Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[Noitall]

'Escalation of danger': Te Pāti Māori says candidate's home invaded, vandalised in 'politically motivated attack'

"This escalation of danger is what happens when right-wing politicians race-bait and fearmonger for votes."

www.newshub.co.nz

This is nasty, feels klan like.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

'Escalation of danger': Te Pāti Māori says candidate's home invaded, vandalised in 'politically motivated attack'

"This escalation of danger is what happens when right-wing politicians race-bait and fearmonger for votes."

www.newshub.co.nz

This is nasty, feels klan like.

Guess that’s what happens when you try to change democracy and don’t take the people with you.

Labour bought in many divisive policies that were deliberately hidden from the public before the last election. Hipkins has said himself they haven’t done a good job of explaining co governance when he took over but there has been silence since. Ramming through hidden policy gets a reaction and if you won’t be up front and discuss your agenda (calling everyone racist that mentions it) then people will fester and simmer and find their own outlet.

THEY have created the division by suppressing the debate and this is a natural consequence.

There was never these issues 10 years ago.

 

[PullingTeets]

Guess that’s what happens when you try to change democracy and don’t take the people with you.

Labour bought in many divisive policies that were deliberately hidden from the public before the last election. Hipkins has said himself they haven’t done a good job of explaining co governance when he took over but there has been silence since. Ramming through hidden policy gets a reaction and if you won’t be up front and discuss your agenda (calling everyone racist that mentions it) then people will fester and simmer and find their own outlet.

THEY have created the division by suppressing the debate and this is a natural consequence.

There was never these issues 10 years ago.

Fuck off you fucking racist stupid cunt, I'd love you to talk your racist shit on the street and see how far it gets you.

 

[Noitall]

Guess that’s what happens when you try to change democracy and don’t take the people with you.

Labour bought in many divisive policies that were deliberately hidden from the public before the last election. Hipkins has said himself they haven’t done a good job of explaining co governance when he took over but there has been silence since. Ramming through hidden policy gets a reaction and if you won’t be up front and discuss your agenda (calling everyone racist that mentions it) then people will fester and simmer and find their own outlet.

THEY have created the division by suppressing the debate and this is a natural consequence.

There was never these issues 10 years ago.

Rubbish. Trying to pass this off as what your post suggests deflects away from the fact these people involved in this are mentally deranged.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Rubbish. Trying to pass this off as what your post suggests deflects away from the fact these people involved in this are mentally deranged.

Labour had years of opportunity to explain Co-governance to the electorate and they did not. They sneaked in large changes to our democracy and now he is throwing around the Racism term. They set up the mentally deranged to react…

Balance NZ herald article. Read this and reflect on if Labour has done a good job of explaining their changes:

Chris Hipkins and Jacinda Ardern should not be immune from some of the valid criticisms around politics and the Treaty of Waitangi that Hipkins highlighted in an excellent speech in Northland.

He said it was depressing that political leaders seemed to take one of two options with regards to the Treaty, race-baiting or keeping quiet about it.

Without saying he meant David Seymour and Winston Peters, Hipkins put them in the race-baiting camp. He railed against leaders who saw anti-Māori positions as vote winners, who pursued a narrative that Māori somehow got something that others didn’t.

The one view that Hipkins and Seymour share is that there should be more debate about the Treaty.

It is just a shame that the Hipkins speech was left to an election campaign as Labour leader and did not happen as Prime Minister through the year.

Successive governments have not been open or pro-active enough on developments in Treaty policy, and keeping quiet fosters an environment in which barmy views and expectations can take hold.

Hipkins also identified for the first time the political leaders that “play to the middle ground”.

In this category he included those who keep quiet on Māori issues, and make change but put policies under wraps so as not to appear too “pro-Māori.”

He was probably meaning National but the current Labour Government, especially under Jacinda Ardern’s leadership, has fallen squarely into this category on occasions.

Last election it kept quiet about its intention to abolish the local veto on establishing Māori wards for fear it would become a hot election issue that could deny it a majority.

Nanaia Mahuta as Local Government Minister foreshadowed the move in November, the month following the October election, instead of making the perfectly reasonable case to voters that the existing rules were not working as they had hoped.

There may have been a lot of disagreement about it during the campaign but Labour would have had a mandate to do what it did.

In 2019, it also quietly brought in one of the most significant sets of policy changes to the way government deals with Treaty of Waitangi issues – through Cabinet Office Circular 19 (5) – without discussing it publicly or announcing the changes when they happened.

The circular has suggested various tests that ministers and the public service should put their proposals through to ensure they are consistent with the Treaty.

It said they should be mindful of possible litigation that could be taken in terms of Māori rights whether or not the Treaty was mentioned in their relevant law.

In an interview I had in January with Dame Claudia Orange, she described it as revolutionary.

“I think the general public is not aware that we are going through huge revolutionary changes in the country and in fact, we have taken that such a long way, there is no going back.

