General 2024: Will we make the top eight?

[Possum11]

Are the warriors going to make the top8 I haven't been following the comp. recently

 

[Wrighty]

It shouldn't be a reality that we are this low on the table. The Warriors were incredible at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory several times this year. We really did miss game management half who could have held his never and steered us home.

 

[Inruin]

It shouldn't be a reality that we are this low on the table. The Warriors were incredible at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory several times this year. We really did miss game management half who could have held his never and steered us home.

SJ's form has certainly dropped away but I'm really surprised that this comment seems to be getting made a lot when the biggest contributor to our decline has been our woeful defence.

 

[juju]

SJ's form has certainly dropped away but I'm really surprised that this comment seems to be getting made a lot when the biggest contributor to our decline has been our woeful defence.

I don't think that's exactly the case - if you compare the 2023 and 2024 tables both our attack and defence has dropped away similarly - the Titans massacre skews it terribly.

In saying that - we still have tonite which could get ugly.

 

[Inruin]

I don't think that's exactly the case - if you compare the 2023 and 2024 tables both our attack and defence has dropped away similarly - the Titans massacre skews it terribly.

In saying that - we still have tonite which could get ugly.

That's probably a fair comment. 20.9 for 23.7 against this year vs 24.7 for 18.5 against last year at end of round 25. So attack has dropped but not by as much as defence has conceded. -3.8 ppg for and +5.2 ppg against. Titans loss does skew it one way but the Cowboys win does too. The results are the results.

It's interesting when you run the for and against with SJ the game manager at 7 and the same with TMM at 7. Very stark in comparison and the results.

I guess my main couple of points are that SJ is or has been considered as a game managing half and a long kicking game. That hasn't translated at all to results. Also, your game builds from your defensive efforts which have been poor this year. Fix the defence first before thinking a game managing half is the problem.

And yes, I think the sharks could get very messy if we can't get on the board early and get some momentum in the game.

 

[Beastmode]

That's probably a fair comment. 20.9 for 23.7 against this year vs 24.7 for 18.5 against last year at end of round 25. So attack has dropped but not by as much as defence has conceded. -3.8 ppg for and +5.2 ppg against. Titans loss does skew it one way but the Cowboys win does too. The results are the results.

It's interesting when you run the for and against with SJ the game manager at 7 and the same with TMM at 7. Very stark in comparison and the results.

I guess my main couple of points are that SJ is or has been considered as a game managing half and a long kicking game. That hasn't translated at all to results. Also, your game builds from your defensive efforts which have been poor this year. Fix the defence first before thinking a game managing half is the problem.

And yes, I think the sharks could get very messy if we can't get on the board early and get some momentum in the game.

Fix the defence.
So fix the defence means fixing the mental attitude.
Attitude is all about desire and fortitude.
How bad you want it.
Are you willing to put your body on the line.
As we have seen this season - many aren’t willing.
How to fix attitude? No fucking idea. But I think you need one leader whose actions speak louder than words. RTS, SJ, Tohu - our so called leaders have been SHIT. Hard for the young kids to look up to these guys for inspiration when it’s these guys dropping balls and missing tackles.

Our leaders and role models for the younguns are the reason we are so shit this season. Webby needs to shake it up next year and make these guys accountable.

 

[Inruin]

Fix the defence.
So fix the defence means fixing the mental attitude.
Attitude is all about desire and fortitude.
How bad you want it.
Are you willing to put your body on the line.
As we have seen this season - many aren’t willing.
How to fix attitude? No fucking idea. But I think you need one leader whose actions speak louder than words. RTS, SJ, Tohu - our so called leaders have been SHIT. Hard for the young kids to look up to these guys for inspiration when it’s these guys dropping balls and missing tackles.

Our leaders and role models for the younguns are the reason we are so shit this season. Webby needs to shake it up next year and make these guys accountable.

Defensive structures, clear communication, a desire to keep turning up, valuing stopping a try as much as scoring one.....

I liked the leadership of Walker, TMM, Barney and throw in the swagger of some of those young forwards. Players going to make mistakes but the effort and energy needs to be there

 

[Wrighty]

Defensive structures, clear communication, a desire to keep turning up, valuing stopping a try as much as scoring one.....

I liked the leadership of Walker, TMM, Barney and throw in the swagger of some of those young forwards. Players going to make mistakes but the effort and energy needs to be there

I think to fix the defence we need to fix the offence. When we are not scoring tries we mount no scoreboard pressure which builds confidence and momentum for the other team and then they start to run the scoreboard up.
Scoreboard pressure has given them confidence to score 30 points in a match against us instead of 20.
For example if the score is 18-10 with 20 minutes left they build confidence and get a couple of cheap tries at the end. If had've executed our tries better throughout the game and it was 18-16 with 20 minutes left then the opposition would not get expansive with 20 minutes left.
Points for and against are interellated and always both improve or both decline in a season.

 

[Inruin]

I think to fix the defence we need to fix the offence. When we are not scoring tries we mount no scoreboard pressure which builds confidence and momentum for the other team and then they start to run the scoreboard up.
Scoreboard pressure has given them confidence to score 30 points in a match against us instead of 20.
For example if the score is 18-10 with 20 minutes left they build confidence and get a couple of cheap tries at the end. If had've executed our tries better throughout the game and it was 18-16 with 20 minutes left then the opposition would not get expansive with 20 minutes left.
Points for and against are interellated and always both improve or both decline in a season.

It's widely held that if your defence is working you gain confidence from that and your attack flows better.

We have scored points early and then conceded soft tries as soon as the opposition get a sniff so can't really agree with your theory that attack helps our defense. What I do agree with is exactly what you have said. What we see is teams defending well against us and then scoring points on us. Their defence is strong, which flows to their attack.

