General Mt Smart Stadium

[Zaggo]

Only four US cities (NYC, LA, Chicago and Houston) have a population greater than Auckland and only one (NYC) has a population greater than Sydney.... yet multiple cities have stadiums with a capacity greater than 50,000.

The US definition of a city is closer to what we'd consider to be a suburb - for example, LA is made up of a huge number of "cities" like Burbank, Santa Monica and Culver City.

Metropolitan area is a more apples with apples comparison for Auckland/Sydney, and Auckland would be about 38th in the US.

Trying to compare Auckland to the size and scale of US cities to justify a 50k seater is a non-starter.

 

[Teets]

For those interested.... the Warriors had the fourth largest average attendance last season (not including the LV games). The third (ACCOR) averaged only 20 people more each game but that included the GF.

View attachment 11890

Yeah and your average Souths/Dogs game at Accor is exactly the kind of atmosphere you don't want.

Only four US cities (NYC, LA, Chicago and Houston) have a population greater than Auckland and only one (NYC) has a population greater than Sydney.... yet multiple cities have stadiums with a capacity greater than 50,000.

Places like Detroit, Atlanta, Miami, Baltimore, Dallas all have millions of people living in their urban areas.

There's 3.6 million people in the Detroit urban area all within a hour max of the city center.

 

[miket12]

The US definition of a city is closer to what we'd consider to be a suburb - for example, LA is made up of a huge number of "cities" like Burbank, Santa Monica and Culver City.

Metropolitan area is a more apples with apples comparison for Auckland/Sydney, and Auckland would be about 38th in the US.

Trying to compare Auckland to the size and scale of US cities to justify a 50k seater is a non-starter.

38th on the list....Jacksonville Florida has a metro. population of 1.7m and Everbank Stadium is capable of holding over 60,000.
41st on the list....Raleigh, NC (metro. pop. 1.5m) - Carter Finlay Stadium - 56,000
42nd... Oklahoma City. Ok (metro. pop. 1.47m) - Gaylord Family Oklahoma Memorial Stadium - 80,000
43rd.... Louisville, Ky (metro. pop 1.37m) - L&N Federal Credit Union Stadium - 60,800
45th.... Memphis, Tn (metro. pop. 1.33m) - Simmons Bank Liberty Stadium - 58,300
46th... Salt Lake City, Ut (metro. pop. 1.26m) - Rice Eccles Stadium - 51,400
47th.... Birmingham, Al (metro. pop. 1.18m) - Protective Stadium - 47,100
50th.... Buffalo, NY (metro. pop. 1.15m) - Highmark Stadium - 71,600
52nd.... Tucson, AZ (metro. pop. 1.06m) - Arizona Stadium - 50,800
55rd... Honolulu, Hi (metro. pop. 0.98m) - Aloha Stadium (closed) - 50,000

I would keep going but I'm now getting into cities with a metro. population will under Auckland (1.8m)

 

[miket12]

Yeah and your average Souths/Dogs game at Accor is exactly the kind of atmosphere you don't want.

Right, and please find anywhere I've posted that we need a stadium of that size (80K).... what I've done is suggested a stadium of 50,000 and then shown a number of US cities of a smaller size than Auckland that have a stadium of 50K or more.

 

[Teets]

Right, and please find anywhere I've posted that we need a stadium of that size (80K).... what I've done is suggested a stadium of 50,000 and then shown a number of US cities of a smaller size than Auckland that have a stadium of 50K

When the 50th biggest city in the country still has a metro population of over 1 million people, and you have a religion like American football where 32 NFL teams and half the 134 Div 1 football teams AVERAGE between 40k -110k home attendance it probably tells you a bit about why they can justify building stadiums so big.

Our hottest regular ticket averaged 27k and still had plenty of empty seats every week.

Florida Apples and Gizzy Oranges.

 

[miket12]

When the 50th biggest city in the country still has a metro population of over 1 million people, and you have a religion like American football where 32 NFL teams and half the 134 Div 1 football teams AVERAGE between 40k -110k home attendance it probably tells you a bit about why they can justify building stadiums so big.

Our hottest regular ticket averaged 27k and still had plenty of empty seats every week.

Florida Apples and Gizzy Oranges.

With talking to a person involved with the Stadiums throughout Auckland, I asked him why, when it was "sold out", there were still empty seats. He said there weren't seats available for purchase, but a number of season ticket holders didn't show up while others preferred to stay in the lounges.

Also, as much as Warriors fans, including myself, hate Eden Park, when there is the opportunity for more fans to show up, we have. Over 38,400 (76% full) attended the game against the Eels in 2011, in the 2012 season, over 37,500 (75% full) attended the GF replay against the Sea Eagles and in 2013, over 32,700 (65% full) were at the Roosters game. A bigger stadium has led to big crowds.

