Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[Worried2Death]

I almost agree with that, though Gander has understandably made his party out to look better in that scenario. I'd tweak his interpretation a bit: we go with Labour when we feel that National gets a bit to chummy with their big corporate mates and forget the middle guy or shit on the poor; we go with National when we feel that Labour get too nannying of us and/or profligate with our taxes. The most enduring leaders are those that tread that middle ground well - Clark and Key were very good at this.

I think we sometimes forget that we're incredibly fortunate to live in a stable country that has mostly mild political swings of the pendulum. Despite what rabid social media fringers might have us believe, there hasn't really been a major upheaval since Muldoon's hyper-control from 81-84 into Lange's Labour 84-87. Bolger's subsequent National (90-93, with Richardson in charge of the purse strings for the first term) was distinct for trying to continue with Lange's first term revolution, but it petered out because the public was uncomfortable with the social cost.

What we have annoys revolutionary types because it's boring to them, but I'd say it's a credit to voters and also to politicians who tread the middle ground well. Even our supposed 'extremes' (Greens and Act) aren't really all that extreme, and are still willing to talk to, debate with, and even agree with, each other from time to time. (Seymour and Swarbrick are good value on the chat.) They aren't loony in the way that some fringe parties are overseas. Our supposedly nationalist, anti-foreign party (NZ First) are economically centrist - if anything, more left than right. Even the anti-Maori / 'one NZ' line rings hollow when their 2ic (Shane Jones) is probably the most fluent reo speaker and kaupapa-versed person in Parliament.

Always quite interesting watching Chloe and Seymour finding shared middle ground and defining their ideological disagreements, for some reason they're both more credible together on tv formats like Newshub and AM than the kindy playground shitshow at parliament. Not by much tho in Dave's case.

 

[MaybeTop8]

A bit sounds familiar here too - https://www.theguardian.com/comment...sunak-javier-milei-donald-trump-atlas-network

 

[MaybeTop8]

No surprises this lot are members of the atlas network - https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/our_mission

Likewise the neoliberal thinktank the NZ initiative - https://newsroom.co.nz/2020/10/21/who-the-hell-is-gideon-rozner-anyway/

 

[Noitall]

No surprises this lot are members of the atlas network - https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/our_mission

Big movement in subscription from 2020-2023.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Some facts about the smoking debate:

- NZ has the second highest cigarette prices in the world behind Australia. Asia costs about a tenth of NZ pricing.
- about 10% of cigarettes sold in NZ are currently on the black market. Import at 10% and markup…
- our high prices are directly linked to a high and increasing black market

If we tried to ban smoking and/or reduce outlets it just seems more and more will be done outside the official system.

Jarrod Gilbert: Why Luxon was right about the tobacco black market

OPINION: When Luxon said our smokefree laws would form a black market, he wasn't wrong.

www.nzherald.co.nz

 

[John Nick]

Have you forgotten about Labours tax cut of GST off fruit and veges?

Yea, it was pretty forgettable…

Some facts about the smoking debate:

- NZ has the second highest cigarette prices in the world behind Australia. Asia costs about a tenth of NZ pricing.
- about 10% of cigarettes sold in NZ are currently on the black market. Import at 10% and markup…
- our high prices are directly linked to a high and increasing black market

If we tried to ban smoking and/or reduce outlets it just seems more and more will be done outside the official system.

Jarrod Gilbert: Why Luxon was right about the tobacco black market

OPINION: When Luxon said our smokefree laws would form a black market, he wasn't wrong.

www.nzherald.co.nz

Probably would push it towards the black market but still not a good policy.
Just another dead rat Luxon had to swallow to get the PMs job .

 

[miket12]

Probably would push it towards the black market but still not a good policy.
Just another dead rat Luxon had to swallow to get the PMs job .

While I think it was a stupid idea to drop the Smokefree legislation, it also think there’s a degree of hypocrisy about how people who say they want prohibition for smoking and don’t think the government should be collecting as much tax from it also highlight how much money the government is missing out on by having a prohibition on marijuana. While the argument is the health impact of one over the other, there’s still the revenue and prohibition to consider.

 

[John Nick]

While I think it was a stupid idea to drop the Smokefree legislation, it also think there’s a degree of hypocrisy about how people who say they want prohibition for smoking and don’t think the government should be collecting as much tax from it also highlight how much money the government is missing out on by having a prohibition on marijuana. While the argument is the health impact of one over the other, there’s still the revenue and prohibition to consider.

Fair comment but he backed himself into a corner promising tax cuts with the foreign buyers policy and when he was forced to abandon that he was locked into something to cover his arse

 

[miket12]

Fair comment but he backed himself into a corner promising tax cuts with the foreign buyers policy and when he was forced to abandon that he was locked into something to cover his arse

Same thing happened to Jacinda in 2017. One of Labour’s main election promises was the Airport Light Rail project. That was deliberately left out of the agreement with NZ First because Labour knew NZF were opposed to it.

I think of it this way….. most election promises are only enticements to gain voters these days and will be dropped, changed by a party or adopted by a Government in order to get a coalition agreement through.

Sucks, I know, but that’s what happens with MMP (except 2020’s COVID election).

 

[John Nick]

Same thing happened to Jacinda in 2017. One of Labour’s main election promises was the Airport Light Rail project. That was deliberately left out of the agreement with NZ First because Labour knew NZF were opposed to it.

