Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[miket12]

Man, it's hard dealing with banks at the moment.

We're wanting to put part of our mortgage on Interest Only for six months so that the amount we pay each fortnight remains the same. But, because there's a very slight possibility that the interest rates may not change enough, the bank is concerned that we may be forced to pay more at the end of that time and want us to go through an application process providing proof of income and expenses.

Of course, it's highly likely interest rates will have continued to drop and it won't be an issue.

The stupid thing is, if we continue to pay the entire loan as Principle and Interest, our fortnightly repayments will go up over $300 but the bank don't need proof of income and expenses to see if we can afford that.

How dumb is this? Provide them proof that we can afford to pay what we're already paying but give them no proof to pay them more.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Sad to hear of the passing of Rod Oram, one of the best Business editors NZ has ever had. Loved the way he didn’t care who the government was…. it was his job to hold them to account whether the subject was business, the economy or the climate. Had the privilege of meeting him a few times. Definitely a top guy!!!

Obituary: Rod Oram - Champion of business, climate journalism and inaugural Business Herald editor

Oram was widely respected for his work and personal kindness.

www.nzherald.co.nz

Absolutely Mike, a genuine champion and defender of people and the planet

 

[John Nick]

Man, it's hard dealing with banks at the moment.

We're wanting to put part of our mortgage on Interest Only for six months so that the amount we pay each fortnight remains the same. But, because there's a very slight possibility that the interest rates may not change enough, the bank is concerned that we may be forced to pay more at the end of that time and want us to go through an application process providing proof of income and expenses.

Of course, it's highly likely interest rates will have continued to drop and it won't be an issue.

The stupid thing is, if we continue to pay the entire loan as Principle and Interest, our fortnightly repayments will go up over $300 but the bank don't need proof of income and expenses to see if we can afford that.

How dumb is this? Provide them proof that we can afford to pay what we're already paying but give them no proof to pay them more.

I am with 2 Banks. Business and personal.
I am amazed that I am continually getting emails about how they there to help me.
Waste of time

 

[miket12]

I am with 2 Banks. Business and personal.
I am amazed that I am continually getting emails about how they there to help me.
Waste of time

Our bank's latest advertising slogan is "let's find a way"..... Shayleen decided it means "let's find a way to really piss you off"

 

[Wellington Taniwha]

You’re probably too young to remember back in the 1980’s when NZ Super was means tested by the IRD. If someone on the pension had too much income from another source like still working, bank deposits or other investments, that was subject to a surcharge tax in addition to their normal tax rate.

It’s becoming more and more obvious we can’t keep borrowing to pay the growing number of pensioners a universal pension…. even with the NZ Superfund, there will be a shortfall of 60% by 2040. I may be a cynical old bugger but I don’t trust political parties to not start looking with envy at the amount of money people have in their KiwiSaver funds. A quick calculation shows that for every dollar my wife and I have in our KiwiSaver accounts, employers contributions, government contributions and fund returns have added four extra dollars.

Add to that, our other employer funded superannuation fund, managed funds, cash accounts, share portfolio and equity in property and, although we wouldn’t make the Greens wealth tax threshold, I can see a party thinking “why should they be getting the Super”. TBH, that’s one of the reason we brought a rental property…. to fund our retirement if the government no longer did…. or reduced it.

I watched as firstly the 1980’s share market crash, then the 2000’s e-com drops, business failures and finally, finance companies, continued to take away my parents wealth. I watched, how not having diverse investments and a stable base to fall back on, hurt them. To make sure we could look after ourselves if a party decides we have too much and either looks at taking it via a wealth tax or means testing super or adjusts the starting age, we decided we need to look after ourselves.

what the? So we did used to means test pensions.......super is currently costing $19b per year (up from $15b in 2019). The amount of healthcare dollars sucked up by over 65s has taken a greater proportion in the last few years....its completely unsustainable and needs to be addresed in this term of government. Otherwise you'll get the nutjobs greens trying a wealth tax.

Good on you for diversifying. I'm doing the same in anticipation of no state funding when i get there. A bit unfair considering the tax paid but however, fairness should be the name of the game. most people work hard.

However, I would vote for someone who was centrist who could stop the bludgers having kids and carrying on intergenerational trauma. Perhaps incentives such as housing/financial gain.

