Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[Noitall]

Just trying to get my head around it…

You’re digging deeper

 

[Worried2Death]

@MaybeTop8 if you owe me $10, but I say just pay me $8; have I given you $2?

Can you change two tens for my five

 

[John Nick]

Can you change two tens for my five

What about a bunch of fives.

 

[miket12]

For those who think that a land tax or CGT would help First Home Buyers in NZ, think again. Here's an article showing how FHB's in Britain are also struggling to get on to the property ladder.

How Britain killed its property market

More families are trapped by soaring housing costs or shut out of ownership altogether.

www.nzherald.co.nz

 

[Rizzah]

For those who think that a land tax or CGT would help First Home Buyers in NZ, think again. Here's an article showing how FHB's in Britain are also struggling to get on to the property ladder.

How Britain killed its property market

More families are trapped by soaring housing costs or shut out of ownership altogether.

www.nzherald.co.nz

You can read we both face similar supply problems. Esp around social housing - the UK with the sell off during 'Right to Buy' that wasn't replaced. NZ with sell offs over the last 30 years, particularly the 90s without replenishing the houses sold. Also issue around cost to build.
You could argue our housing market is even more inflated on average, because we don't have a CGT or Land Tax to curb speculative investment.
A land tax and CGT aren’t meant to fix affordability on their own. They create another revenue stream for infrastructure to help address much needed supply and reduce speculative demand.

 

[dean]

A land tax and CGT aren’t meant to fix affordability on their own. They create another revenue stream for infrastructure to help address much needed supply and reduce speculative demand.

A targeted tax at landowners and landlords who are perceived by the left as wealthy that doesn't help affordability. And you also believe the tax take would be spent on infrastructure, yeah right.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

You can read we both face similar supply problems. Esp around social housing - the UK with the sell off during 'Right to Buy' that wasn't replaced. NZ with sell offs over the last 30 years, particularly the 90s without replenishing the houses sold. Also issue around cost to build.
You could argue our housing market is even more inflated on average, because we don't have a CGT or Land Tax to curb speculative investment.
A land tax and CGT aren’t meant to fix affordability on their own. They create another revenue stream for infrastructure to help address much needed supply and reduce speculative demand.

It seems we don’t have a lack of infrastructure problem, we have too big an immigration problem.

Reality is a city population of immigrants come in every year and the existing people need to fund a new city for them.

We expect the existing population to fund the necessary infrastructure for ever more housing for new people, on ever more costly land (further from city needing even more infrastructure). The existing population is unable to keep up the funding, with a resulting lowering of living standards, missed opportunity costs, affordability issues and ever more new tax grabs rather than being self supporting.

As we continue raising the bar to pay for immigration, the poor and young pay the price in rent increases and unaffordable housing.


NZ first was right all along

 

[Rizzah]

A targeted tax at landowners and landlords who are perceived by the left as wealthy that doesn't help affordability. And you also believe the tax take would be spent on infrastructure, yeah right.

A CGT or land tax isn’t about targeting wealthy individuals; it’s about creating revenue for underfunded infrastructure to increase supply. If that revenue isn’t going to infrastructure, it’s an accountability issue, not a problem with the tax itself. Ignoring these revenue streams just keeps prices inflated. What’s your solution to fix the supply issue?

 

[Rizzah]

It seems we don’t have a lack of infrastructure problem, we have too big an immigration problem.

Reality is a city population of immigrants come in every year and the existing people need to fund a new city for them.

We expect the existing population to fund the necessary infrastructure for ever more housing for new people, on ever more costly land (further from city needing even more infrastructure). The existing population is unable to keep up the funding, with a resulting lowering of living standards, missed opportunity costs, affordability issues and ever more new tax grabs rather than being self supporting.

As we continue raising the bar to pay for immigration, the poor and young pay the price in rent increases and unaffordable housing.


NZ first was right all along

Blaming immigration is convenient. The problem isn't people coming in; it's years of underfunding infrastructure that has caused a supply issue and cost increases. New migrants contribute to the economy, but shit planning and investment are the major contributors to our cost increases. Instead of scapegoating, why not fix the funding model and build what’s required?
You keep harping on about productivity, but that only happens with real investment (public and private) and a balanced economy. Meanwhile, we’re still protecting a speculative property market that sucks up capital instead of driving real growth. Where’s the incentive to invest in sectors that actually boost productivity?

What’s your actual plan to boost supply and living standards? A deportation scheme?

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Blaming immigration is convenient. The problem isn't people coming in; it's years of underfunding infrastructure that has caused a supply issue and cost increases.

Absolute rubbish.

New migrants contribute to the economy,

Really how many Uber drivers importing their families does NZ need?

Meanwhile, we’re still protecting a speculative property market that sucks up capital instead of driving real growth.

Which is the number 1 goal of any immigrants to Aus & NZ, obtain property. High immigration effects healthcare and housing disproportionately, it negatively effects social cohesion.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Blaming immigration is convenient. The problem isn't people coming in; it's years of underfunding infrastructure that has caused a supply issue and cost increases. New migrants contribute to the economy, but shit planning and investment are the major contributors to our cost increases. Instead of scapegoating, why not fix the funding model and build what’s required?
You keep harping on about productivity, but that only happens with real investment (public and private) and a balanced economy. Meanwhile, we’re still protecting a speculative property market that sucks up capital instead of driving real growth. Where’s the incentive to invest in sectors that actually boost productivity?

What’s your actual plan to boost supply and living standards? A deportation scheme?

1 - it appears to me immigrants don’t increase the GDP per person to cover them coming here?

2 - so why even have immigration? When have we ever had a public debate about the level we want?