I think of it this way….. most election promises are only enticements to gain voters these days and will be dropped, changed by a party or adopted by a Government in order to get a coalition agreement through.

Sucks, I know, but that’s what happens with MMP (except 2020’s COVID election).

Same thing happened to Jacinda in 2017. One of Labour’s main election promises was the Airport Light Rail project. That was deliberately left out of the agreement with NZ First because Labour knew NZF were opposed to it.

I think of it this way….. most election promises are only enticements to gain voters these days and will be dropped, changed by a party or adopted by a Government in order to get a coalition agreement through.

Sucks, I know, but that’s what happens with MMP (except 2020’s COVID election).

Agreed but the article about smoking and the black market isn't the reason for the dropping of the smoking legislation.
Just a nonsense by the media trying to justify the fact

 

[tyrael]

- about 10% of cigarettes sold in NZ are currently on the black market. Import at 10% and markup…
- our high prices are directly linked to a high and increasing black market

If we tried to ban smoking and/or reduce outlets it just seems more and more will be done outside the official system.

That's like saying 100% of the MDMA market was pushing to the black market because we banned it. It's like duh.

The difference with cigarettes is that it doesn't give you a high like all the other drugs. Only the people who are addicted will go to the black market. New people will not go underground to smoke cigarettes. Those new people will vape.

I think Nationals policy of not banning smoking is ridiculous. If they want more taxes, then slap another 20% on vapes, that would get them a lot more money and deter more people to start even if it's marginal.

 

[John Nick]

That's like saying 100% of the MDMA market was pushing to the black market because we banned it. It's like duh.

The difference with cigarettes is that it doesn't give you a high like all the other drugs. Only the people who are addicted will go to the black market. New people will not go underground to smoke cigarettes. Those new people will vape.

I think Nationals policy of not banning smoking is ridiculous. If they want more taxes, then slap another 20% on vapes, that would get them a lot more money and deter more people to start even if it's marginal.

My thoughts also.
The original article is a media biased article.

 

[Bay39er]

If we tried to ban smoking and/or reduce outlets it just seems more and more will be done outside the official system.

How so?

Growing your own is not that easy so it would rely on an increase in illicit imports.

Most imports are coming from the Asian market for that groups own use

I don’t think Customs would be slow in upping their ability to protect the border

 

[MaybeTop8]

My thoughts also.
The original article is a media biased article.

National and Act have been corrupted by the tobacco industry

 

[John Nick]

National and Act have been corrupted by the tobacco industry

And their search for power. Dangerous stuff

 

[tyrael]

Also watch act waste money on Charter schools. I rather they give that money to mental health and supporting those who are 16 and don't want to me at school, give them a career path and maybe when they are 22 decide that education is important.

 

[Inruin]

Also watch act waste money on Charter schools. I rather they give that money to mental health and supporting those who are 16 and don't want to me at school, give them a career path and maybe when they are 22 decide that education is important.

I think Charter schools have their place and don't think it is a waste of money. A recent overseas report where charter schools have been in place for longer showed them out performing the more traditional public system. The only ones who appeared to want them gone were Labour and surprise, surprise the teachers union. The problem we now have is that we have something that is different to mainstream, that helps particularly with Maori and Pacific Islanders education but will be repealed when there is a change in government. That doesn't give certainly for these schools and would create a lot of changing back and forth over a relatively short period of time.

 

[tyrael]

I think Charter schools have their place and don't think it is a waste of money. A recent overseas report where charter schools have been in place for longer showed them out performing the more traditional public system. The only ones who appeared to want them gone were Labour and surprise, surprise the teachers union. The problem we now have is that we have something that is different to mainstream, that helps particularly with Maori and Pacific Islanders education but will be repealed when there is a change in government. That doesn't give certainly for these schools and would create a lot of changing back and forth over a relatively short period of time.

Do you know how much money is spent per student compared to public schools?

I would accept it if charter schools were at a 90+% success rate but they don't. Use that money where it can improve outcomes. Kaupapa Maori schools could probably use more funding.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

 

[Inruin]

Do you know how much money is spent per student compared to public schools?

I would accept it if charter schools were at a 90+% success rate but they don't. Use that money where it can improve outcomes. Kaupapa Maori schools could probably use more funding.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

3 that failed to receive the final 1% of funding and mainly with a majority of priority learners that were likely to fall through the cracks. How many public schools are under 90% at that same time? And what was their penalties?

I have a fair idea of the costs. What are the associated costs of those that don't get the help with their education?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Do you know how much money is spent per student compared to public schools?

I would accept it if charter schools were at a 90+% success rate but they don't. Use that money where it can improve outcomes. Kaupapa Maori schools could probably use more funding.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

From the article:

‘It was unreasonable to expect a school with priority learners to reach 85 per cent of students above standard in reading, writing and maths when in some cases they had only had those students for a short period of time, he said.’

The PUBLIC system in 2022 had a pass rate of just 65%. The average public school is 20% below the charter school expectations who have the added challenge of predominantly priority learners…

Hipkin’s criticism, based on those stats, just shows his ideology and teacher union backers who hate charter schools.

NCEA and UE 2022 attainment data now available :: NZQA

The New Zealand Qualifications Authority has released finalised data from 2022, showing attainment of NCEA Levels 3 and University Entrance are similar to the 2019 pre-COVID levels.

www2.nzqa.govt.nz