BTW, the average attendance at Mt Smart for those three years... 13.9K (57% full) in 2011, 15.2K (63% full) in 2012 and 13.2K (55% full) in 2013.

 

[Zaggo]

Also, as much as Warriors fans, including myself, hate Eden Park, when there is the opportunity for more fans to show up, we have. Over 38,400 (76% full) attended the game against the Eels in 2011, in the 2012 season, over 37,500 (75% full) attended the GF replay against the Sea Eagles and in 2013, over 32,700 (65% full) were at the Roosters game. A bigger stadium has led to big crowds.

I suppose it comes down to whether you get a better atmosphere and experience from a soldout Mt Smart, or a 75% full Eden Park.

Pros and cons to each. I like the idea of a bigger stadium being available, I've just got no faith in Auckland Council not making an absolute dogs dinner of this stadium roundabout.

 

[miket12]

I suppose it comes down to whether you get a better atmosphere and experience from a soldout Mt Smart, or a 75% full Eden Park.

Pros and cons to each. I like the idea of a bigger stadium being available, I've just got no faith in Auckland Council not making an absolute dogs dinner of this stadium roundabout.

I don't either. The best position for a new stadium in Auckland is the Old Tank Farm. AC's reason to reject that was because there were already proposals to turn it into a public space. What is a Stadium if it's not a public space?

 

[miket12]

Consider the size of a Stadium in Auckland if it was to follow the same population ratio (population/stadium seating capacity) as the other provincial rugby stadiums in NZ.....



The only one that comes close to the size of the stadium to the population is AMI Park in Christchurch... the temporary home of Canterbury Rugby until the new stadium is finished. Following the ratio they've used for that new Christchurch Stadium, and a new Auckland Stadium (or revamped Eden Park) would need to have a capacity of over 82,000.... a totally ridiculous size for a Stadium in Auckland.... and from there it gets even worse.

 

[Teets]

Consider the size of a Stadium in Auckland if it was to follow the same population ratio (population/stadium seating capacity) as the other provincial rugby stadiums in NZ.....

View attachment 11898

The only one that comes close to the size of the stadium to the population is AMI Park in Christchurch... the temporary home of Canterbury Rugby until the new stadium is finished. Following the ratio they've used for that new Christchurch Stadium, and a new Auckland Stadium (or revamped Eden Park) would need to have a capacity of over 82,000.... a totally ridiculous size for a Stadium in Auckland.... and from there it gets even worse.

Which all goes to shoe tying stadium size to population is silly. By this ratio a place like NY should have a 300,00+ seat stadium.

The ability to regularly fill the stadium to capacity should be the biggest concern, otherwise it's a white elephant in waiting.

Those Warriors Eden Park numbers are interesting, like Kiwi tests there since 2010 44k and the 9s there's a pattern for RL of a decline in attendance once the novelty of playing there wears off.

38k right after a GF I thought would be way higher. Tells me 35k to 40k seater would be the biggest we'd want to go as I doubt those 30k+ numbers would've gone close to staying that high over a full season as those were all home openers when weather is nice and hopes are high.

Right now with us flying we could probably average about 30k I'd have no issue playing at a re-furbed rectangular Eden Park with a roof.

But the NZ sports fan is a fickle, bandwagon beast, today's hot ticket might not always be tommorows, so I'd tread carefully.

 

[Lord Gnome of Mooloolaba]

Only four US cities (NYC, LA, Chicago and Houston) have a population greater than Auckland and only one (NYC) has a population greater than Sydney.... yet multiple cities have stadiums with a capacity greater than 50,000.

Compare the metropolitan populations mate.

List of North American metropolitan areas by population - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Auckland is fucking tiny by comparison to most North American cities.

 

[Lord Gnome of Mooloolaba]

38th on the list....Jacksonville Florida has a metro. population of 1.7m and Everbank Stadium is capable of holding over 60,000.
41st on the list....Raleigh, NC (metro. pop. 1.5m) - Carter Finlay Stadium - 56,000
42nd... Oklahoma City. Ok (metro. pop. 1.47m) - Gaylord Family Oklahoma Memorial Stadium - 80,000
43rd.... Louisville, Ky (metro. pop 1.37m) - L&N Federal Credit Union Stadium - 60,800
45th.... Memphis, Tn (metro. pop. 1.33m) - Simmons Bank Liberty Stadium - 58,300
46th... Salt Lake City, Ut (metro. pop. 1.26m) - Rice Eccles Stadium - 51,400
47th.... Birmingham, Al (metro. pop. 1.18m) - Protective Stadium - 47,100
50th.... Buffalo, NY (metro. pop. 1.15m) - Highmark Stadium - 71,600
52nd.... Tucson, AZ (metro. pop. 1.06m) - Arizona Stadium - 50,800
55rd... Honolulu, Hi (metro. pop. 0.98m) - Aloha Stadium (closed) - 50,000

I would keep going but I'm now getting into cities with a metro. population will under Auckland (1.8m)

You are not comparing apples with apples mate.

