Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[Noitall]

The minimum wage is about to be lifted again shortly. Or is this another of those 'yes it's going up but it's actually coming down' propagandist posts that the 'left' leaning posters seem to enjoy?

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Regarding the minimum wage increase.

 

[defensivebomb]

If that is justification for cutting taxes for high earners - like me - then the world truly has gone mad.

I earn $500k+ a year - I DON'T NEED A FUCKING TAX CUT.

you are obviously quite confused about how NZ's tax system works, despite being a "high earner" that doesn't need a tax cut

there is little tax relief for people that earn high personal income. most of the relief is spread to middle and lower income earners. You know, the "people who need it"

tax deductibility for rental income is something given to residential property investors only. not "high earners"

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

If that is justification for cutting taxes for high earners - like me - then the world truly has gone mad.

I earn $500k+ a year - I DON'T NEED A FUCKING TAX CUT.

However, public services are suffering from years of underinvestment and the government is going to *checks notes* find 10% savings from health, education, transport, housing etc as well as cutting the minimum wage, benefits and pensions.

It's a war on the poor voted for by people who either don't give a shit because they are already wealthy OR FUCKING IDIOTS.

So some idiot is paying you $500k (plus) a year to design under-utilised cycle lanes. Sounds like a good cost cutting opportunity for Auckland Council.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

However, public services are suffering from years of underinvestment and the government is going to *checks notes* find 10% savings from health, education, transport, housing etc as well as cutting the minimum wage, benefits and pensions.

Education was better 20 years about with 600 Ministry of Education employees than now where we have crashed down the international ranking with 4,600 employee’s.

Isn’t quality of public servants better than the current abysmal focus on quantity? Isn’t front line teachers and nurses more important than the explosion of staff at Wellington?

 

[Noitall]

there is little tax relief for people that earn high personal income. most of the relief is spread to middle and lower income earners. You know, the "people who need it"

tax deductibility for rental income is something given to residential property investors only. not "high earners"

Would there be many people who realistically are middle and lower income people or families owning property rentals?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Would there be many people who realistically are middle and lower income people or families owning property rentals?

Yes. The majority of investors own 1 rental property.

It’s called mum and dad investors for a reason.

My parents live on a pension (low income) and have a rental property to supplement their super.

 

[Noitall]

Yes. The majority of investors own 1 rental property.

It’s called mum and dad investors for a reason.

My parents live on a pension (low income) and have a rental property to supplement their super.

Wouldn’t you need to at a minimum have paid a majority, if not all of your initial mortgage like your parents I’d imagine or be earning a decent salary for a bank to lend for another property?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Wouldn’t you need to at a minimum have paid a majority, if not all of your initial mortgage like your parents I’d imagine or be earning a decent salary for a bank to lend for another property?

They bought it years ago when my father was a tradesman (on wages) and my mother stay at home mum.

Middle class. Struggled away to look after themselves in retirement as no KiwiSaver back then.

 

[Noitall]

They bought it years ago when my father was a tradesman (on wages) and my mother stay at home mum.

Middle class. Struggled away to look after themselves in retirement as no KiwiSaver back then.

Their initial house or rental?

 

[defensivebomb]

Would there be many people who realistically are middle and lower income people or families owning property rentals?

maybe, maybe not, I don't know. It is a frequent generalisation that the left trot out: "tax cuts for the rich" But if the debate around "tax cuts" is actually about interest deductibility, then let's call it that

I was just pointing out there is next to no tax cuts for high salary and wage earners. Any personal tax cuts benefitting salary & wage earners that national campaigned on was aimed at the voter base that they were trying to court from Labour - the middle and lower income earners

 

[defensivebomb]

They bought it years ago when my father was a tradesman (on wages) and my mother stay at home mum.

Middle class. Struggled away to look after themselves in retirement as no KiwiSaver back then.

I'd add to this, rightly or wrongly, NZers looking to build wealth have typically done it through something they know and see - residential property. A lot of older people saw the 1987 stockmarket crash and don't want much to do with the sharemarket

so where to put their hard-earned money? the bank, and watch its miserly growth? or bonds, and not understand it? shares, and not be comfortable with the risks? property is the only one left

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Their initial house or rental?

Initial house my parents were about 20 and mum worked part time. Rental they were in about their 50’s?

Always middle class.

 

[Noitall]

maybe, maybe not, I don't know. It is a frequent generalisation that the left trot out: "tax cuts for the rich" But if the debate around "tax cuts" is actually about interest deductibility, then let's call it that

I was just pointing out there is next to no tax cuts for high salary and wage earners. Any personal tax cuts benefitting salary & wage earners that national campaigned on was aimed at the voter base that they were trying to court from Labour - the middle and lower income earners

My point was that I’m not convinced there are many middle to lower income families that could afford a rental property, especially with today’s values. There may well be some but if so, my conclusion would be that the middle income has broken into two separate echelons. If one middle income family has the house they live in and another middle income family has the house they live in and also an extra property, it’s like the second example has shifter higher than the first example owning just the house they live in. Also in recent times, people have enjoyed banks being prepared to lend much more willingly than in the present climate. I know many I’ve recently spoken to that have a fairly handy deposit that would have been accepted only a few years ago, to be declined recently.

 

[Noitall]

Initial house my parents were about 20 and mum worked part time. Rental they were in about their 50’s?

Always middle class.

At what point did they invest in their rental?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

At what point did they invest in their rental?

Not long after us kids left home!

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

My point was that I’m not convinced there are many middle to lower income families that could afford a rental property, especially with today’s values.

What’s middle class? I personally know several teachers that bought a first house last few years. Albeit in Tauranga where you can buy starter homes for around $600k.

If average salary in NZ is $97k. If you have a double working couple that’s approx. a manageable 3 x household income.

Even 2 people on minimum wage could have around a $100k household income which you could buy for under 6 times income as per the reserve banks proposed limits. (Not suggesting it’s possible due to other costs and needing a deposit but as an example of possibilities)

 

[Noitall]

What’s middle class? I personally know several teachers that bought a first house last few years. Albeit in Tauranga where you can buy starter homes for around $600k.

If average salary in NZ is $97k. If you have a double working couple that’s approx. a manageable 3 x household income.

Middle class to me has nothing to do with occupation like being a teacher or anything but more around your financial status. If you earn a million a week and spend a million a week, you’re broke. While we’re asking questions, what’s left and right that you often reference?

 

[dean]

Yes. The majority of investors own 1 rental property.

It’s called mum and dad investors for a reason.

My parents live on a pension (low income) and have a rental property to supplement their super.

Me too.

 

[dean]

My point was that I’m not convinced there are many middle to lower income families that could afford a rental property, especially with today’s values. There may well be some but if so, my conclusion would be that the middle income has broken into two separate echelons. If one middle income family has the house they live in and another middle income family has the house they live in and also an extra property, it’s like the second example has shifter higher than the first example owning just the house they live in. Also in recent times, people have enjoyed banks being prepared to lend much more willingly than in the present climate. I know many I’ve recently spoken to that have a fairly handy deposit that would have been accepted only a few years ago, to be declined recently.

They may ' own ' a rental but really the bank owns up to 80% for many investors.

 

[dean]

So some idiot is paying you $500k (plus) a year to design under-utilised cycle lanes. Sounds like a good cost cutting opportunity for Auckland Council.

ceo of the pedestrian crossing replacement team.