Wrighty
Contributor
Sports Black Caps
- Thread starter jonesy101
- Start date
Generally id agree about Super Smash form, but ive seen many times with established experienced players who are out of form, getting into the hit and giggle and playing their shots again actually can help them find their mojo,
Disagree about the rest, should still be enough experience and quality in that team to be considered favourites....even without Kane.
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No idea?
Wrighty
Contributor
Should is the operative word in that sentence
If the blackcaps lose to this South African side it will set back NZ cricket ten years it will be so embarassing. We can't risk that possibility. Or at least I don't think Stead will.
We should always play our best team when playing test cricket, only through bad form or injuries should new players be considered.
Wrighty
Contributor
I personally don't think he has in the last ten years
Good post
If is the operative word in that sentence.
For what its worth i agree Stead who is ultra conservative will probably run out Kane, but jesus if we cant beat them without Kane and maybe Wagner then id say we're a team in dire straits anyway.
They did that in the 80s without future proofing. When all those guys retired at once it took us a decade to recover to be a competitive test team again. Happened again once Flemings era all went around the same time - Astle, McMillan, Cairns, Richardson and co......took the best part of another decade before McCullums team established themselves.
Youd have to be blind freddy not to see this is on the cards again if we dont start developing players now.
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Wrighty
Contributor
We are not in dire straits but we are at the end of a golden era right now.
The next 5 years will not see NZ make any ICC tournament finals
And when Kane retires we will slip to 7th or 8th in the rankings
Look NZ are competing at the World Under 19 tournament this year and we will get to see what the next wave of cricketers look like. The last wave was basically Ashok and no one else.
Ravindra's year was a big one - we had Finn Allen, Ravindra and Nathan Smith and to a lesser extent Max Chu and cough cough Dale Phillips
Kane's year nearly everyone made it big
We need another bumper crop to set us up. Unfortunately kids play on play station now or whatever it is called (I am old) and cricket junior numbers are way way down.
We need to accept this will be a low 5 to ten years. We are just not strong enough to always every decade have a great team.
This is the end of an era.
You have an interesting point. Maybe we should cut and losses and start blooding new players now.
But it is really hard to make the step up to FC let alone International cricket for our youngest players.
The bowlers in Plunket shield are near genius level in their cricketing IQs. Rachin for example had all the shots at 19 but he kept getting out thought at Plunket level and falling into traps they would set him. Rachin has really had a very long apprenticeship and even then sometimes I shake his head as he does things, and this will sound dumb, but he does things I wouldn't have done as a player. Case in point trying to loft the ball to the extra cover boundary one bounce for four on the second ball he faced in the T20 match the other day. While Finn Allens opening boundary was solid risk over the on side to cow corner. Rachin doesn't have the termparament like young Kane had. Or the batting IQ that young Kane had. Where am I going with this and what the hell am I am saying? In summary if we put young blokes in they will probably fail maybe not against SA B but you don't put someone in for series then drop them because now we are playing a better opponent, and secondly buckle up for us to slide down the rankings.
Wrighty
Contributor
Players develop at FC level not at international level.
Once again, we're not talking bringing through youngsters en masse. Thats a recipe for disaster (the Warriors post 2011 mistakingly let go of experience with the belief their all conquering u/20s teams would immediately transition to first grade for example) its taken us this long to get over that,
We're talking blooding 1 or 2 ALONGSIDE and learning from the experienced core(while theres still an experienced core there) which is how succesful codes operate for ongoing success.....we've started this process in the short form game particulary when their picking teams to tour the UAE or Bangladesh and co.
But they are well behind the eight ball in Test cricket in developing players . This South African series represent an oppertunity to do that imo,.......if we dont start soon that "winter is coming" period you correctly stated is going to be looong and cold.
And there is ample time at first class to develop. Ravindra will get his time at Test cricket but he should focus on One day cricket and domestic.
I don't think bowling will be a huge issue going forward, it's the top order.
I feel like the selectors stick with young because when he drops out of the team he's not coming back. You get a stint in the team like Ravindra has already at Test cricket, it wasn't that great, so he goes back to work on his game, and that's fine.