3 - productivity - I think our size and distance impacts productivity - or we can invest in a tunnel boring machine if we don’t have a constant supply of tunnels like overseas countries do. So should we aim for a bigger population? What’s our goal?

4 - where’s the incentive to invest to boost productivity? The most important question in this thread. labour was anti business and National is pro based on policy. I could list evidence but already don’t w that.

5 - a deportation scheme - that effectively what we’ve had the last 20 years by pushing out our young, best and brightest….

 

[MrFrankWhite]

1 - it appears to me immigrants don’t increase the GDP per person to cover them coming here?

GDP per capita has has been going backwards for years. I assume NZ is the same.

2 - so why even have immigration? When have we ever had a public debate about the level we want?

To mask the horrific effects of modern life on western birth rates. Turns out aborting 25% of all pregnancies has a negative effect on your population growth rate

 

[Noitall]

It seems we don’t have a lack of infrastructure problem, we have too big an immigration problem.

Reality is a city population of immigrants come in every year and the existing people need to fund a new city for them.

We expect the existing population to fund the necessary infrastructure for ever more housing for new people, on ever more costly land (further from city needing even more infrastructure). The existing population is unable to keep up the funding, with a resulting lowering of living standards, missed opportunity costs, affordability issues and ever more new tax grabs rather than being self supporting.

As we continue raising the bar to pay for immigration, the poor and young pay the price in rent increases and unaffordable housing.


NZ first was right all along

Back in June you were singing the praises of immigration to keep us afloat?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Back in June you were singing the praises of immigration to keep us afloat?

Was I? Not my underlying world view. What was the context?

By the way, with National raising speeds, wasn’t it great to have a long weekend with no road deaths

 

[Noitall]

Was I? Not my underlying world view. What was the context?

By the way, with National raising speeds, wasn’t it great to have a long weekend with no road deaths

wizard of Tauranga
wizard of Tauranga
Jun 21, 2024
Add bookmark
#9,159
Yesterday’s GDP data suggests the economy grew 0.2% in the March quarter.

But that was only thanks to the net 28,330 new immigrants who arrived over those three months to make up for the net 14,980 citizens who left.
Per capita, we’re now at least 18 months into a recession. Unless everyone has produced and earned more in the current quarter than in the previous three months, we’re 21 months into that recession.

The average New Zealander is nearly $300 a month down compared with September 2022, using March 2024 dollars. That’s $1200 a month less for a household of two parents and two kids. Collectively, we’ve all taken a 4.3% pay cut over 18 months, with more on the way.

There’s never been anything this bad as far back as Statistics NZ reports.

The recession after the Global Financial Crisis was close. In the 21 months from September 2007, we went back 4.2% on average. Our current malaise has happened faster and is worse.


Very bad times, yet it’s predicted to be at least another year before the reserve bank eases up….

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

What’s your actual plan to boost supply and living standards? A deportation scheme?

Housing just off my head:

- scrap the RMA.
- Get rid of urban boundaries. And free up land
- Allow a wider range of materials approved for use.
- Limit immigration levels to a sustainable amount.
- Standardise design, approve solutions rather than having to re-engineer, the same thing over and over.

Your argument that immigration doesn’t affect housing doesn’t wash. If we could put all the money into improving existing infrastructure instead of spending that money on new houses for immigrants, we would be a lot more sustainable

 

[Noitall]

By the way, with National raising speeds, wasn’t it great to have a long weekend with no road deaths

That is great, unfortunately what’s not is violent crime up. Bad look to have a person killed riding on public transport amongst many more reported

 

[dean]

A CGT or land tax isn’t about targeting wealthy individuals; it’s about creating revenue for underfunded infrastructure to increase supply. If that revenue isn’t going to infrastructure, it’s an accountability issue, not a problem with the tax itself. Ignoring these revenue streams just keeps prices inflated. What’s your solution to fix the supply issue?

A CGT or land tax IS about targeting wealthy individuals in the eyes of the left. It is nothing more than envy tax, it wont bring down land or house prices or fix supply.
How does the absence of a CGT or land tax keep prices inflated? You even suggest that the tax may not go toward infrastructure but lets blame that on something else before we even start.
There are many issues regarding supply that have been well covered here but I will remind you of the morons at HNZ who have gone out and purchased various pieces of bare land around the country at inflated prices then banked that land while they spent years spending millions on the big engineering and architectural companies to tell them what to do with it. In the meantime they reduced supply and went back into the market, effectively ratcheting prices up as available land became reduced and the most recent market prices were set by themselves. Guess who this impacts most. First home buyers.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

wizard of Tauranga
wizard of Tauranga
Jun 21, 2024
Add bookmark
#9,159
Yesterday’s GDP data suggests the economy grew 0.2% in the March quarter.

But that was only thanks to the net 28,330 new immigrants who arrived over those three months to make up for the net 14,980 citizens who left.
Per capita, we’re now at least 18 months into a recession. Unless everyone has produced and earned more in the current quarter than in the previous three months, we’re 21 months into that recession.

The average New Zealander is nearly $300 a month down compared with September 2022, using March 2024 dollars. That’s $1200 a month less for a household of two parents and two kids. Collectively, we’ve all taken a 4.3% pay cut over 18 months, with more on the way.

There’s never been anything this bad as far back as Statistics NZ reports.

The recession after the Global Financial Crisis was close. In the 21 months from September 2007, we went back 4.2% on average. Our current malaise has happened faster and is worse.


Very bad times, yet it’s predicted to be at least another year before the reserve bank eases up….

I don’t think that’s pro immigration at all. I was saying there that the figures are covered up by immigration and they would have been worse otherwise with the I’mmigration hiding how we are really going.

 

[Rizzah]

Lol, so according to the replies - the left suck - tax's are envy and it's all the migrants fault. This feels like a JD Vance TED talk.