“It’s just a question now of how the public service works to implement the policies that come through from Government.”

There are other controversial policies that were not put to the electorate last election. The details of the Māori Health Authority were not spelt out before the last election and the governance structures around the Three Waters entities were not announced before the last election.

And once they were agreed on by Cabinet, it was left to Mahuta and Māori Development Minister Willie Jackson to fight the fight for them.

The leadership of the party did not use its political capital to explain these policies to Pākehā other than defend it at question time and accuse critics of race-baiting.

Within weeks of taking over as Prime Minister, Hipkins made a speech at Waitangi urging New Zealanders to not be afraid of discussing Crown-Māori relations but didn’t make another significant speech about it until yesterday.

Between Waitangi Day and now, Hipkins could have made several careful speeches about indigenous rights, for example on the notion that Māori have rights that others don’t have.

They do have different rights. They have customary rights under the common law that originated in England, before the Treaty of Waitangi was signed in 1840. It was the basis of the mega fisheries settlement and the basis of the Foreshore and Seabed court ruling in 2003.

Customary rights are even recognised in Act’s policy on the Resource Management Act. “Property owners’ legitimate expectations, established through years of law and practice, should be respected,” it says. “This includes customary rights.”

Former Treaty Negotiations Minister Sir Douglas Graham made a front-page splash in the Herald in 1997 at the time of the Ngāi Tahu settlement, which included exclusive riverside and lake campsites.

He told me: “Māori have certain customary rights that have not been extinguished. We [non-Māori] don’t have them.”

The sooner people learned Māori had rights that others didn’t, the better, he said.

Hipkins could have made a speech on the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi setting out their historical context. Instead, Seymour has filled the void with suggestions that no one knows what they are and they must be defined by referendum.

The principles of the Treaty were developed as a way to reconcile the differing English and Māori versions of the Treaty. They have been set out by the Waitangi Tribunal, the courts and the Government at various times.

In 1989 they were first spelt out by the Government as five principles (the first three being based on the articles of the Treaty itself) upon which the ensuing Treaty settlements were based, as follows:

• The Kawanatanga Principle recognising the right of the Government to govern;
• The Rangatiratanga Principle recognising the right of iwi to self-management;
• The Principle of Equality recognising all New Zealanders are equal before the law;
• The Principle of Reasonable Co-operation between iwi and government on matters of major concern;
• The Principle of Redress, acknowledging the resolution of grievance through the courts, the Waitangi Tribunal or direct negotiation.

Importantly, the principle of equality allowed that special measures could be undertaken to ensure that social benefits were also achieved by Māori, as long as they stopped when equality was achieved.

And the principle of partnership, which by 1989 had already been expressed in the Lands Case of 1987, was seen as an outcome of the Principle of Reasonable Co-operation. It has since developed legs of its own as a principle.

Hipkins made an important speech about the Treaty. He said it was time for governments to stop thinking they know best when it comes to Māori.

He described it as “a partnership, a promise, a bringing together of two peoples.” Ten years ago, that would not have been controversial. Today even the principle of partnership is contested.

For his next speech on the Treaty, he could try to define the parameters of partnership or what his vision would be for 2040.

Whoever is Prime Minister after the election, that person should be showing leadership on the issue every year, not just election time.

Audrey Young: Hipkins finally finds a voice on the Treaty

OPINION: Māori do have different rights.

www.nzherald.co.nz

 

[Noitall]

Labour had years of opportunity to explain Co-governance to the electorate and they did not. They sneaked in large changes to our democracy and now he is throwing around the Racism term. They set up the mentally deranged to react…

Gangs birthed out the system shitting on them, do we accept their crime is acceptable because of this? To legitimise what these people have done in this case as anything more than racist is bullshit.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Fuck off you fucking racist stupid cunt, I'd love you to talk your racist shit on the street and see how far it gets you.

What have I said that’s racist?

People like you are the reason racial tension builds because you suppress the debate until the wack jobs decide to take matters into their own hands…

 

[Noitall]

What have I said that’s racist?

People like you are the reason racial tension builds because you suppress the debate until the wack jobs decide to take matters into their own hands…

And the other side of the coin is smashing into somebody’s house you disagree with and leave threatening letters. We’re heading into dangerous territory, Japan had an assassination in recent times of Shinzo Abe, think it was Argentina had an attempt on an opposition leaders life recently? Not sure how you can blame labour entirely for this and nothing to do with the misinformation Peters and Seymour are spouting around the subject? The allegations of race baiting feels accurate to me.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

And the other side of the coin is smashing into somebody’s house you disagree with and leave threatening letters. We’re heading into dangerous territory, Japan had an assassination in recent times of Shinzo Abe, think it was Argentina had an attempt on an opposition leaders life recently? Not sure how you can blame labour entirely for this and nothing to do with the misinformation Peters and Seymour are spouting around the subject? The allegations of race baiting feels accurate to me.