Wrighty
Contributor
Who were your one or two by the way?
This is the team you posted
1. Devon Conway (good chance to bat him into form)
2. Tom Latham
3. Will Young/Henry Nicholls (both have been batting well in the super smash)
4, Rachin Ravindra (well overdue)
5, Darryl Mitchell (GOAT
)6. Glenn Phillips (both him and Ravindra also cover your spin option)
7. Tom Blundell (if he's batting at 7 thata good depth batting line up)
8. Kyle Jamieson (dont know what his status as far as injury is atm)
9. Tim Southee (c)
10. Matt Henry
11. Will ORourke/Ben Sears (let them rip)
It is basically our best XI but is missing Kane....who are the project players? Rachin? O'Rourke? They probably have a case to be in the team anyway. I would put both in on merit and not for development reasons.
Who in the country are these development players...Ben Sears? Sure that would be an interest9ng call. Rachin is 24 years old and he is the youngest batsman you have listed. Phillips seems young but is 27.
They are keeping tabs on Foxcroft but I don't rate him. What makes it worse is our stupid pitches they make for Plunket shield cricket. In October they seam like crazy and guys like Mitchell are unplayable. In late March for round two of Plunket they can turn a bit but you only really get those second 5 rounds in every year where the youngsters can put their hands up every year.
If I were in charge I would can the Super Smash and play more Plunket and List A. I think it is non focused to try to be the best in the world at all three formats.
Pick List A and Tests. And focus our Domestic comp on those. Then you may see some youngsters come through.
ORourke and Sears definitely.Who were your one or two by the way?
This is the team you posted
1. Devon Conway (good chance to bat him into form)
2. Tom Latham
3. Will Young/Henry Nicholls (both have been batting well in the super smash)
4, Rachin Ravindra (well overdue)
5, Darryl Mitchell (GOAT
6. Glenn Phillips (both him and Ravindra also cover your spin option)
7. Tom Blundell (if he's batting at 7 thata good depth batting line up)
8. Kyle Jamieson (dont know what his status as far as injury is atm)
9. Tim Southee (c)
10. Matt Henry
11. Will ORourke/Ben Sears (let them rip)
It is basically our best XI but is missing Kane....who are the project players? Rachin? O'Rourke? They probably have a case to be in the team anyway. I would put both in on merit and not for development reasons.
Who in the country are these development players...Ben Sears? Sure that would be an interest9ng call. Rachin is 24 years old and he is the youngest batsman you have listed. Phillips seems young but is 27.
They are keeping tabs on Foxcroft but I don't rate him. What makes it worse is our stupid pitches they make for Plunket shield cricket. In October they seam like crazy and guys like Mitchell are unplayable. In late March for round two of Plunket they can turn a bit but you only really get those second 5 rounds in every year where the youngsters can put their hands up every year.
If I were in charge I would can the Super Smash and play more Plunket and List A. I think it is non focused to try to be the best in the world at all three formats.
Pick List A and Tests. And focus our Domestic comp on those. Then you may see some youngsters come through.
Plus it would be Rachins first Test batting higher than 7 so id include him. Plus Ashok who id play at the Mount as it takes spin.
Tbh id be focussing on A Team tours more, particulary to England, Australia, and India, playing in different conditions against high class opposition would probably fast track a players development more than our domestic game atm.
Wrighty
Contributor
OK
I am happy with that answer
Sorry for putting you under the pump. You stood up well !!!!
Shit....was i supposed to be under the pump? Tell me next time
Loved my cricket since the Benson and Hedges days, happy to chat about it any chance i get.
Wrighty
Contributor
Great we have a great crew here to discuss cricket.Shit....was i supposed to be under the pump? Tell me next time
Loved my cricket since the Benson and Hedges days, happy to chat about it any chance i get.
Jeez Coney was a great slipper, mustve had buckets for hands...safe as. Fleming was brilliant as well. Was he at first slip and Astle at 2nd?
Bryan Young was another i remember being very safe (used to put the ball in his pocket after every catch).
We've been lucky with our slip cordens including recent times - Ross Taylor, Latham....even Southee's very capable in their.
.........forget anyone?
