Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[wizard of Tauranga]

Co-governance and partnership is to have a seat at tables that have a direct impact on māori wellbeing, namely, health, social, cultural and economic tables, particularly in traditional tribal areas. It is not to take over.

Why would māori get a 50% say in water rights (3 waters) plus a 17% democratic say in the other 50%?

Why is water, which falls from the sky, more important to māori than everyone else, requiring a greater than straight democratic say?

 

[MaybeTop8]

Why would māori get a 50% say in water rights (3 waters) plus a 17% democratic say in the other 50%?

Why is water, which falls from the sky, more important to māori than everyone else, requiring a greater than straight democratic say?

Why is it acceptable to sell water rights to overseas interests without consultation?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Why is it acceptable to sell water rights to overseas interests without consultation?

Well the council decides that based on National directives we’re māori are part of the democratic process.

Why should māori decide water that falls from the sky can’t be sold overseas more than anyone else?

And I don’t support overseas sale of water but I support the democratic process.

 

[Mr Drag]

Waka Kotahi NZ Transport last time I looked

So Waka need a rego?

 

[Juno]

They have a pretend māori King! Not my King! If Pakeha all left for OZ, The Tribal wars would start back up, I will be importing more recruits from the Islands to take Rodney!

Lol, another facetious comment - two in one day!
He's not a king for all māori and never has been or will be. It is pakeha that try to relegate him to that. He has his own mana as does the kingitanga for his people who see him and their movement in that way.
It would be a very foolish person who thinks our pasifika cousins would tread on the mana of māori in this country.

 

[Juno]

Why would māori get a 50% say in water rights (3 waters) plus a 17% democratic say in the other 50%?

Why is water, which falls from the sky, more important to māori than everyone else, requiring a greater than straight democratic say?

If You want to divvy up percentages, why do others currently get 100%?
And then over-allocate groundwater to predominately growers, orchardists, farmers - it all falls from the sky doesn't it? Why don't they have to get their share from there?
Overallocation by councils of groundwater is the biggest threat to nz waterways there is, and therefore the good old kiwi standard of living and recreation we all hold dear.
Aquifers plundered, wetlands drained, and the creeks, rivers, and sea poisoned with nitrates, phospates, sprays, and animal kaka - even human kaka.
You think māori did all that? Or do you think māori could have some solutions?
And before you answer, this is my area of work so I'm not talking thru a hole in my head.

A wise person once said to me how shortsighted money makes people. "māori think generations ahead in terms of taking care of the whenua and wai, not get rich now and bugger the mokopuna. But even us, we need to think more like the chinese, they plan for 2000 years ahead".

As a comparison nz councils have 25 year plans. They call them Long Term Plans, LTPS lol.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

If You want to divvy up percentages, why do others currently get 100%?
And then over-allocate groundwater to predominately growers, orchardists, farmers - it all falls from the sky doesn't it? Why don't they have to get their share from there?
Overallocation by councils of groundwater is the biggest threat to nz waterways there is, and therefore the good old kiwi standard of living and recreation we all hold dear.
Aquifers plundered, wetlands drained, and the creeks, rivers, and sea poisoned with nitrates, phospates, sprays, and animal kaka - even human kaka.
You think māori did all that? Or do you think māori could have some solutions?
And before you answer, this is my area of work so I'm not talking thru a hole in my head.

A wise person once said to me how shortsighted money makes people. "māori think generations ahead in terms of taking care of the whenua and wai, not get rich now and bugger the mokopuna. But even us, we need to think more like the chinese, they plan for 2000 years ahead".

As a comparison nz councils have 25 year plans. They call them Long Term Plans, LTPS lol.

I agree with all that but as we learn we adapt and bought in water rights and allocated based on democratic council led decisions.

When māori wiped out the Moa it was because of lack of understanding at the time.

I don’t think any race can manage resources better than any other and I don’t think any race has all the solutions. The solutions should be led by trained experts and professionals where race is irrelevant.

 

[WA Warrior]

Some good news at last!


View: https://x.com/memetazaa/status/1754592509701837228?s=20

Yuck.

 

[jonesy101]

I didn't think tik tok could get any more stupid but there you go.

 

[Inruin]

Pretty pathetic really.

I'm sure everyone has had experience with cancer of some sort, whether yourself personally or with someone you know and the effect that has on people.

Whatever your political leanings, you would have to be a complete cunt to take joy out of that news.

 

[Damo]

That doesn’t answer the question.

- Males have a different life expectancy to woman.
- Poor people have a different life outcome to rich.
- Old people are richer than young.
- Warriors supporters never get to experience sustained success.

Life isn’t equal.

Why should māori who have no disability require special support? Are they incapable? Do you condemn them to second class citizens by saying they can’t achieve without help? Why can poor immigrants come to NZ with nothing and in a generation be successful?


