marv.
ποΈ
View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DITBRniJL1b/?igsh=MWZsNXpobXVwdHl0eg==
poor old seymour, heβs had a tough week.
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Politics π³οΈ NZ Politics
- Thread starter wizard of Tauranga
- Start date
View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DITBRniJL1b/?igsh=MWZsNXpobXVwdHl0eg==
poor old seymour, heβs had a tough week.
3 strikes - death penaltyStuff
www.stuff.co.nz
Would like to see banks and government work together to really punish these sorts in the most extreme way possible. Cruel bastards
Noitall
π€
Would rather see a situation where the victim stands to gain some monetary recoup some how? The perpetrators could have any possessions of value be sold to go to the victims or if nothing of value is in their possession, perhaps a working situation where a portion of their wage goes to the victim until that value is met
wizard of Tauranga
π
- Thread starter
- #16,046
Sort of like prostitution? Just pay for the services used
Donβt know if thatβs the best for risk vs rewardβ¦
Noitall
π€
Certainly needs to be incorporated somehow into the punishment with many never having their money recuperated, or at least often a small portion of the money returned. A retiree is totally dependent on those funds to survive in their retirement, so the consequences of the theft is huge to their day to day survival depending on their financial situation. Living off their super is often unrealistic. Sometimes too the naivety shown to allow this to happen is bewildering with details passed on willinglySort of like prostitution? Just pay for the services used
Donβt know if thatβs the best for risk vs rewardβ¦
More right wing dirty politics, as always the taxpayers union is on hand
www.nzherald.co.nz
Death threats and false claims: Mayor's legal battle with ex-councillor revealed
The case has been shrouded in secrecy until today.
marv.
ποΈ
Stuff
www.stuff.co.nz
Exclusive poll reveals more Green voters feel safer seeing police than βless safeβ
The majority of Kiwis feel 'more safe' with officers on the beat.
gotta try stay relevant now slimy seymourβs whole te tiriti debacle is over and done with as the prime minister said it would be from day one i suppose.
why anyone would give her money is beyond me though.
She seems to be undecided about which foot she puts in her mouth so tries both. The Greens are in a bit of a mess aren't they.Stuff
Exclusive poll reveals more Green voters feel safer seeing police than βless safeβ
The majority of Kiwis feel 'more safe' with officers on the beat.www.nzherald.co.nz
gotta try stay relevant now slimy seymourβs whole te tiriti debacle is over and done with as the prime minister said it would be from day one i suppose.
why anyone would give her money is beyond me though.
marv.
ποΈ
absolute shitshow.
marv.
ποΈ
theyβre also doing a lot of stuff as far as international payments go sanction wise. (russia belarus and ukraine) not sure if itβll quite make the news but a lot is happening there at the moment
New Zealandβs divisive treaty principles bill has been defeated β but the fight against populism isnβt over | Chris Finlayson
The damage caused by the treaty bill to MΔori relations will take time to repair and debate over the issue may spill into next yearβs election campaign
marv.
ποΈ
not pointed at you man, more a reply to the article.New Zealandβs divisive treaty principles bill has been defeated β but the fight against populism isnβt over | Chris Finlayson
The damage caused by the treaty bill to MΔori relations will take time to repair and debate over the issue may spill into next yearβs election campaignwww.theguardian.com
the bill itself caused a lot less division than the politicians who chose to weaponise it did.
it was never going through, we knew that for the last 18 months.
those who used it to plan marches and protests etc are just as guilty as seymour is for the division.
heβs a smarmy little cunt. we all know that, but heβs making his opposition look worse and worse by the week.
greens and TPM have been so busy complaining about the nothing it was, that theyβve spent half the entire term on that, unsuccessfully freeing palestine and little else.
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I thought it was an interesting perspective ftom chris finlayson, a national mp i didnβt mind
marv.
ποΈ
View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DHh8wJwRRwH/?igsh=MTNyMzl5dTZlaGkyNw==
holy shit hahahshshsha.
between twerking and defunding police, i honestly canβt see how anyone takes our politicians seriously.
miket12
ποΈ
I find this amazingβ¦. a politician who is actually not giving the government all the credit for a reduction is the crime figuresβ¦. how refreshing!!!
But Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith was curiously cautious in an interview with the Herald last week, when he was talking up the Governmentβs success in restoring law and order.
Asked about factors independent of the Governmentβs agenda, he said: βWeβre definitely contributing to it in the effort that weβre making, but Iβm not so arrogant to think that the world revolves around what happens in the Beehive. There are broader factors.β
The drop in serious youth offending since the middle of last year, for example, started before many of the Governmentβs key policies to tackle youth crime were implemented. Youth advocates speculate that the number of serious repeat youth offenders spiked following the increased isolation and stress of the Covid pandemic, and has started reverting to the downward pre-pandemic trend.
A downward pre-pandemic trend was also apparent in general crime statistics, so reversion to this might also be a factor in the 28,000 fewer adult victims of violent crime in the year to February, compared to the year to October 2023.
This is understandably a success the Government is keen to highlight; it smashes the public service target of 20,000 fewer such victims by 2029.
Announcing it yesterday, Police Minister Mark Mitchell acknowledged the work of Corrections and police (noting a 40% increase in police foot patrolling), but also paid tribute to wider efforts including from ethnic communities and the general public.
Goldsmith didnβt mention broader factors. He said it showed βour work to restore law and order is paying offβ, citing anti-gang legislation, the return of Three Strikes, limiting sentencing discounts, and scrapping state funding for cultural reports.
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon added that the new tools for police to fight gangs were already βunearthing illegal guns and illegal drugsβ.
This was meant to be enabled through police searching the private homes of gang members under a gang patch prohibition order.
Trouble is, no such orders have been issued.
Then thereβs Three strikes 2.0, which doesnβt commence until mid-June.
And the Governmentβs sentencing reforms donβt start until the end of June.
Itβs possible - though seems unlikely - that this has played a major role in dramatically lowering the number of victims of violent crime in less than a year.
Thereβd need to be a significant number of violent offenders serving longer prison sentences due to an inability to fund cultural reports. And those longer sentences would need to have prevented enough violent offending to filter through to the number of victims.
Goldsmith seemed to acknowledge this unlikelihood last week, when he told the Herald that the message was as important as the actual policy.
βIt was a signal: rather than this culture of excuses about why you do things, actually, people have to be held personally responsible.β
He was responding to a Herald article about changes made in 2016 by the previous National-led Government, which provided stronger safeguards for community sentences. This led to the shorter and fewer prison sentences Goldsmith was blaming Labour for.
βItβs one of the contributing factors,β Goldsmith conceded.
βI think by far a very significant contributing factor is the shift in Government direction right across the whole board, which was [under Labour], we want fewer people in prison, and lo and behold there were fewer people in prison.
βVibe is important. It filters its way through. We changed the message.β
Asked about this, former District Court Judge David Harvey said he never felt any vibe from the Labour Government telling him to be more lenient in his sentencing.
βI donβt think any judge would consciously think, βOh, the Government has said weβve got to reduce prison numbers. Therefore, Iβm not going to sentence this guy to jail.β
βYou deal with the case thatβs before you on the basis of the law. You donβt deal with it on the basis of some mysterious vibe thatβs come from Wellington,β said Harvey, who retired in 2016 but returned to the bench under an acting warrant from 2018 to 2021.
Nor was it something that could be measured, he added.
βThere isnβt a vibe-o-meter at the door of the judgeβs chambers that detects the message from the politicians, and influences accordingly.
βItβs probably nice to think that judges take some notice of what politicians say, but no, the oath is to do right to all men according to the laws and usages of New Zealand, and thatβs what you do.β
And it appears to be reducing.
The number of victims of violent crime dropped from a peak of 215,000 in the year to June 2024 to 157,000 for the year to February 2025 - a 27% fall. There were 12,000 fewer victims in Auckland, while in Canterbury there were 5000 fewer victims.
These statistics are from the NZ Crime and Victims Survey, which is considered more robust because it includes the vast majority of crime that goes unreported.
