Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[defensivebomb]

View: https://x.com/marcdaalder/status/1748114396847722856?s=20

during this cost of living crisis, I am fairly comfortable with the government halting discounts on teslas

if someone can afford a new car, they don't need a taxpayer-funded discount

 

[MaybeTop8]

Nothing more dangerous than mediocre academics and their "studies"

Here's the article, off the paywall now - https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/01/18/ending-ev-subsidies-equal-to-extra-year-of-huntly-coal-burning/

Marc Daalder is a journalist with integrity MrFrankWhite - not sure where that fits into your comment, which appears to deride academics in general. In what way do you mean?

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Here's the article, off the paywall now - https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/01/18/ending-ev-subsidies-equal-to-extra-year-of-huntly-coal-burning/

Marc Daalder is a journalist with integrity MrFrankWhite - not sure where that fits into your comment, which appears to deride academics in general. In what way do you mean?

He didn’t write the study.

This is a what im taking about, you’re posting a topic with zero research or understanding, trumpeting its authority and you don’t even know who wrote it.

“A Climate Implications of Policy Assessment, prepared in late November, estimated the cumulative impact could rise above 2.2 million tonnes. That’s nearly the equivalent of an extra year of non-stop coal burning by the Huntly Power Station.”

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Here's the article, off the paywall now - https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/01/18/ending-ev-subsidies-equal-to-extra-year-of-huntly-coal-burning/

Marc Daalder is a journalist with integrity MrFrankWhite - not sure where that fits into your comment, which appears to deride academics in general. In what way do you mean?

Also journalists have just as much slant as politicians.. Pretty easy to spot this guys politics…

 

[Bay39er]

There are 2 family homes in my area which KO purchased in Sep 2021 which apart from having the lawn cut regularly have had no other work done on them (from the outside looking in I believe that none is required)

They await their first tenant!!!

 

[miket12]

Far too soon but I just got an email from a relative saying how come a Gaza protestor got arrested outside of the National conference….. shouldn’t they be following the example of one of the group leaders and be arrested for shoplifting instead.

 

[John Nick]

Far too soon but I just got an email from a relative saying how come a Gaza protestor got arrested outside of the National conference….. shouldn’t they be following the example of one of the group leaders and be arrested for shoplifting instead.

Probably confused after reading the leaked 'Treaty Papers'

 

[miket12]

Probably confused after reading the leaked 'Treaty Papers'

I think we do need a serious discussion on the Treaty.…. but not how ACT want it…. but also not how the Greens want it. It’s too important for this to be done by Parliament where the ruling parties with enough votes in the House or Select Committee decide it and neither should a Referendum decide it.

I’d like for the Treaty to be placed within in a constitution, define it so it’s not a political football kicked around every few years, establish a way that a register can be made of private land recognised by either a Land Court or the Waitangi Tribunal so Iwi have the first rights to buy land, have the same court rule over the sale of māori land where members of an Iwi or Hapu disagree.

Have written down what co-governance actually means and how central and local governments (and companies if they choose) adopt the treaty into their organisations.

Do this in a bi-partisan way and not the current devisions where one side doesn’t even seem to want it while the other is threatening blood on the streets if their view on the treaty isn’t upheld.

I only wish we were mature enough as a country to do this and not treat it as a football to be booted around every three years.

 

[John Nick]

I think we do need a serious discussion on the Treaty.…. but not how ACT want it…. but also not how the Greens want it. It’s too important for this to be done by Parliament where the ruling parties with enough votes in the House or Select Committee decide it and neither should a Referendum decide it.

I’d like for the Treaty to be placed within in a constitution, define it so it’s not a political football kicked around every few years, establish a way that a register can be made of private land recognised by either a Land Court or the Waitangi Tribunal so Iwi have the first rights to buy land, have the same court rule over the sale of māori land where members of an Iwi or Hapu disagree.

Have written done what co-governance actually means and how central and local governments (and companies if they choose) adopt the treaty into their organisations.