 

[miket12]

what the? So we did used to means test pensions.......super is currently costing $19b per year (up from $15b in 2019). The amount of healthcare dollars sucked up by over 65s has taken a greater proportion in the last few years....its completely unsustainable and needs to be addresed in this term of government. Otherwise you'll get the nutjobs greens trying a wealth tax.

It was weasel words by the government of the day…. they weren’t misses testing people’s pension and the pension wasn’t withheld from people but they increased the tax pensioners paid on their other income.

Of course, it got to the point where it was better not to get the pension so the other income wasn’t taxed so highly…. it wasn’t worth getting a pension when your additional tax you had to pay was higher than the pension.

 

[MaybeTop8]

what the? So we did used to means test pensions.......super is currently costing $19b per year (up from $15b in 2019). The amount of healthcare dollars sucked up by over 65s has taken a greater proportion in the last few years....its completely unsustainable and needs to be addresed in this term of government. Otherwise you'll get the nutjobs greens trying a wealth tax.

Good on you for diversifying. I'm doing the same in anticipation of no state funding when i get there. A bit unfair considering the tax paid but however, fairness should be the name of the game. most people work hard.

However, I would vote for someone who was centrist who could stop the bludgers having kids and carrying on intergenerational trauma. Perhaps incentives such as housing/financial gain.

You sound like an idiot. Ah it was going so well. "Nutjob greens". If you want madness in it's many forms the right have PLENTY of it - act? Full of not very nice out there people. NZ First - have you heard Winston lately?

Bludgers? Eugenics?

Back to idiot.

 

[Lord Gnome of Waiheke]

Thanks for your reply. I don't really think a CGT or Wealth tax is the answer but otherwise agree with all you've said.

Oh, and enjoy those carrot sticks

It was mainly Syrah, but still vegan old chap.

Must have been a good lunch as I'm not home yet.

 

[miket12]

Cost-of-living crisis: Building consents plunge in Tauranga amid housing shortage​

Fewer building consents are being granted as people struggle to afford home loans amid interest rate rises and the cost-of-living crisis. The issue has prompted concerns New Zealand’s “most unaffordable city” will become even more expensive to live in. Kiri Gillespie reports.

A sharp fall in building consents in Tauranga has sparked fears of spiralling house prices and a worsening housing shortage in a city labelled the country’s “most unaffordable”.

Industry leaders say the nationwide slow-down in consents for new homes is due to borrowers struggling to meet the financial requirements for loans.

A report presented at a Tauranga City Council meeting on Monday revealed the number of new dwellings consented and granted in January was “significantly below” that forecast. Just 29 units were consented and 20 received code of compliance certificates (CCCs), compared with an expected average of 93 per month.

In the year to January, 655 units were consented and 849 received code of compliance – 58 per cent and 76 per cent of the forecast demand, respectively.

‘Nowhere near where we should be’​

Commission chairwoman Anne Tolley said the city was already grappling with having 5500 fewer homes than needed and said the report indicated it was falling “further behind with our housing shortage”.

“We are nowhere near where we should be. I don’t know how we can cope with that.”

Commissioner Stephen Selwood said the city should consent at least 93 consents a month, “and we’re sitting on 29?”

“That is a long, long way behind where we need to be. The implication of that is increased house prices,” he said.

“It’s fortunate the Government is very focussed on this issue but it’s going to take central Government, local government and the private sector to work together to try to turn this around.

“We will be the most unaffordable city – we already are, but it will be worse. It’s a call to action for all of us.”

In January, Trade Me’s rental price index showed rents reached an all-time high, and the Bay of Plenty overtook Auckland to have the country’s most expensive rent. Recent CoreLogic income and house price analysis found it would take longer to save a home deposit in Tauranga than in any other main centre.

Interest rates’ impact​

Council manager of building services Steve Pearce told the Bay of Plenty Times “drivers” responsible for fewer consents included a drop in applications from the “home-builder group”.

The “significant reduction” aligned with interest rates beginning to rise in late 2021, Pearce said.

In February, NZME reported in the past two years, the average one-year rate had gone from 3.7 per cent to 7.3 per cent, which on a home loan of $500,000, equated to an extra $370 a week.

A breakdown of rates across all banks showed nearly all floating home deposit rates were higher than average.