 

[Lord Gnome of Mooloolaba]

Compare these two things;

https://www.footballgroundmap.com/list/biggest-football-stadiums-in-england

ESPON metropolitan areas in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Ignore cities that aren't in England or Wales obviously, because they play in their own Leagues so their stadiums aren't listed in the first list.

 

[Lord Gnome of Mooloolaba]

Compare these two things;

https://www.footballgroundmap.com/list/biggest-football-stadiums-in-england

ESPON metropolitan areas in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Ignore cities that aren't in England or Wales obviously, because they play in their own Leagues so their stadiums aren't listed in the first list. Also, nearly every stadium on that list is either being expanded or is in the planning stage for expansion (I.e., Anfield's capacity was increased to 64,000 seats a week or so ago with the openning of a new tier in one of the existing stands, Man City are adding 10,000 seat behind one of the goals - you can see the cranes on the TV when you watch the games).

 

[miket12]

Compare these two things;

https://www.footballgroundmap.com/list/biggest-football-stadiums-in-england

ESPON metropolitan areas in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Ignore cities that aren't in England or Wales obviously, because they play in their own Leagues so their stadiums aren't listed in the first list.

So, the closest population size is Liverpool-Birkenhead metro population of 2.2 mil, which is serviced by two parks (Anfield - 54K and Goodison Park - 36.5K) which are less than 2 miles away from each other.

Comparing Auckland's size to Liverpool and an Auckland Stadium would have a capacity of 46,000 (close to the 50K I'm suggesting) when just using Anfield. Goodison Park in Auckland would have a capacity of 31,000, which be a decent upgrade to Mt Smart to include Northern and Southern Stands.

The next one on the list, Newcastle-Sunderland, has a metro population of 1.6 mil. Just using St James Park (52.3K) and not the Stadium of Light in Sunderland and that gives an Auckland Stadium a capacity of over 61,000.

Go to the other oval ball code and the Millenium Stadium and Murrayfield Stadium throw a couple of real large spanners into the numbers. Cardiff and the South Wales Valleys metro population is only 1.1m but the Principality Stadium holds over 74,000 - that would equal a Stadium in Auckland of 125,000. Edinburgh metro population is only 780K but Murrayfield Stadium can hold over 67,000 - that would equal a Stadium in Auckland of 160,000. And, you have to remember, those are national stadiums for their "countries" (the continuing debate as to whether they are actually countries is for another day).

 

[miket12]

You are not comparing apples with apples mate.

Sorry, but those are from the metro population for US cities - not continental North American cities like the link you provided.

Here's the link I got the numbers from for cities in the US with a metro population less than Auckland.

Metropolitan statistical area - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[UpTheWahs]

tell cricket to fuck off

To where?

 

[Billyspleen75]

To where?

Colin Maiden
Victoria Park
Eden Park Outer Oval
North Harbour Stadium (if it is knocked down)
Western Springs (If it can fit beside the AFC stadium)

Literally anywhere that isnt going to be a Rugby/League/Football stadium

 

[Matiunz]

So, the closest population size is Liverpool-Birkenhead metro population of 2.2 mil, which is serviced by two parks (Anfield - 54K and Goodison Park - 36.5K) which are less than 2 miles away from each other.

Comparing Auckland's size to Liverpool and an Auckland Stadium would have a capacity of 46,000 (close to the 50K I'm suggesting) when just using Anfield. Goodison Park in Auckland would have a capacity of 31,000, which be a decent upgrade to Mt Smart to include Northern and Southern Stands.

The next one on the list, Newcastle-Sunderland, has a metro population of 1.6 mil. Just using St James Park (52.3K) and not the Stadium of Light in Sunderland and that gives an Auckland Stadium a capacity of over 61,000.

Go to the other oval ball code and the Millenium Stadium and Murrayfield Stadium throw a couple of real large spanners into the numbers. Cardiff and the South Wales Valleys metro population is only 1.1m but the Principality Stadium holds over 74,000 - that would equal a Stadium in Auckland of 125,000. Edinburgh metro population is only 780K but Murrayfield Stadium can hold over 67,000 - that would equal a Stadium in Auckland of 160,000. And, you have to remember, those are national stadiums for their "countries" (the continuing debate as to whether they are actually countries is for another day).

The big thing with the likes of European and North American cities is you can’t necessarily take just the city in isolation. These stadiums take into account the close proximity of much larger populations than Auckland does. Using one of your examples Auckland has a maximum proximity of an Audience of 5ish million whereas Liverpool has 30odd million+ in close proximity.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Okay then. Why does America have 36 soccer stadiums all with a capacity of over 50,000? No where near the following of American football.

The poorest US state has a higher GDP than NZ.

It’s not just population, most other countries also have a much higher discretionary income.