But there are also downward trends in police victimisation data - a report of a crime to police, regardless of whether it leads to any charges.
The number of police victimisation reports dropped in 2024 for βacts intended to cause injuryβ (which covers assault and serious assault), and for aggravated robbery.
This followed year-on-year increases in both categories, which led to an increasing number of annual charges and convictions in court.
Luxon yesterday also mentioned a drop in ram raids, though he didnβt mention that these peaked in mid-2022, well before he took office.
In his statement yesterday, at least Goldsmith acknowledged that the numbers are inherently volatile.
But he couldnβt resist the general rule in politics, suggesting any future rise in the number of victims would be Labourβs fault.
βItβs important to remember this survey covers a 24-month period, so we will continue to see the results of Labourβs soft-on-crime approach filter through at points.β
www.nzherald.co.nz
ANALYSIS: The dramatic fall in victims of violent crime, and the impact of the Governmentβs βvibeβ rather than its policies
Itβs a general rule of politics that governments claim credit when things are going well, and blame others (especially the previous Government) when they donβt.But Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith was curiously cautious in an interview with the Herald last week, when he was talking up the Governmentβs success in restoring law and order.
Asked about factors independent of the Governmentβs agenda, he said: βWeβre definitely contributing to it in the effort that weβre making, but Iβm not so arrogant to think that the world revolves around what happens in the Beehive. There are broader factors.β
The drop in serious youth offending since the middle of last year, for example, started before many of the Governmentβs key policies to tackle youth crime were implemented. Youth advocates speculate that the number of serious repeat youth offenders spiked following the increased isolation and stress of the Covid pandemic, and has started reverting to the downward pre-pandemic trend.
A downward pre-pandemic trend was also apparent in general crime statistics, so reversion to this might also be a factor in the 28,000 fewer adult victims of violent crime in the year to February, compared to the year to October 2023.
This is understandably a success the Government is keen to highlight; it smashes the public service target of 20,000 fewer such victims by 2029.
Announcing it yesterday, Police Minister Mark Mitchell acknowledged the work of Corrections and police (noting a 40% increase in police foot patrolling), but also paid tribute to wider efforts including from ethnic communities and the general public.
Goldsmith didnβt mention broader factors. He said it showed βour work to restore law and order is paying offβ, citing anti-gang legislation, the return of Three Strikes, limiting sentencing discounts, and scrapping state funding for cultural reports.
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon added that the new tools for police to fight gangs were already βunearthing illegal guns and illegal drugsβ.
This was meant to be enabled through police searching the private homes of gang members under a gang patch prohibition order.
Trouble is, no such orders have been issued.
Then thereβs Three strikes 2.0, which doesnβt commence until mid-June.
And the Governmentβs sentencing reforms donβt start until the end of June.
βVibe is importantβ
No state funding for cultural reports, however, has been in place since March last year. The reports led to an average of a 10% sentencing discount, according to Justice Ministry analysis.Itβs possible - though seems unlikely - that this has played a major role in dramatically lowering the number of victims of violent crime in less than a year.
Thereβd need to be a significant number of violent offenders serving longer prison sentences due to an inability to fund cultural reports. And those longer sentences would need to have prevented enough violent offending to filter through to the number of victims.
Goldsmith seemed to acknowledge this unlikelihood last week, when he told the Herald that the message was as important as the actual policy.
βIt was a signal: rather than this culture of excuses about why you do things, actually, people have to be held personally responsible.β
He was responding to a Herald article about changes made in 2016 by the previous National-led Government, which provided stronger safeguards for community sentences. This led to the shorter and fewer prison sentences Goldsmith was blaming Labour for.
βItβs one of the contributing factors,β Goldsmith conceded.
βI think by far a very significant contributing factor is the shift in Government direction right across the whole board, which was [under Labour], we want fewer people in prison, and lo and behold there were fewer people in prison.
βVibe is important. It filters its way through. We changed the message.β
Asked about this, former District Court Judge David Harvey said he never felt any vibe from the Labour Government telling him to be more lenient in his sentencing.