Pearce said Plan Change 33, the council’s response to the Government’s National Policy Statement on Urban Development, was expected to allow for more housing through intensification of existing residential areas. More intensive development was being consented, he said.

Classic Group director Peter Cooney has seen the market cooling down throughout New Zealand over the past 18 months.

Classic Group includes Classic Builders – one of the country’s largest residential building firms.

The drop-off in new builds was not due to a lack of interest, Cooney said.

“Enquiries are really good but people just can’t get finance, when they go to the banks many struggle to pass the first financial stress test,” he said.

Tauranga suffers ‘double whammy’​

“Tauranga got a double whammy because it’s got a severe lack of land and a severe lack of stock,” Cooney said.

Cooney said he did not believe developers would invest in the types of apartment buildings wanted under Plan Change 33.

However, Cooney agreed with Selwood’s assertion housing issues required a collaborative response from the Government, councils and the private sector.

While he was hopeful the National-led Government was making the right noises, the devil would be in the detail, Cooney said.

Govt’s plan to fix housing crisis​

Housing Minister Chris Bishop said, on behalf of himself and Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk, that the residential construction slowdown across New Zealand was driven by high interest rates during the cost-of-living crisis.

Bishop said the coalition Government was focused on lowering inflation “and getting the economy back on track which is the most important thing we can do to turn this around”.

“We also have an ambitious plan to fix the housing crisis by unlocking land for housing inside and around our cities, building infrastructure, driving down building costs and making it easier to build. The Government will make announcements about these policies in due course.”

In a statement on Wednesday, Penk said the Government was working to reduce delays by having councils file quarterly reports.

“Delays in the building consent system increase the cost of building and make it harder for the sector to deliver more affordable homes for Kiwi families.”

There was no consistent nationwide data on consent timeframes, he said.

“This will change and starting in April, Building Consent Authorities will be required to submit timeframes for building consent and code compliance certificate applications with this data being published on MBIE’s [Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment] website every quarter.”

Kiri Gillespie is an assistant news director and a senior journalist for the Bay of Plenty Times and Rotorua Daily Post, specialising in local politics and city issues. She was a finalist for the Voyager Media Awards Regional Journalist of the Year in 2021.

'Don’t know how we can cope': Building consents plunge in 'most unaffordable city'

'We are nowhere near where we should be.'

www.nzherald.co.nz

Tauranga is just the start... reports from within the residential construction industry and from council's are looking like there's a big drop off in building consents and CCC's being issued in most of the larger centres. Yesterday, another housing company in Auckland went into liquation.

Bishop's words are just as meaningless as Megan Woods were with the previous government. It's all talk and no substance. And the new Government has made things worse for FHB's by finishing some of the grants and shared equity plans of the previous government. All though Labour's plans weren't ambitious enough in terms of shared equity, at least they had some.

Part of the new government's excuse for shutting these programs down is that FHB's can access their KiwiSaver accounts. Sorry, but they were able to do that under the previous government as well as the programs Bishop has shut down and still had trouble getting their deposits. Sorry, Bishop, Luxon and Willis but reducing inflation is not going to solve the housing crisis.... it didn't under John Key when inflation was low, it didn't under Ardern when inflation was low and it won't under you!!!

Wait for the lack of supply to push values up quickly, which will force rents to rise and make the dream of FHB's to get their first home even harder. Time for people to forget about what any government will do to help them into their first home and look at things like getting in borders to share the burden of rent to save faster and maybe go into joint home ownership with family members or friends. Or hope the Bank of Mum and Dad are there to give you the balance of the deposit.

 

[Lord Gnome of Waiheke]

Cost-of-living crisis: Building consents plunge in Tauranga amid housing shortage​

Fewer building consents are being granted as people struggle to afford home loans amid interest rate rises and the cost-of-living crisis. The issue has prompted concerns New Zealand’s “most unaffordable city” will become even more expensive to live in. Kiri Gillespie reports.

A sharp fall in building consents in Tauranga has sparked fears of spiralling house prices and a worsening housing shortage in a city labelled the country’s “most unaffordable”.

Industry leaders say the nationwide slow-down in consents for new homes is due to borrowers struggling to meet the financial requirements for loans.

A report presented at a Tauranga City Council meeting on Monday revealed the number of new dwellings consented and granted in January was “significantly below” that forecast. Just 29 units were consented and 20 received code of compliance certificates (CCCs), compared with an expected average of 93 per month.

