Player Tohu Harris

[Muddogz]

Everyone keeps stating that but can’t never justify it.

When was the last top junior we developed? Probably SJ in 2011? Probably the next two best were I-Pap and Katoa who have succeeded at other clubs.

 

[Defence]

When was the last top junior we developed? Probably SJ in 2011? Probably the next two best were I-Pap and Katoa who have succeeded at other clubs.

Shit thats damning when u think about it eh- over 10 years and I cant think of anyone.
We're all big on leka, laban and sifakula now but remember when benry, marque taylor and ikahihifo was gonna be our backrow for the next 10 years....
Hope we can get it right this time around.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

What would justify it in your mind? For example I’m pretty sure I could find articles from people like Phil Gould that describe this - would that do it?

Is there a link there, I cant read it.

As for Gould, if he is the messiah Who Cannot Be Wrong, you must agree with him over his recent comments on TMM right?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Everyone keeps stating that but can’t never justify it.

As others have said, we’ve had juniors with potential over the last 10 years, thrown them in the deep end and they never reached their potential.

I am in agreeable we need to blood talent earlier and have a lower average age for our first grade squad. It should just be a few a year surrounded by professionals and building up their confidence and stamina via bursts in first grade.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

As others have said, we’ve had juniors with potential over the last 10 years, thrown them in the deep end and they never reached their potential.

Who got "thrown in the deep end"?

 

[Fonzie]

Is there a link there, I cant read it.

As for Gould, if he is the messiah Who Cannot Be Wrong, you must agree with him over his recent comments on TMM right?

Mate I’m not trying to argue, I was just asking what if any source on that you would accept/ privilege. It seems like a hard thing to objectively establish.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Mate I’m not trying to argue, I was just asking what if any source on that you would accept/ privilege. It seems like a hard thing to objectively establish.

ANY would be a good start

 

[Cces]

Who got "thrown in the deep end"?

Hingano, Joe Vuna, Perham, Turner, Otukolo & Vailea were 20 or younger when they debuted. All got spat out fairly quick

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Hingano, Joe Vuna, Perham, Turner, Otukolo & Vailea were 20 or younger when they debuted. All got spat out fairly quick

Was that because they were rushed or because they werent any good?

 

[Ever Hopeful]

Shit thats damning when u think about it eh- over 10 years and I cant think of anyone.
We're all big on leka, laban and sifakula now but remember when benry, marque taylor and ikahihifo was gonna be our backrow for the next 10 years....
Hope we can get it right this time around.

Benry and Taylor were exciting because they seemed to be real professionals who would get stuck into the dirty stuff, but they were never dynamic. Lolohea was dynamic, but sucked at the dirty stuff (honestly one of the worst defenders I have ever seen in FG), and was tactically questionable. The Benry and Taylor attitudes were rare at the time of Hurrell and Kata etc. who didn't really have a tactical head.

The only other junior that I can remember having that dynamism was Katoa, but he was hardly home grown. He seemed like a guy who we could build around, but it didn't happen. Roache was exciting, and had potential to be dynamic and a student of the game.

We finally seem to have a crop of a few guys who have that genuine dynamism/ x factor, and more of a professional, well-schooled foundation. Have we ever had this? Sifakula and Leka are genuinely exciting for the future of this club, and I say that as someone reluctant to blow someone up early. I think they are both better that Katoa, so that is promising. The chaps behind them have the potential to seize their spot too.

We just need to get the experience and quality right for the import spots.

Yes, our junior track record has been damning, but maybe we have the infrastructure and right heads now to now be seeing positive change.

 

[Ever Hopeful]

Hingano, Joe Vuna, Perham, Turner, Otukolo & Vailea were 20 or younger when they debuted. All got spat out fairly quick

The only part of that on the club is a poor read on the attitude and builds needed.

Otukolo and Vailea's attitude were not there.
Vuna chose God, and was only ever solid
Turner is too small
Perham not skilled enough despite starting to build nicely now. Hingano was limited, though I liked him.

We have chosen to back the wrong cattle. With the builds and athleticism of the guys we are chasing now, it seems that the penny has dropped.

 

[Ever Hopeful]

I don't think we will ever be able to look at our junior programme and declare that it is working until we produce a genuine tactical half. That seems like a long way away.

 

[Damo]

100% agree.
Other teams have started young kids and they have cleaned up.
Negativity never wins

On the other hand, the Tigers have the least experienced and youngest top 30 and are dead last.