βI donβt think any judge would consciously think, βOh, the Government has said weβve got to reduce prison numbers. Therefore, Iβm not going to sentence this guy to jail.β
βYou deal with the case thatβs before you on the basis of the law. You donβt deal with it on the basis of some mysterious vibe thatβs come from Wellington,β said Harvey, who retired in 2016 but returned to the bench under an acting warrant from 2018 to 2021.
Nor was it something that could be measured, he added.
βThere isnβt a vibe-o-meter at the door of the judgeβs chambers that detects the message from the politicians, and influences accordingly.
βItβs probably nice to think that judges take some notice of what politicians say, but no, the oath is to do right to all men according to the laws and usages of New Zealand, and thatβs what you do.β
What the data says
This doesnβt necessarily mean the Governmentβs policies - or its vibe - have had little or no impact on reducing crime.And it appears to be reducing.
The number of victims of violent crime dropped from a peak of 215,000 in the year to June 2024 to 157,000 for the year to February 2025 - a 27% fall. There were 12,000 fewer victims in Auckland, while in Canterbury there were 5000 fewer victims.
These statistics are from the NZ Crime and Victims Survey, which is considered more robust because it includes the vast majority of crime that goes unreported.
But there are also downward trends in police victimisation data - a report of a crime to police, regardless of whether it leads to any charges.
The number of police victimisation reports dropped in 2024 for βacts intended to cause injuryβ (which covers assault and serious assault), and for aggravated robbery.
This followed year-on-year increases in both categories, which led to an increasing number of annual charges and convictions in court.
Luxon yesterday also mentioned a drop in ram raids, though he didnβt mention that these peaked in mid-2022, well before he took office.
In his statement yesterday, at least Goldsmith acknowledged that the numbers are inherently volatile.
But he couldnβt resist the general rule in politics, suggesting any future rise in the number of victims would be Labourβs fault.
βItβs important to remember this survey covers a 24-month period, so we will continue to see the results of Labourβs soft-on-crime approach filter through at points.β
The drop in victims of violent crime, impact of Govtβs βvibeβ rather than its policies
Luxon has reached his target for reducing victims of violent crime four years early.
wizard of Tauranga
π
- Thread starter
- #16,060
As any teacher or parent knows, the threat of consequences has as much impact as an actual punishment.I find this amazingβ¦. a politician who is actually not giving the government all the credit for a reduction is the crime figuresβ¦. how refreshing!!!
ANALYSIS: The dramatic fall in victims of violent crime, and the impact of the Governmentβs βvibeβ rather than its policies
Itβs a general rule of politics that governments claim credit when things are going well, and blame others (especially the previous Government) when they donβt.
But Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith was curiously cautious in an interview with the Herald last week, when he was talking up the Governmentβs success in restoring law and order.
Asked about factors independent of the Governmentβs agenda, he said: βWeβre definitely contributing to it in the effort that weβre making, but Iβm not so arrogant to think that the world revolves around what happens in the Beehive. There are broader factors.β
The drop in serious youth offending since the middle of last year, for example, started before many of the Governmentβs key policies to tackle youth crime were implemented. Youth advocates speculate that the number of serious repeat youth offenders spiked following the increased isolation and stress of the Covid pandemic, and has started reverting to the downward pre-pandemic trend.
A downward pre-pandemic trend was also apparent in general crime statistics, so reversion to this might also be a factor in the 28,000 fewer adult victims of violent crime in the year to February, compared to the year to October 2023.
This is understandably a success the Government is keen to highlight; it smashes the public service target of 20,000 fewer such victims by 2029.
Announcing it yesterday, Police Minister Mark Mitchell acknowledged the work of Corrections and police (noting a 40% increase in police foot patrolling), but also paid tribute to wider efforts including from ethnic communities and the general public.
Goldsmith didnβt mention broader factors. He said it showed βour work to restore law and order is paying offβ, citing anti-gang legislation, the return of Three Strikes, limiting sentencing discounts, and scrapping state funding for cultural reports.