In the year to January, 655 units were consented and 849 received code of compliance – 58 per cent and 76 per cent of the forecast demand, respectively.

‘Nowhere near where we should be’​

Commission chairwoman Anne Tolley said the city was already grappling with having 5500 fewer homes than needed and said the report indicated it was falling “further behind with our housing shortage”.

“We are nowhere near where we should be. I don’t know how we can cope with that.”

Commissioner Stephen Selwood said the city should consent at least 93 consents a month, “and we’re sitting on 29?”

“That is a long, long way behind where we need to be. The implication of that is increased house prices,” he said.

“It’s fortunate the Government is very focussed on this issue but it’s going to take central Government, local government and the private sector to work together to try to turn this around.

“We will be the most unaffordable city – we already are, but it will be worse. It’s a call to action for all of us.”

In January, Trade Me’s rental price index showed rents reached an all-time high, and the Bay of Plenty overtook Auckland to have the country’s most expensive rent. Recent CoreLogic income and house price analysis found it would take longer to save a home deposit in Tauranga than in any other main centre.

Interest rates’ impact​

Council manager of building services Steve Pearce told the Bay of Plenty Times “drivers” responsible for fewer consents included a drop in applications from the “home-builder group”.

The “significant reduction” aligned with interest rates beginning to rise in late 2021, Pearce said.

In February, NZME reported in the past two years, the average one-year rate had gone from 3.7 per cent to 7.3 per cent, which on a home loan of $500,000, equated to an extra $370 a week.

A breakdown of rates across all banks showed nearly all floating home deposit rates were higher than average.

Pearce said Plan Change 33, the council’s response to the Government’s National Policy Statement on Urban Development, was expected to allow for more housing through intensification of existing residential areas. More intensive development was being consented, he said.

Classic Group director Peter Cooney has seen the market cooling down throughout New Zealand over the past 18 months.

Classic Group includes Classic Builders – one of the country’s largest residential building firms.

The drop-off in new builds was not due to a lack of interest, Cooney said.

“Enquiries are really good but people just can’t get finance, when they go to the banks many struggle to pass the first financial stress test,” he said.

Tauranga suffers ‘double whammy’​

“Tauranga got a double whammy because it’s got a severe lack of land and a severe lack of stock,” Cooney said.

Cooney said he did not believe developers would invest in the types of apartment buildings wanted under Plan Change 33.

However, Cooney agreed with Selwood’s assertion housing issues required a collaborative response from the Government, councils and the private sector.

While he was hopeful the National-led Government was making the right noises, the devil would be in the detail, Cooney said.

Govt’s plan to fix housing crisis​

Housing Minister Chris Bishop said, on behalf of himself and Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk, that the residential construction slowdown across New Zealand was driven by high interest rates during the cost-of-living crisis.

Bishop said the coalition Government was focused on lowering inflation “and getting the economy back on track which is the most important thing we can do to turn this around”.

“We also have an ambitious plan to fix the housing crisis by unlocking land for housing inside and around our cities, building infrastructure, driving down building costs and making it easier to build. The Government will make announcements about these policies in due course.”

In a statement on Wednesday, Penk said the Government was working to reduce delays by having councils file quarterly reports.

“Delays in the building consent system increase the cost of building and make it harder for the sector to deliver more affordable homes for Kiwi families.”

There was no consistent nationwide data on consent timeframes, he said.

“This will change and starting in April, Building Consent Authorities will be required to submit timeframes for building consent and code compliance certificate applications with this data being published on MBIE’s [Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment] website every quarter.”

Kiri Gillespie is an assistant news director and a senior journalist for the Bay of Plenty Times and Rotorua Daily Post, specialising in local politics and city issues. She was a finalist for the Voyager Media Awards Regional Journalist of the Year in 2021.

'Don’t know how we can cope': Building consents plunge in 'most unaffordable city'

'We are nowhere near where we should be.'

www.nzherald.co.nz

Tauranga is just the start... reports from within the residential construction industry and from council's are looking like there's a big drop off in building consents and CCC's being issued in most of the larger centres. Yesterday, another housing company in Auckland went into liquation.

Bishop's words are just as meaningless as Megan Woods were with the previous government. It's all talk and no substance. And the new Government has made things worse for FHB's by finishing some of the grants and shared equity plans of the previous government. All though Labour's plans weren't ambitious enough in terms of shared equity, at least they had some.