 

[John Nick]

It's widely held that if your defence is working you gain confidence from that and your attack flows better.

We have scored points early and then conceded soft tries as soon as the opposition get a sniff so can't really agree with your theory that attack helps our defense. What I do agree with is exactly what you have said. What we see is teams defending well against us and then scoring points on us. Their defence is strong, which flows to their attack.

All depends on the heart of the players.
Let in a few points and then fight back if they have any ticker.
We haven't excelled in defence or offense this year.
Good teams will do both well and overcome being behind

 

[Wrighty]

It's widely held that if your defence is working you gain confidence from that and your attack flows better.

We have scored points early and then conceded soft tries as soon as the opposition get a sniff so can't really agree with your theory that attack helps our defense. What I do agree with is exactly what you have said. What we see is teams defending well against us and then scoring points on us. Their defence is strong, which flows to their attack.

We are both correct. Defence generats offence and a good offence takes away from the other teams scoring.
Points for and against influence each other.
I choose to put the fix on offence as I think that is the lower hanging fruit out of the two. I guess as a coach, which I am not, the correct answer is that both need to improve. Certainly where I agree with you is that our wide edge defence by our wingers was porous and CNK at full back failed to diffuse various grubbers that last year he would have.

Finally to finish with a fastidious point whenever you score a try instead of failing to convert you get possession again from the restart which starves the opposition of the ball for another few minutes where they can't score.

 

[Buzz Killington]

We were the best team in defense for a few rounds into this season… the impotent attack is probably where it starts to come undone. But who fucking knows. Somethings looked so good. But instead of it all clicking together, we clunked apart.

 

[Wrighty]

We were the best team in defense for a few rounds into this season… the impotent attack is probably where it starts to come undone. But who fucking knows. Somethings looked so good. But instead of it all clicking together, we clunked apart.

I really don't get it. We had and do have top 4 cattle.

To finish 14th is just mind boggling. We are way better than some of the teams who will make the playoffs.

 

[Possum11]

I really don't get it. We had and do have top 4 cattle.

To finish 14th is just mind boggling. We are way better than some of the teams who will make the playoffs.

I put the responsibility of not making the top8 on management that includes Andrew Webster

 

[Buzz Killington]

I really don't get it. We had and do have top 4 cattle.

To finish 14th is just mind boggling. We are way better than some of the teams who will make the playoffs.

I really hope that it all comes down to just a bad run of injuries.

The roosters had a bad year with injuries in 2016 and finished way below their standards.

Everyone was saying that Webby is a genius… hopefully he is and he can fix it.

The reality of our season was our expectations exceeded our player depth and team cohesion.

 

[Stalefish540]

Remember last year when we were all stoked we got the better of the Riff assistants?

Good times...

Given the squads of both clubs, I'd say Ciraldo is certainly looking the better of the two in terms of trajectory.

 

[John Nick]

I really don't get it. We had and do have top 4 cattle.

To finish 14th is just mind boggling. We are way better than some of the teams who will make the playoffs.

The better sides have smaller quicker players
Kinis and Stranges Khan Perera etc.
We have one of that type in TT.
The game is evolving to speed and we are not keeping up

 

[Inruin]

We are both correct. Defence generats offence and a good offence takes away from the other teams scoring.
Points for and against influence each other.
I choose to put the fix on offence as I think that is the lower hanging fruit out of the two. I guess as a coach, which I am not, the correct answer is that both need to improve. Certainly where I agree with you is that our wide edge defence by our wingers was porous and CNK at full back failed to diffuse various grubbers that last year he would have.

Finally to finish with a fastidious point whenever you score a try instead of failing to convert you get possession again from the restart which starves the opposition of the ball for another few minutes where they can't score.

My only counter to fixing the offence piece is that in a number of games we scored enough points to win the game. Our defence let us down despite us scoring points. I'll side with the Andrew Johns, Cooper Cronk and just about everyone else who like them that defence is the key to everything.

They both need work but our attitude and structure towards defence really needs the most amount of work IMO.

 

[Wrighty]

I put the responsibility of not making the top8 on management that includes Andrew Webster

I don’t know what we wanted from Andrew

SJ was Dally M halfback last year
This year he was close to worst in the league amongst the starting halves
CNK a similar story
Both fell from great heights
The Correct decision on hindsight was to fire both of them down to NSW cup to find some form. But that is not a defendable decision for a second year coach to make.
What was he realistically supposed to do differently
As it was had CHT goal kicked normally we would be playing tonight for a top 8 spot rather than it being a nothing match.
It is not a Websters fault CHT choked

That said had we had Bellamy as coach he would have made those hard decisions.
And also why did he keep backing CHT to be his kicker.
All that said while the buck stops with Webster he only had so much license in his second year

 

[Boats n Hoes]

That's probably a fair comment. 20.9 for 23.7 against this year vs 24.7 for 18.5 against last year at end of round 25. So attack has dropped but not by as much as defence has conceded. -3.8 ppg for and +5.2 ppg against. Titans loss does skew it one way but the Cowboys win does too. The results are the results.

For me it felt like (and i think i made reference to this earlier in the season) we couldnt sustain pressure on teams. Either by making errors (and more importantly where and when we were making those errors) or giving away penalties, just let the pressure valve off oppositions and constantly allowing them to march up the park out of trouble.. We then inevitably compounded that by not being able to defend that error or penalty.

That "resilience" which we made our name for last season just wasnt evident this year and i cant really fathom why.

I guess perhaps the injuries (and i hate using that cause it just sounds like an excuse) had more impact than we thought. Combinations on defence is just as important as being connected on attack. Knowing and having confidence on what your outsides are going to do an edge for exanple are key......and the only way you get that is through playing a consistent line up week in week out........it felt like we never had that oppertunity the whole season.