue you have is that top8 views labour and National as right. He seems to feel that the greens are center from what I can tell so trying to argue or debate the guy is pointless when he"s essentially dismissing what the majority of kiwis vote for and not providing any real viable solutions. No example of other countries that are his ideal that don't or haven't relied on using their natural resources to build their economy. Hell, I seem to recall Scandinavian countries used because of their tax systems but conveniently forget the rest of the make up of their economy. Or their health systems but when you point out they have a mix of public and private that are used together it gets a bit silent, because, well, you know, private is bad.

It appears to me that his views closely align to the greens if not even further left than they are, and they are left despite any attempt to try and change the narrative away from them being seen as fringe lefties. So I look at their policies and solutions which are mostly nonsense and realize it's a waste of time trying to have a rational discussion with someone whose advice now seems to be around people being stuck in each chambers. How very ironic, don't ya think?

And here's the fascist bully boy stormtrooper back! Welcome!

The issue those on the right have is as you quite correctly point out, an inability to even acknowledge or say out loud neoliberalism, let alone Atlas and all of the far right umbrella which is pure fascism and madness. You lot believe National are centre, which is laughable really.

If there is no capacity to even admit that neoliberalism is the underpinning of the last 50 years, then yes, we will be poles apart.

The very system and policies you lot are all trying to entrench and retain are causing the very problems that you all feel threatened by, yet somehow, SOMEHOW no can see that.

The right have won! They're dominant everywhere and we're all fucked as a result!

Yet SOMEHOW, there's a nasty mean ol' Top8, the nasty left. Honestly? It's embarrassingly laughable.

The common intellectual foundations are fundamentally flawed on the right here and it's backed up by incessant privilege, lies and disinformation. And that's just Wiz, let alone Frank.

This piece sums up my views very well, hat tip David Slack.

How many coffees is 300 divided by 6?

Weekend freebie edition. The Prime Minister's maiden speech, and what came after it

subslack.substack.com

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

What's left wing? Only facts. Here's more fact, this government has failed tens of thousands of our citizens https://www.thepress.co.nz/nz-news/360776584/homeless-new-zealand-how-we-reached-crisis-point

You are just deflecting again. Homelessness increased under the previous government as well. Tell us your strategy - one paragraph.

 

[Inruin]

And here's the fascist bully boy stormtrooper back! Welcome!

The issue those on the right have is as you quite correctly point out, an inability to even acknowledge or say out loud neoliberalism, let alone Atlas and all of the far right umbrella which is pure fascism and madness. You lot believe National are centre, which is laughable really.

If there is no capacity to even admit that neoliberalism is the underpinning of the last 50 years, then yes, we will be poles apart.

The very system and policies you lot are all trying to entrench and retain are causing the very problems that you all feel threatened by, yet somehow, SOMEHOW no can see that.

The right have won! They're dominant everywhere and we're all fucked as a result!

Yet SOMEHOW, there's a nasty mean ol' Top8, the nasty left. Honestly? It's embarrassingly laughable.

The common intellectual foundations are fundamentally flawed on the right here and it's backed up by incessant privilege, lies and disinformation. And that's just Wiz, let alone Frank.

This piece sums up my views very well, hat tip David Slack.

How many coffees is 300 divided by 6?

Weekend freebie edition. The Prime Minister's maiden speech, and what came after it

subslack.substack.com

What utter nonsense.

It confirms what I previously posted so thank you.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Of the rich by rich for the rich

'Urgent advice': Govt considers backdown to address homelessness spike

A recent report says more people are living without shelter.

www.nzherald.co.nz

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

And here's the fascist bully boy stormtrooper back! Welcome!

The issue those on the right have is as you quite correctly point out, an inability to even acknowledge or say out loud neoliberalism, let alone Atlas and all of the far right umbrella which is pure fascism and madness. You lot believe National are centre, which is laughable really.

If there is no capacity to even admit that neoliberalism is the underpinning of the last 50 years, then yes, we will be poles apart.

The very system and policies you lot are all trying to entrench and retain are causing the very problems that you all feel threatened by, yet somehow, SOMEHOW no can see that.

The right have won! They're dominant everywhere and we're all fucked as a result!

Yet SOMEHOW, there's a nasty mean ol' Top8, the nasty left. Honestly? It's embarrassingly laughable.

The common intellectual foundations are fundamentally flawed on the right here and it's backed up by incessant privilege, lies and disinformation. And that's just Wiz, let alone Frank.

This piece sums up my views very well, hat tip David Slack.

How many coffees is 300 divided by 6?

Weekend freebie edition. The Prime Minister's maiden speech, and what came after it

subslack.substack.com

There’s no need to react like that, no one is bullying you. Stop with all the disinformation crap & give us your view on the solution.

 

[MaybeTop8]

What utter nonsense.

Kinda proves my point really.

Unless you're unhappy about being called a stormtrooper, I can change that to puppet if you want.

 

[MaybeTop8]

There’s no need to react like that, no one is bullying you. Stop with all the disinformation crap & give us your view on the solution.

Read the David Slack substack, it sums up my views nicely.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Read the David Slack substack, it sums up my views nicely.

No we are sick of you posting left wing propaganda. Tell us what you believe the solution to be, in your words.

 

[MaybeTop8]

No we are sick of you posting left wing propaganda. Tell us what you believe the solution to be, in your words.

Have done many times. And it's summed up in that post. Bye.

 

[Inruin]

Kinda proves my point really.

Unless you're unhappy about being called a stormtrooper, I can change that to puppet if you want.

Which part of what I posted was incorrect?

Do you view labour and National as right?

Do you view the greens as central?

You have used Scandinavian countries as examples but want to ignore their use of their natural resources or when it comes to health that they use a mix of public and private.

Your whole spiel in response was to name call and try and play the victim. A well known and well tried strategy of the left.

You have even admitted not reading what you link to which often is counter to what you are claiming and then accuse others of disinformation.

There isn't really anything else to say.