Part of the new government's excuse for shutting these programs down is that FHB's can access their KiwiSaver accounts. Sorry, but they were able to do that under the previous government as well as the programs Bishop has shut down and still had trouble getting their deposits. Sorry, Bishop, Luxon and Willis but reducing inflation is not going to solve the housing crisis.... it didn't under John Key when inflation was low, it didn't under Ardern when inflation was low and it won't under you!!!

Wait for the lack of supply to push values up quickly, which will force rents to rise and make the dream of FHB's to get their first home even harder. Time for people to forget about what any government will do to help them into their first home and look at things like getting in borders to share the burden of rent to save faster and maybe go into joint home ownership with family members or friends. Or hope the Bank of Mum and Dad are there to give you the balance of the deposit.

It's almost like taking billions of dollars out of the economy would cause the economy to contract

 

[Wellington Taniwha]

You sound like an idiot. Ah it was going so well. "Nutjob greens". If you want madness in it's many forms the right have PLENTY of it - act? Full of not very nice out there people. NZ First - have you heard Winston lately?

Bludgers? Eugenics?

Back to idiot.

Haha, yes nutjob greens is a bit unfair. Name calling is never the best approach

The wealth tax is all kinds of silly though. Only country that I know of that has implemented one is the super oil rich Norway. And they are now seeing a withdrawl of capital from the country. What we need is fairness in our tax system, CGT, Land Tax but not at the expense of investment.

Have we talked about an upper age limit for politicians?

 

[miket12]

It's almost like taking billions of dollars out of the economy would cause the economy to contract

It's been going on way before the election, it's starting to show now in the numbers.

To many smaller builders who would build 3-4 spec homes each year were pushed out of the new subdivisions where the developers would only sell to the big companies so they then started to compete with the normal infill specialists so property values went up, then material supply issues and cost of materials flew up and the value of properties fell. Builders can't afford to build and sell at a loss.

There's a lot of subdivisions and developments on hold at the moment or land being dumped by developers/builders because they can no longer afford to build on it. Places like Howick Parklands are having a field day at the moment buying from builders/developers trying to off load properties. Have a big enough war chest/backers and the patience to sit on land, and there's a fortune to be made. Unfortunately, it will be at the expense of the public trying to buy when properties values start to soar again.

 

[defensivebomb]

It's almost like taking billions of dollars out of the economy would cause the economy to contract

to be fair, this is what the RBNZ has been trying to do since 2021 by raising the OCR

the result isn't directly due to either political party

 

[dean]

to be fair, this is what the RBNZ has been trying to do since 2021 by raising the OCR

the result isn't directly due to either political party

It is due to the previous govt having the economy awash with money and the RB not lifting interest rates when they should have, when assets were sky rocketing, ie, shares and real estate, even cars and boats.
On reflection, I liked it better then as the value of my assets were greater, far exceeding the increased cost of living.

 

[John Nick]

It is due to the previous govt having the economy awash with money and the RB not lifting interest rates when they should have, when assets were sky rocketing, ie, shares and real estate, even cars and boats.
On reflection, I liked it better then as the value of my assets were greater, far exceeding the increased cost of living.

Remember when Covid was becoming a thing and everyone including the real estate agents were predicting the arse would fall out of the market.
Exactly the opposite result.

 

[defensivebomb]

It is due to the previous govt having the economy awash with money and the RB not lifting interest rates when they should have, when assets were sky rocketing, ie, shares and real estate, even cars and boats.

fair call. I deliberately added the "directly" in my comment "the result isn't directly due to either political party" as I wanted to avoid the left vs right debate, for which we'd have the usual sides duking it out

crazy when we look back with hindsight at monetary and fiscal policy and see the obvious results play out

 

[Lord Gnome of Waiheke]

It's been going on way before the election, it's starting to show now in the numbers.

To many smaller builders who would build 3-4 spec homes each year were pushed out of the new subdivisions where the developers would only sell to the big companies so they then started to compete with the normal infill specialists so property values went up, then material supply issues and cost of materials flew up and the value of properties fell. Builders can't afford to build and sell at a loss.