 

[Damo]

I don't think we will ever be able to look at our junior programme and declare that it is working until we produce a genuine tactical half. That seems like a long way away.

Don't think we ever will, they will stay in Union.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

We have chosen to back the wrong cattle. With the builds and athleticism of the guys we are chasing now, it seems that the penny has dropped.

We appear to have backed the wrong cattle because none have succeeded. But is that because they didn’t have the talent or the club wasn’t getting them where they needed to be?

We didn’t have the technical coaches; our playing leadership group led the red bull saga; our lower level coaches targeted size over skill.

Interesting success example: Laumape. Went onto All Blacks after leaving us. He didn’t stand out as any better or worse than Hurrell or Kata from around the same time frame. A good coach in union just got the best out of him.

 

[Inruin]

We appear to have backed the wrong cattle because none have succeeded. But is that because they didn’t have the talent or the club wasn’t getting them where they needed to be?

We didn’t have the technical coaches; our playing leadership group led the red bull saga; our lower level coaches targeted size over skill.

Interesting success example: Laumape. Went onto All Blacks after leaving us. He didn’t stand out as any better or worse than Hurrell or Kata from around the same time frame. A good coach in union just got the best out of him.

Laumape had a much better all round game IMO. He may not have stood out as much because he didn't provide the highlight reel plays like Hurrell which fans scream about but he had much better fitness, defence, footy smarts in a team going through coaches at a spectacular rate. It wasn't surprising to see he went that well in a more professional system.

 

[Ever Hopeful]

We appear to have backed the wrong cattle because none have succeeded. But is that because they didn’t have the talent or the club wasn’t getting them where they needed to be?

We didn’t have the technical coaches; our playing leadership group led the red bull saga; our lower level coaches targeted size over skill.

Interesting success example: Laumape. Went onto All Blacks after leaving us. He didn’t stand out as any better or worse than Hurrell or Kata from around the same time frame. A good coach in union just got the best out of him.

My gut is due to a lack of technical coaches, a lack of junior pathways, the massive canyon between the amount of league an Aussie experiences (playing and studying) growing up compared to a Kiwi, and backing big-arsed players who knock age group players over rather than guys with the boring foundations and a more athletic/sustainable frame.

Of course whilst the Warriors were a joke anyone good went the direction of union/Aussie at the 14-15 year old age or later

Some of these things are definitely improving, which gives hope.

Laumape had the top two inches, and was a strong carrier in the tight union traffic. He had a decent skillset without being a superstar.

He would have done well if he had stayed, but his heart was always Manawatu union.

 

[Juno]

I don't think we will ever be able to look at our junior programme and declare that it is working until we produce a genuine tactical half. That seems like a long way away.

The thing is, from what I've read & heard someone like cooper cronk was never a first choice natural half. Bellamy set him a task to learn to be one & he did that because cronk had the other attributes needed. What I'm saying is the naturals, the instinctive ones still have to be challenged and taught as much as the cronks of the world to learn the role properly and apply themselves & thats all about aptitude, attitude and commitment.
Find those guys and develop them. The once a generation half we all hope for will benefit from the same development pathway .

 

[MrFrankWhite]

The thing is, from what I've read & heard someone like cooper cronk was never a first choice natural half. Bellamy set him a task to learn to be one & he did that because cronk had the other attributes needed. What I'm saying is the naturals, the instinctive ones still have to be challenged and taught as much as the cronks of the world to learn the role properly and apply themselves & thats all about aptitude, attitude and commitment.
Find those guys and develop them. The once a generation half we all hope for will benefit from the same development pathway .

100%. Ive found this to be true across several professions

 

[jonesy101]

The thing is, from what I've read & heard someone like cooper cronk was never a first choice natural half. Bellamy set him a task to learn to be one & he did that because cronk had the other attributes needed. What I'm saying is the naturals, the instinctive ones still have to be challenged and taught as much as the cronks of the world to learn the role properly and apply themselves & thats all about aptitude, attitude and commitment.
Find those guys and develop them. The once a generation half we all hope for will benefit from the same development pathway .

Sometimes its so hard to know when and where the great halves will emerge. Using the Melbourne Storm example I thought one of Brodie Croft or Ryley Jacks would become elite halves but neither kicked on, yet look at where Jahrome Hughes came from and how much he's grown into such a force at the same club under the same coach.