If māori are given different expectations the outcomes will be different. Eg If you don’t promote academic ‘western’ schooling then māori will never be successful engineers, scientists, doctors, etc in great numbers. It’s going to be interesting evaluating the Kohonga Reo generation as from what I know, they will have a lot lower outcome by western standards but maybe that’s what māori want?

But you can’t then say we need redistribution and assistance for that Kohonga Reo generation and it’s unfair because māori don’t get equal Western outcomes if your chosen a non Western path.

Can you demand cultural priority but also demand western outcomes?

You are the one who said you wanted all Kiwis to have equal outcomes? When māori are disproportionately affected negatively in the outcomes you speak of, how is that equal?

I never spoke of any special support nor expectations. I am replying to the comment you said earlier, to conflate that with an argument I never presented I don't know where all that came from.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

When have māori ever had the same outcomes as everyone else? And do you really see this resulting in that?

Equality of outcomes is facism.

 

[Juno]

So Waka need a rego?

Yeah they do, like all water vehicles they need to be seaworthy and follow the maritime rules like everyone else. And if you're being facetious (again) a waka is any type of vehicle that carries people or goods, or are you new to Aotearoa New Zealand? Or just being fa etious like I said?

 

[Inruin]

Equality of outcomes is facism.

Equality of opportunity is a worthwhile pursuit though

 

[Juno]

Equality of outcomes is facism.

I think equality of outcomes really just means equal opportunity to achieve said outcomes.
Oops, just read Inruins post.
We agree on something! Lol

 

[MrFrankWhite]

That doesn’t answer the question.

- Males have a different life expectancy to woman.
- Poor people have a different life outcome to rich.
- Old people are richer than young.
- Warriors supporters never get to experience sustained success.

Life isn’t equal.

Why should māori who have no disability require special support? Are they incapable? Do you condemn them to second class citizens by saying they can’t achieve without help? Why can poor immigrants come to NZ with nothing and in a generation be successful?


If māori are given different expectations the outcomes will be different. Eg If you don’t promote academic ‘western’ schooling then māori will never be successful engineers, scientists, doctors, etc in great numbers. It’s going to be interesting evaluating the Kohonga Reo generation as from what I know, they will have a lot lower outcome by western standards but maybe that’s what māori want?

But you can’t then say we need redistribution and assistance for that Kohonga Reo generation and it’s unfair because māori don’t get equal Western outcomes if your chosen a non Western path.

Can you demand cultural priority but also demand western outcomes?

The Rights are written in the Treaty, no more, no less.

This attempt is a thinly disuised attempt to change those rights with a political process that bypasses a Parliament Act.

māori have been engaging with this for decades and decades and the Waitangi Tribunal was set up in 1975 by an Act of Parliament to be a permanent commission of inquiry that makes recommendations on claims brought by māori relating to Crown Actions that breach the promises made in the Treaty. The recommendations aren't binding on parties (including the Crown) but in some instances legal processes can be applied to make a recommendation legally binding.

The Tribunal is presided over by up to 20 members appointed by the Governor General ( about half of which are māori, and half Pakeha) by which claims can be investigated, reach resolution of Treaty claims, and reconciliation of outstanding issues between māori and the Crown.

No, not everyone wants māori to succeed. Stop tossing out the party lines and get real.
Co-governance and partnership is to have a seat at tables that have a direct impact on māori wellbeing, namely, health, social, cultural and economic tables, particularly in traditional tribal areas. It is not to take over. What about co-anything or partnership don't you understand?

When was any govt dept in te reo only? Never.

You are both right. These aren’t opposing views.

As person of color who was raised in NZ, (not Māori or PI) I have a unique view on the Treaty.

I am well aware of the injustices and deceptions, and subsequent loss of sovereignty.

But I also am keenly aware of the western world and its standards and why those are higher than indigenous peoples place in themselves.

Wiz is right in that you have to pick the end goal and plot a path to get there.

For me it’s all starts and ends with education. The Britons were pulled from their caves and forcibly civilised and educated by the Saxons. They’ve simply had longer to learn. Over 1000yrs. Māori have had 1/4 of that. Fix education, the rest will come.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Pretty pathetic really.

I'm sure everyone has had experience with cancer of some sort, whether yourself personally or with someone you know and the effect that has on people.

Whatever your political leanings, you would have to be a complete cunt to take joy out of that news.

Normally I’d agree. But as the King of England it’s hella symbolic.

**plus he’s actively protecting his brother, who is a nonce

 

[Noitall]

As person of color who was raised in NZ, (not Māori or PI) I have a unique view on the Treaty.

Where do your ethnic roots lie?

 

[defensivebomb]

Whatever your political leanings, you would have to be a complete cunt to take joy out of that news.

Character is doing the right thing when nobody else is looking. Someone’s character is also revealed when they post anonymously on the internet

 

[Worried2Death]

Equality of outcomes is facism.

Interesting statement, can you elaborate? Enforcing equality of outcomes might be inherently fascist, but isn't it also a goal of Maoist communist ideals? What's the difference between the two ideologies in that respect?