Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[juju]

The sad thing is the labour government had the political capital to make real good change but squandered it & wasted billions during covid.

 

[Canonball]

We aren't the clean and green country we are made out to be. We are poor at providing service to tourists. We currently have fairly rampant and visible crime. We are losing our image of being a safe country to visit. It's not exactly cheap to visit here either. We do have a number of success stories in terms of people who have managed to do well for themselves. There unfortunately are an increasing number who don't want to. Much like our education system, we still get some driven, bright students who attain great results but the reality is our education system is failing many more than ever. China's economy is facing a downturn and consumption is falling. Nothing to do with exporting cows and if it is, we aren't the only country China could turn to for that.

We can all point out the good things about us but it takes more than that to succeed as a country. I feel we hamstring ourselves far too much and while we highlight the Peter Jacksons (who people criticised and the government at the time for subsidizing the industry - then Robyn Malcolm got involved too and that went well....). Taika, Scott Dixon etc the list is largely individuals who have done well for themselves, mostly by having to go overseas to do it, where is the innovation that is going to provide export dollars and income and lift wealth, and I struggle to see why we are settling for the highlighted success stories when we could and should have so many more. Are they a success because of where they are from or in spite of where they are from? Probably a mix of both if we are honest.

Yes, we have a nice country to live in and so much to like about it. The thing is it could be so much better and that's what frustrates people I think.

I see this as a failure of corporatism and the hollowing out of institutions - take the university sector, like everywhere in liberal democracies, education suffered from the marketing turn, where you had a product to sell and the consumers would lead what was offered ... eventually you get what we virtually have now: just massive land-holding and development agencies with a student throughput, and somehow still a flex on being the conscience and critic of society, when it's contemporary form really doesn't do a lot more than the Thatcherite declaration of there's no such thing... a medical school in Hamilton, why not eh?... (promised myself i'd never post in any of non-league threads, but here I am)

 

[juju]

I see this as a failure of corporatism and the hollowing out of institutions - take the university sector, like everywhere in liberal democracies, education suffered from the marketing turn, where you had a product to sell and the consumers would lead what was offered ... eventually you get what we virtually have now: just massive land-holding and development agencies with a student throughput, and somehow still a flex on being the conscience and critic of society, when it's contemporary form really doesn't do a lot more than the Thatcherite declaration of there's no such thing... a medical school in Hamilton, why not eh?... (promised myself i'd never post in any of non-league threads, but here I am)

It's also a symptom of poor wage growth and housing affordability - you can't afford to be a teacher and home owner in a major city.

 

[Noitall]

The sad thing is the labour government had the political capital to make real good change but squandered it & wasted billions during covid.

Problem is what you see as good political change isn’t necessarily what others see as good political change and so everything is so watered down by both sides in which not to run the risk of losing voters.

 

[Bruce]

you can't afford to be a teacher and home owner in a major city.

The government sold teachers homes near schools

 

[Bruce]

I wonder what the curriculum looks like in those schools and the standard of teaching?

Those schools have to get their teachers and management from somewhere.
The public system has always provided those, so the problems are seeping through to the private sector, especially with management.
Oh, and I forgot, we can always import them ...that ship sailed long ago.

 

[Possum11]

NZ will never compete with Australia wages so nz has to bond teachers & medical staff for a certain amount of time esp. to the regions

 

[Noitall]

Oh, and I forgot, we can always import them ...that ship sailed long ago.

The problem with immigration, it’s sad to say is that the areas needed for boosting can earn wages elsewhere that we can never compete with and those that are willing to come drive wages down because they are prepared to work for less often coming from places where here is an upgrade.

 

[Bruce]

The problem with immigration, it’s sad to say is that the areas needed for boosting can earn wages elsewhere that we can never compete with and those that are willing to come drive wages down because they are prepared to work for less often coming from places where here is an upgrade.

Teachers wages are not good internationally.
Many imported teachers are like educational gypsies who have been to many countries and treat it as a type of lifestyle thing.
Others, like those who came from England had heard about this beautiful country in the South Pacific, which is true, but our schools suck big time.
Also, apart from wages, our cost of living is terrible.
I checked it out a while back, England outside of London is much better financially.
One has to consider also that most of our new labour is from Asia, especially South Asia.
If they speak English sufficiently well, they can get a job in Merka or Canada.
Also, and the biggie, any newly qualified Kiwis are in demand in England and Australia, go figure.

 

[Inruin]

It's definitely not me that has a lack of perspective.

It's the guy that feels the need to argue the NRL refs are fair & supermarkets / banks and power companies should smash Kiwis to make as much profit as possible.

The big four power companies make $520 million net profit a year.
The banks make $7b net profit a year
The same government report said supermarkets make $1m per day in excess profit.