There's a lot of subdivisions and developments on hold at the moment or land being dumped by developers/builders because they can no longer afford to build on it. Places like Howick Parklands are having a field day at the moment buying from builders/developers trying to off load properties. Have a big enough war chest/backers and the patience to sit on land, and there's a fortune to be made. Unfortunately, it will be at the expense of the public trying to buy when properties values start

to soar again.

I don't play in little subdivisions - I'm not Conal Dempsey you know!

 

[miket12]

Haha, yes nutjob greens is a bit unfair. Name calling is never the best approach

The wealth tax is all kinds of silly though. Only country that I know of that has implemented one is the super oil rich Norway. And they are now seeing a withdrawl of capital from the country. What we need is fairness in our tax system, CGT, Land Tax but not at the expense of investment.

Have we talked about an upper age limit for politicians?

During the last US election, Bernie Sanders was pushing for a wealth tax as part of his attempt to get the democrat nomination for president. Because a lot of the US public didn't understand the difference between a CGT and a Wealth Tax and how they would affect the transfer of intergenerational wealth, a Harvard Professor of Economics wrote a really interesting article for the NY Post. A compared a CGT to a Wealth Tax and to an Inheritance Tax.

What he found was that most countries that had Wealth Taxes had abandoned them as they were expensive to administer and enforce compared to other taxes. People would go to all sorts of extremes to minimize their wealth in order to lessen their tax burden.... and it made tax accountants extremely rich making up schemes to lessen tax bills. Say a couple are worth $30 million and have to pay a 2% annual wealth tax of $600,000. Instead, they pay their accountant $50,000 to make their wealth appear less on paper hiding assets overseas or in trusts or shell companies and their wealth "drops" down to $20 million meaning they only have to pay $400,000 in wealth tax. The schemes their accountant has come up with has just saved them $350,00 PA in tax.

Taxes like CPT's and Wealth Taxes aren't efficient to run. By time a Tax Dept. has gone through the accounts, audited people, tried to recover money, there is less "tax money" available from these type of taxes than ones which are "easier" for a tax department to administer such as PAYE and GST (or their equivalents in other countries). In other words, for each dollar received in tax, the countries treasury and government receives more from the less complicated the scheme. That's one of the primary reasons the IRD in NZ has always been against a CPT or Wealth Tax.... the government get less bang for it's buck!

An inheritance tax, on the other hand is easier to administer. The value of an estate is estimated at the time of probate with the courts and the inheritance tax is removed before the estate is settled and money paid out. In the case of property, any property transferred is valued and the person or people who inherit that property pays the tax before the property is handed over to them. While it's not as cheap to administer as PAYE or GST, the government receives more money per dollar paid in tax with this form of intergenerational wealth transfer than it does with CGT's or Wealth Taxes.

 

[defensivebomb]

An inheritance tax, on the other hand is easier to administer. The value of an estate is estimated at the time of probate with the courts and the inheritance tax is removed before the estate is settled and money paid out. In the case of property, any property transferred is valued and the person or people who inherit that property pays the tax before the property is handed over to them. While it's not as cheap to administer as PAYE or GST, the government receives more money per dollar paid in tax with this form of intergenerational wealth transfer than it does with CGT's or Wealth Taxes.

the problem with a death tax is it disincentivises dying

no doubt we will end up with a lot of boomers trying to live forever and trying to hold onto their cold, hard, cash

 

[miket12]

the problem with a death tax is it disincentivises dying

no doubt we will end up with a lot of boomers trying to live forever and trying to hold onto their cold, hard, cash

No, there's one reason why an inheritance tax, no matter how much better it is over either a wealth tax (WT) or capital gains tax (CGT), won’t be introduced and instead we’ll get either a CGT or WT and that's greed.

Politicians work in three-year, short term (and therefore, short sighted) cycles. The "benefit" of either a WT or CGT is that the money starts coming in the next financial year.... otherwise, you're waiting too long, and heaven forbid, you might lose the next election and miss playing with that ever-increasing pot of inherited gold.

And then there's the greed of the voters.... let's get at the wealth of those rich fat cats now... we're not waiting until they pass on.

Unfortunately, no matter how much better it is in the long run, NZ politicians and the average Joe public couldn't be bothered waiting. So, in the end, it's inevitable that either a CGT or WT will come in.... not because it's better but because the cash starts rolling in faster. Heaven forbid we actually look long term!!!