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon added that the new tools for police to fight gangs were already βunearthing illegal guns and illegal drugsβ.
This was meant to be enabled through police searching the private homes of gang members under a gang patch prohibition order.
Trouble is, no such orders have been issued.
Then thereβs Three strikes 2.0, which doesnβt commence until mid-June.
And the Governmentβs sentencing reforms donβt start until the end of June.
βVibe is importantβ
No state funding for cultural reports, however, has been in place since March last year. The reports led to an average of a 10% sentencing discount, according to Justice Ministry analysis.
Itβs possible - though seems unlikely - that this has played a major role in dramatically lowering the number of victims of violent crime in less than a year.
Thereβd need to be a significant number of violent offenders serving longer prison sentences due to an inability to fund cultural reports. And those longer sentences would need to have prevented enough violent offending to filter through to the number of victims.
Goldsmith seemed to acknowledge this unlikelihood last week, when he told the Herald that the message was as important as the actual policy.
βIt was a signal: rather than this culture of excuses about why you do things, actually, people have to be held personally responsible.β
He was responding to a Herald article about changes made in 2016 by the previous National-led Government, which provided stronger safeguards for community sentences. This led to the shorter and fewer prison sentences Goldsmith was blaming Labour for.
βItβs one of the contributing factors,β Goldsmith conceded.
βI think by far a very significant contributing factor is the shift in Government direction right across the whole board, which was [under Labour], we want fewer people in prison, and lo and behold there were fewer people in prison.
βVibe is important. It filters its way through. We changed the message.β
Asked about this, former District Court Judge David Harvey said he never felt any vibe from the Labour Government telling him to be more lenient in his sentencing.
βI donβt think any judge would consciously think, βOh, the Government has said weβve got to reduce prison numbers. Therefore, Iβm not going to sentence this guy to jail.β
βYou deal with the case thatβs before you on the basis of the law. You donβt deal with it on the basis of some mysterious vibe thatβs come from Wellington,β said Harvey, who retired in 2016 but returned to the bench under an acting warrant from 2018 to 2021.
Nor was it something that could be measured, he added.
βThere isnβt a vibe-o-meter at the door of the judgeβs chambers that detects the message from the politicians, and influences accordingly.
βItβs probably nice to think that judges take some notice of what politicians say, but no, the oath is to do right to all men according to the laws and usages of New Zealand, and thatβs what you do.β
What the data says
This doesnβt necessarily mean the Governmentβs policies - or its vibe - have had little or no impact on reducing crime.
And it appears to be reducing.
The number of victims of violent crime dropped from a peak of 215,000 in the year to June 2024 to 157,000 for the year to February 2025 - a 27% fall. There were 12,000 fewer victims in Auckland, while in Canterbury there were 5000 fewer victims.
These statistics are from the NZ Crime and Victims Survey, which is considered more robust because it includes the vast majority of crime that goes unreported.
View attachment 12572
But there are also downward trends in police victimisation data - a report of a crime to police, regardless of whether it leads to any charges.
The number of police victimisation reports dropped in 2024 for βacts intended to cause injuryβ (which covers assault and serious assault), and for aggravated robbery.
This followed year-on-year increases in both categories, which led to an increasing number of annual charges and convictions in court.
Luxon yesterday also mentioned a drop in ram raids, though he didnβt mention that these peaked in mid-2022, well before he took office.
View attachment 12573
In his statement yesterday, at least Goldsmith acknowledged that the numbers are inherently volatile.
But he couldnβt resist the general rule in politics, suggesting any future rise in the number of victims would be Labourβs fault.
βItβs important to remember this survey covers a 24-month period, so we will continue to see the results of Labourβs soft-on-crime approach filter through at points.β
The drop in victims of violent crime, impact of Govtβs βvibeβ rather than its policies
Luxon has reached his target for reducing victims of violent crime four years early.
Pity the Greens donβt understand this, luckily for us, our government does!
Labour were the ideal party with a soft approach during the initial stages of covid, National is the strict parent thatβs getting everything back on track again.