Yet you'll die on the hill a foreign buyers tax / where the numbers don't stack up is the way to go.

What a pathetic joke.

Have a think about all that.

Let's start with the refs. I defended that there isn't a conspiracy against us. Refs get it wrong, they make mistakes and there are inconsistencies. But you immediately jump to the nth degree rather than actually understanding the point being made.

I don't agree that companies should smash people to make obscene profits. Take banks for example. There is how many different banking options including kiwi bank for consumers to choose from. Ample competition and regulation. The scale of a business makes it very easy to look at a dollar number and cry that's way to big and arguably it is. What is it as a percentage profit margin and what is a acceptable for a business? The government will look in to it and come to the same conclusion it did with petrol companies. That tfe margins being made aren't exorbitant. If it was so out of Kilter wouldn't one bank, kiwibank for example be offering so much more for customers than the others?

Supermarkets probably need a third player but we are a difficult country to get set up in and for distribution. Supermarkets prices are also reflecting inflation coming from the wider market and government policy and spending. Not sure if you want to acknowledge that or just jump straight to supermarkets=bad.

Not dieing on a hill over foriegn buyers tax. Just don't think the economists have used the same data and assumptions. My guess is tfe real number would be somewhere between Nationals and theirs. In the overall scheme of things given the spending and borrowing we have seen it pales. Others seem to want to ignore the spending and borrowing to focus on foriegn buyers tax and whether it's close or not, ignoring the numbers that were put up only months ago which have now blown out by billions. Ignoring the report just released. 6 years of this and National is still the bad guys. Now that's a pathetic joke.

It's ok though. Lorde is a success story. Pretty sure National were in power when she got famous

 

[Noitall]

Teachers wages are not good internationally.
Many imported teachers are like educational gypsies who have been to many countries and treat it as a type of lifestyle thing.
Others, like those who came from England had heard about this beautiful country in the South Pacific, which is true, but our schools suck big time.
Also, apart from wages, our cost of living is terrible.
I checked it out a while back, England outside of London is much better financially.
One has to consider also that most of our new labour is from Asia, especially South Asia.
If they speak English sufficiently well, they can get a job in Merka or Canada.
Also, and the biggie, any newly qualified Kiwis are in demand in England and Australia, go figure.

Like when we immigrated Irish and Filipinos to rebuild Christchurch, which still goes unfinished. Now we’re doing repairs on repairs and so on.

 

[Inruin]

The problem with immigration, it’s sad to say is that the areas needed for boosting can earn wages elsewhere that we can never compete with and those that are willing to come drive wages down because they are prepared to work for less often coming from places where here is an upgrade.

And we are kind of stuck trying to compare ourselves to other countries who utilise their natural resources, make it easier to do business. Etc. We all want teachers, doctors, nurses, police to earn more but we are stuck continually unable to afford to.

 

[Inruin]

I see this as a failure of corporatism and the hollowing out of institutions - take the university sector, like everywhere in liberal democracies, education suffered from the marketing turn, where you had a product to sell and the consumers would lead what was offered ... eventually you get what we virtually have now: just massive land-holding and development agencies with a student throughput, and somehow still a flex on being the conscience and critic of society, when it's contemporary form really doesn't do a lot more than the Thatcherite declaration of there's no such thing... a medical school in Hamilton, why not eh?... (promised myself i'd never post in any of non-league threads, but here I am)

I think the issue for me is that there needs to be a balance between corporatism, government and government policy, a countries culture and society's expectations to name a few It appears everything lately is blame big business or the corporations. It certainly may be part of the issue but it certainly isn't the only one.

 

[juju]

Have a think about all that.

Let's start with the refs. I defended that there isn't a conspiracy against us. Refs get it wrong, they make mistakes and there are inconsistencies. But you immediately jump to the nth degree rather than actually understanding the point being made.

I don't agree that companies should smash people to make obscene profits. Take banks for example. There is how many different banking options including kiwi bank for consumers to choose from. Ample competition and regulation. The scale of a business makes it very easy to look at a dollar number and cry that's way to big and arguably it is. What is it as a percentage profit margin and what is a acceptable for a business? The government will look in to it and come to the same conclusion it did with petrol companies. That tfe margins being made aren't exorbitant. If it was so out of Kilter wouldn't one bank, kiwibank for example be offering so much more for customers than the others?

Supermarkets probably need a third player but we are a difficult country to get set up in and for distribution. Supermarkets prices are also reflecting inflation coming from the wider market and government policy and spending. Not sure if you want to acknowledge that or just jump straight to supermarkets=bad.