Do this in a bi-partisan way and not the current devisions where one side doesn’t even seem to want it while the other is threatening blood on the streets if their view on the treaty isn’t upheld.

I only wish we were mature enough as a country to do this and not treat it as a football to be booted around every three years.

Couldnt agree more

 

[Noitall]

I only wish we were mature enough as a country to do this and not treat it as a football to be booted around every three years.

I can’t recall much public discussion around the treaty up until now in recent years, certainly co governance.

 

[Juno]

I think we do need a serious discussion on the Treaty.…. but not how ACT want it…. but also not how the Greens want it. It’s too important for this to be done by Parliament where the ruling parties with enough votes in the House or Select Committee decide it and neither should a Referendum decide it.

I’d like for the Treaty to be placed within in a constitution, define it so it’s not a political football kicked around every few years, establish a way that a register can be made of private land recognised by either a Land Court or the Waitangi Tribunal so Iwi have the first rights to buy land, have the same court rule over the sale of māori land where members of an Iwi or Hapu disagree.

Have written down what co-governance actually means and how central and local governments (and companies if they choose) adopt the treaty into their organisations.

Do this in a bi-partisan way and not the current devisions where one side doesn’t even seem to want it while the other is threatening blood on the streets if their view on the treaty isn’t upheld.

I only wish we were mature enough as a country to do this and not treat it as a football to be booted around every three years.

I will just add that a constitution is not a treaty and te tiriti can't just be 'assimilated' - its a founding document unto itself.
That is, its original form is not lost or changed (as how it has been & Seymour and others are trying to do) and from there a constitution is drawn up to address the rights of all people/ New Zealand.
Much of what you said has been happening already (except the constitution part) with local authorities across the country working to initiate co-governance contracts with māori and communities, land ownership issues through the Waitangi Tribunal, māori Land Court, through council consent processes (where they're not snuck through unnotified) especially for water issues and waahi tapu through Hertitage NZ and Archaeological expertise, and more besides. Its been a slow arduous process but gains have been made where all sides have reached consensus. And those gains are a large part of what will be affected through the 100day action list & the oiling of the squeaky wheels of those that have monetary/ pecuniary interest in seeing repeal of environmental, health & wellbeing, and māori self-determination reforms, or just plain bias.
A constitution drafted outside of politics would go a long way to bringing everyone onto the same page but it cannot relegate the original treaty to a clause somewhere just because māori are 'outnumbered' today.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

I think we do need a serious discussion on the Treaty.…. but not how ACT want it…. but also not how the Greens want it. It’s too important for this to be done by Parliament where the ruling parties with enough votes in the House or Select Committee decide it and neither should a Referendum decide it.

I’d like for the Treaty to be placed within in a constitution, define it so it’s not a political football kicked around every few years, establish a way that a register can be made of private land recognised by either a Land Court or the Waitangi Tribunal so Iwi have the first rights to buy land, have the same court rule over the sale of māori land where members of an Iwi or Hapu disagree.

Have written down what co-governance actually means and how central and local governments (and companies if they choose) adopt the treaty into their organisations.

Do this in a bi-partisan way and not the current devisions where one side doesn’t even seem to want it while the other is threatening blood on the streets if their view on the treaty isn’t upheld.

I only wish we were mature enough as a country to do this and not treat it as a football to be booted around every three years.

Genuine question, do you understand the issues of "sovereignty" and what the means in real terms?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Far too soon but I just got an email from a relative saying how come a Gaza protestor got arrested outside of the National conference….. shouldn’t they be following the example of one of the group leaders and be arrested for shoplifting instead.

Seen as it’s not to soon now…

After all the Auckland floods there’s been reports of a lot of subsidence around commercial buildings.

The industry is crying out for unemployed, experienced shoplifters to help prop us those buildings again…

 

[MaybeTop8]

Very Trumpian - setting the ground for political interference in the judiciary. Again, you know who does this? Authoritarians. Calling themselves libertarian is a joke.