Labour has made the changes and it’s up to them to explain them.

I’ve said before my mother has a medical issue that needs expensive meds and her doctor wanted her to declare herself Maori to get them for free.

Same medical condition but lower quality of life simply due to race - that’s racist.

Labour has to defend that, not tell anyone with an issue that THEY are racist…

 

[Noitall]

Labour has made the changes and it’s up to them to explain them.

I’ve said before my mother has a medical issue that needs expensive meds and her doctor wanted her to declare herself Maori to get them for free.

Same medical condition but different outcomes - that’s racist.

All part of the history of our country unfortunately, have a look into it. Labour must explain the changes but misinformation is fair game? Not sure I follow your logic.

 

[dean]

'Escalation of danger': Te Pāti Māori says candidate's home invaded, vandalised in 'politically motivated attack'

"This escalation of danger is what happens when right-wing politicians race-bait and fearmonger for votes."

www.newshub.co.nz

This is nasty, feels klan like.

The article doesn't say much other than race bait. Doesn't say the Police are involved, just a wild accusation against her political opponents.

 

[Noitall]

The article doesn't say much other than race bait. Doesn't say the Police are involved, just a wild accusation against her political opponents.

The accusations aren’t against her political opponents for the vandalism, the vandalism is a symptom of the race baiting and misinformation being bandied about which is being called out.

 

[juju]

Labour has made the changes and it’s up to them to explain them.

I’ve said before my mother has a medical issue that needs expensive meds and her doctor wanted her to declare herself Maori to get them for free.

Same medical condition but lower quality of life simply due to race - that’s racist.

Labour has to defend that, not tell anyone with an issue that THEY are racist…

The politician is not even from Labour.

It says a lot you showed not one shred of sympathy for a 20 year old Maori woman.

In fact we've seen you show more sympathy for Destiny Church.

And yes it most definitely is a racially motivated incident.

 

[dean]

The accusations aren’t against her political opponents for the vandalism, the vandalism is a symptom of the race baiting and misinformation being bandied about which is being called out.

I think accusation is aimed higher than whoever did the vandalism. I am interested in what the vandalism is and what the note said. The article doesn't tell us and because it doesn't, it is easy to jump to conclusions. Any break in should be treated very seriously, investigated by the Police and those responsible charged.

 

[defensivebomb]

'Escalation of danger': Te Pāti Māori says candidate's home invaded, vandalised in 'politically motivated attack'

"This escalation of danger is what happens when right-wing politicians race-bait and fearmonger for votes."

www.newshub.co.nz

This is nasty, feels klan like.

I hope the police are involved

 

[juju]

Labour has made the changes and it’s up to them to explain them.

I’ve said before my mother has a medical issue that needs expensive meds and her doctor wanted her to declare herself Maori to get them for free.

Same medical condition but lower quality of life simply due to race - that’s racist.

Labour has to defend that, not tell anyone with an issue that THEY are racist…

Do you accept having a society where different ethnicities with far worse life expectancy, health outcomes is racist?

It's always about your own personal anecdotal issues - your father in law, your mother.
Society is not just about you & your experiences solely.

 

[Noitall]

I think accusation is aimed higher than whoever did the vandalism.

What line or where gave you that impression?

 

[Noitall]

Do you accept having a society where different ethnicities with far worse life expectancy, health outcomes is racist?

It's always about your own personal anecdotal issues - your father in law, your mother.
Society is not just about you & your experiences solely.

I find it fascinating how Winston gets away with the apartheid comparison. A system put in place by their oppressors to control them and their outcomes and a system advocated by those wanting a system to control their own outcomes in health for example, which you say.

 

[juju]

I find it fascinating how Winston gets away with the apartheid comparison. A system put in place by their oppressors to control them and their outcomes and a system advocated by those wanting a system to control their own outcomes in health for example, which you say.

He shamelessly pursues power and money - I doubt he actually believes half the things he says.
Good to see the Act / NZF slugging it out of the nut job vote though.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Do you accept having a society where different ethnicities with far worse life expectancy, health outcomes is racist?

It's always about your own personal anecdotal issues - your father in law, your mother.
Society is not just about you & your experiences solely.

I don’t. I think we need to aim to do better and I support most initiatives.

I support equal opportunity in education, health, etc. But I believe to get equal outcomes actually means changing Maori culture away from who they are. Can we ever get that? Should we aim for that?

I don’t think we are addressing the real underlying issues so just ambulance at the bottom of the cliff eg prioritising Maori for medical treatment when there is the same need helps anyone. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Overall I support assisting Maori. But when you do you MUST tell people why, explain it and get people on board. Communication. Or else you just end up with the cause going backwards like we have now. That’s on Labour deliberately keeping quiet then blaming misinformation and racist talk. Your fault Labour.