Not dieing on a hill over foriegn buyers tax. Just don't think the economists have used the same data and assumptions. My guess is tfe real number would be somewhere between Nationals and theirs. In the overall scheme of things given the spending and borrowing we have seen it pales. Others seem to want to ignore the spending and borrowing to focus on foriegn buyers tax and whether it's close or not, ignoring the numbers that were put up only months ago which have now blown out by billions. Ignoring the report just released. 6 years of this and National is still the bad guys. Now that's a pathetic joke.

It's ok though. Lorde is a success story. Pretty sure National were in power when she got famous

All your posts are so glib it's kinda gross - defending refs is just a really odd thing to argue about when players who have actually played for say it definitely exists.
Speaks a lot about your method of posting and why you come across as quite a dick so regularly tbh.

Supermarkets - we're not talking prices we're talking net profit... or even the excess profit the study found.
A windfall tax similar on banks at a similar rate to the property tax be 1. a known quantify on how much it would bring in 2.still have the banks making 3. generate double the money
Power companies

Remember Governments should be operating in the best interests of the citizens not corporations exploiting them for profit.

A foreign buyer property tax / initiative in a housing crisis is straight up idiotic - but you do want to seem to die on that hill - simply because you want a change of government.

 

[Inruin]

All your posts are so glib it's kinda gross - defending refs is just a really odd thing to argue about when players who have actually played for say it definitely exists.
Speaks a lot about your method of posting and why you come across as quite a dick so regularly tbh.

Supermarkets - we're not talking prices we're talking net profit... or even the excess profit the study found.
A windfall tax similar on banks at a similar rate to the property tax be 1. a known quantify on how much it would bring in 2.still have the banks making 3. generate double the money
Power companies

Remember Governments should be operating in the best interests of the citizens not corporations exploiting them for profit.

A foreign buyer property tax / initiative in a housing crisis is straight up idiotic - but you do want to seem to die on that hill - simply because you want a change of government.

Personal attacks seem to be your go to which says a lot about you and your method of posting.

Not much point responding to any of this other than again you jump to the nth degree. I don't want a change of government based on a foriegn buyers tax. I want one because we are in the shit and going backwards faster than ever. The logical conclusion i draw from you is that you are willing to die on hill to keep this current government despite the overwhelming evidence being presented.

 

[juju]

Personal attacks seem to be your go to which says a lot about you and your method of posting.

Not much point responding to any of this other than again you jump to the nth degree. I don't want a change of government based on a foriegn buyers tax. I want one because we are in the shit and going backwards faster than ever. The logical conclusion i draw from you is that you are willing to die on hill to keep this current government despite the overwhelming evidence being presented.

Weren't you the guy yesterday calling anyone who isn't prepared for National or Act a clown?
Or carried about Jacinda's teeth?
What is it with people of your political inclination you can give but can't take?

I posted my disappointed with Labour a mere few posts again & still undecided in my vote.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

The same government report said supermarkets make $1m per day in excess profit.

You do realise that if you divide the $7m per week by our population is it’s about $1.20 per person per week. Not really a game changer on the average families $300pw grocery bill.

And then the same government is planning to increase our petrol by more than this per week anyway…

I agree on the banks. They make too much when compared to the same banks Australian divisions. I don’t support a wealth tax. The govt should force them into making lower profits with the benefits returned to the public.

 

[juju]

You do realise that if you divide the $7m per week by our population is it’s about $1.20 per person per week. Not really a game changer on the average families $300pw grocery bill.

And then the same government is planning to increase our petrol by more than this per week anyway…

I agree on the banks. They make too much when compared to the same banks Australian divisions. I don’t support a wealth tax. The govt should force them into making lower profits with the benefits returned to the public.

We're talking about tax take on a theoretical windfall tax compared to the theoretical (at the moment) foreign buyers tax.

Enjoy the game guys - "Let's Go On Warriors"

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

We're talking about tax take on a theoretical windfall tax compared to the theoretical (at the moment) foreign buyers tax.

A windfall tax is bad policy - will the government pay a windfall bonus every time there is a recession or a business gets into trouble?

I’m sure you would be the first attacking any corporate welfare?

If it doesn’t work both ways it shows it’s not good policy.

 

[Inruin]

Weren't you the guy yesterday calling anyone who isn't prepared for National or Act a clown?
Or carried about Jacinda's teeth?
What is it with people of your political inclination you can give but can't take?

I posted my disappointed with Labour a mere few posts again & still undecided in my vote.

No, I said there are clowns who can't seem to accept the reality of the situation we are in. Wasn't directed at anyone in particular. Wasn't used as a retort to an argument put up.

What about Jacinda's teeth?

Not overally fussed if you think I'm a dick or not. About as relevant to the discussion as to whether I think you are a cunt or not.

The country is in the shit. You don't seem to think so or it won't be any better with a change of government. So all good. May as well leave it there.