Seymour wants to cull any "free speech" that isn't his "kind"

Nzers were never consulted on neoliberalism or charter schools either.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Very Trumpian - setting the ground for political interference in the judiciary. Again, you know who does this? Authoritarians. Calling themselves libertarian is a joke.

Seymour wants to cull any "free speech" that isn't his "kind"

Nzers were never consulted on neoliberalism or charter schools either.

View attachment 4928

Ummm… he wants a referendum… like the ultimate democracy.

Who should decide these things? Definitely not unelected officials as it is now.

Personally don’t think the whole thing will get anywhere. Not even to the referendum.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Ummm… he wants a referendum… like the ultimate democracy.

Who should decide these things? Definitely not unelected officials as it is now.

Personally don’t think the whole thing will get anywhere. Not even to the referendum.

Independent judiciary is one of the hallmarks of democracy Wiz.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Very Trumpian - setting the ground for political interference in the judiciary. Again, you know who does this? Authoritarians. Calling themselves libertarian is a joke.

Seymour wants to cull any "free speech" that isn't his "kind"

Nzers were never consulted on neoliberalism or charter schools either.

View attachment 4928

As someone who is pro māori but believe changes have been forced through to fast, I’m drawn to putting the brakes on and moving slower. But I don’t think a National debate is the way forward. We’re not mature enough as a nation.

But I’m after your view in the future - how does NZ look after say 50 years in regards to the treaty and race relations?

Do we want to move towards more separation as NZers (māori are a seperate race/ culture and treated differently within NZ) with different outcomes and expectations; or do we want to all be kiwis with a strong culture sitting within the country with the same outcomes and expectations?

I believe māori want to be treated seperate but also the same outcomes. I don’t know that you can have both.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Independent judiciary is one of the hallmarks of democracy Wiz.

When my wife worked in ECE there was a lot of interpretation of the treaty and expectations that was Ministry led…

Paper pushers trying to put a strong ideological stamp on young children.

 

[miket12]

I will just add that a constitution is not a treaty and te tiriti can't just be 'assimilated' - its a founding document unto itself.
That is, its original form is not lost or changed (as how it has been & Seymour and others are trying to do) and from there a constitution is drawn up to address the rights of all people/ New Zealand.
Much of what you said has been happening already (except the constitution part) with local authorities across the country working to initiate co-governance contracts with māori and communities, land ownership issues through the Waitangi Tribunal, māori Land Court, through council consent processes (where they're not snuck through unnotified) especially for water issues and waahi tapu through Hertitage NZ and Archaeological expertise, and more besides. Its been a slow arduous process but gains have been made where all sides have reached consensus. And those gains are a large part of what will be affected through the 100day action list & the oiling of the squeaky wheels of those that have monetary/ pecuniary interest in seeing repeal of environmental, health & wellbeing, and māori self-determination reforms, or just plain bias.
A constitution drafted outside of politics would go a long way to bringing everyone onto the same page but it cannot relegate the original treaty to a clause somewhere just because māori are 'outnumbered' today.

Part of the problem is that successive governments have changed the definitions as time has gone on…. especially co-governance. I’m not advocating removing the Treaty but adopting into a constitution where definitions are placed into a document which is above party politics…. to strengthen the Treaty while providing a means where it can be followed.

Part of the problem we have is language is dynamic. I don’t think that any party should dictate how the Treaty should be Interpreted and applied… it’s too important for that.

 

[miket12]

Genuine question, do you understand the issues of "sovereignty" and what the means in real terms?

And do you understand that not once have I said anything against sovereignty and that I want a discussion about how to strengthen the Treaty”s place so to preserve sovereignty. Unfortunately, there are people in NZ who would rather undermine and not strengthen it. Left to their own devices, and through a referendum, they will try to.

I’d rather we have a discussion and education on moving forward together.