Politics 🗳️ NZ Politics

[MrFrankWhite]

Huge profits = huge corporate tax.

Huge productivity = huge employee pay (look at Aussie mines) = huge PAYE

Huge money circulating in the system = huge GST

If the government gets 30% of GDP and the economy doubles, our govt doubles what it can provide. Real govt growth rather than taxing more to the detriment of the economy.

It’s counter productive to stay broke so the rich people can’t get any benefit…

These are all seperate to leaky buildings, asset sales and deregulation. Productivity = build more irrigation, mining, oil, high tech manufacturing, secondary production of our primary resources, etc.

I’m sick of trying to live like a first class country off the back of farming and tourism.

100%.

Kiwis need to want better, demand better, and be better. Do that and your elected representatives will reflect it

 

[Noitall]

100%.

Kiwis need to want better, demand better, and be better. Do that and your elected representatives will reflect it

The world needs to demand better with you citing the same issues in aussie, and it’s much of the world. This is why the form of politics us and others perform is flawed, all the to ing and fro ing is literally like burning taxpayers money.

 

[MaybeTop8]

Huge profits = huge corporate tax.

Huge productivity = huge employee pay (look at Aussie mines) = huge PAYE

Huge money circulating in the system = huge GST

If the government gets 30% of GDP and the economy doubles, our govt doubles what it can provide. Real govt growth rather than taxing more to the detriment of the economy.

It’s counter productive to stay broke so the rich people can’t get any benefit…

These are all seperate to leaky buildings, asset sales and deregulation. Productivity = build more irrigation, mining, oil, high tech manufacturing, secondary production of our primary resources, etc.

I’m sick of trying to live like a first class country off the back of farming and tourism.

Huge corporate tax? The offshore corporates do everything they can to get out of it.

Anyway, you're talking productivity, I'm talking the last 40 years of neoliberalism. Not incompatible, and the latter hinders the former.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

The world needs to demand better with you citing the same issues in aussie, and it’s much of the world. This is why the form of politics us and others perform is flawed, all the to ing and fro ing is literally like burning taxpayers money.

This is true. But diffreence is in Aussie, people had a taste of the sweet life. So they'll fight to get it back. NZ has never had it...

 

[Noitall]

This is true. But diffreence is in Aussie, people had a taste of the sweet life. So they'll fight to get it back. NZ has never had it...

Think a lot of people would be more than happy to just go back pre covid.

 

[MrFrankWhite]

Think a lot of people would be more than happy to just go back pre covid.

NZ thinking in a nutshell

 

[Noitall]

NZ thinking in a nutshell

Apart from being a vastly bigger country in size and population, it sort of feels like aussie is as reliant on their mining industry as NZ is with its agricultural sector? Both are going to feel the pinch as time goes on to make their practices cleaner. Both countries are going to need to diversify over time.

 

[John Nick]

Apart from being a vastly bigger country in size and population, it sort of feels like aussie is as reliant on their mining industry as NZ is with its agricultural sector? Both are going to feel the pinch as time goes on to make their practices cleaner. Both countries are going to need to diversify over time.

Looking likely our water quality is going to get worse.
Nicola has said the problem is for the Local authorities to sort.
They've failed in the past and now they are broke.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

Looking likely our water quality is going to get worse.
Nicola has said the problem is for the Local authorities to sort.
They've failed in the past and now they are broke.

Should the govt or our local council provide local water? Just a philosophical question?

I believe it should be local. Stormwater tracks across local streams, roads and parks. Pipes run through local reserves. Dams and reservoirs are on local land. 3 waters systems during construction is overseen by local council.

Water is a local issue, best dealt with locally isn’t it? You make improvements by demanding higher standards from the local authority.

If they are broke, they need to get back to basics instead of grand white elephants. Our govt is broke as well, if no one noticed!

 

[Noitall]

Looking likely our water quality is going to get worse.
Nicola has said the problem is for the Local authorities to sort.
They've failed in the past and now they are broke.

It’s going to be very interesting their plan for water reform, just more pass the buck politics that we sadly get right across the board. Fascinating that you’d see tax cuts better well spent than cleaning up shitty beaches because it’s a council issue.

 

[John Nick]

It’s going to be very interesting their plan for water reform, just more pass the buck politics that we sadly get right across the board. Fascinating that you’d see tax cuts better well spent than cleaning up shitty beaches because it’s a council issue.

Going to be a few broken toes with all the "kicking the can down the road ".
Disappointing for my grandkids and theirs

 

[MaybeTop8]

Should the govt or our local council provide local water? Just a philosophical question?

I believe it should be local. Stormwater tracks across local paths. Pipes run through local reserves. Dams and reservoirs are on local land. 3 waters systems in construction is overseen by local council.

Water is a local issue, best dealt with locally isn’t it? You make improvements by demanding higher standards of the local authority. If they are broke, they need to get back to basics instead of grand white elephants.

And how's that working out then Wiz? Oh that's right, it's not.

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

And how's that working out then Wiz? Oh that's right, it's not.

And you seriously think the govt will get things done any better? Why?

Only fix is more money spent… either council or govt has to stump up and either way it’s going to be paid by us through higher water bills.

Arguably council with a local workforce and knowing local conditions and overseeing the consenting will be better placed.

Philosophically, why doesn’t govt take over local roading, house consenting, local rubbish, etc as well? Why have councils. And why have regional councils?

 

[John Nick]

And how's that working out then Wiz? Oh that's right, it's not.

My point exactly

 

[MrFrankWhite]

And how's that working out then Wiz? Oh that's right, it's not.

Im a "left" voter but I think you have a misplaced faith in your faction. All politicians lie and people are stupid.... Govts arent any better than regional councils, often worse..

 

[Inruin]

Should the govt or our local council provide local water? Just a philosophical question?

I believe it should be local. Stormwater tracks across local paths. Pipes run through local reserves. Dams and reservoirs are on local land. 3 waters systems in construction is overseen by local council.

Water is a local issue, best dealt with locally isn’t it? You make improvements by demanding higher standards of the local authority. If they are broke, they need to get back to basics instead of grand white elephants.

In Auckland, watercare services are putting in something like $18billion over the next 18 years or so in to the infrastructure. They have a very good balance sheet but are linked to or restrained by Auckland Council debt and can't borrow more to invest more quickly. They don't pay a dividend to the council so not sure why they can't be used as a separate entity unaffected by overall council debt and therefore borrow within their means to invest more. Is that similar for other councils also?

Seperating them out from being restrained by council debt seems like an easier solution than a complete reform?

Or is that not a practical thing to do?

 

[wizard of Tauranga]

In Auckland, watercare services are putting in something like $18billion over the next 18 years or so in to the infrastructure. They have a very good balance sheet but are linked to or restrained by Auckland Council debt and can't borrow more to invest more quickly. They don't pay a dividend to the council so not sure why they can't be used as a separate entity unaffected by overall council debt and therefore borrow within their means to invest more. Is that similar for other councils also?

Seperating them out from being restrained by council debt seems like an easier solution than a complete reform?

Or is that not a practical thing to do?

You will probably find it’s tied back the other way and the council has borrowed against Watercare’s income so hard to unlink

 

[Inruin]

You will probably find it’s tied back the other way and the council has borrowed against the watercare income so hard to unlink

Good point, but if they don't pay any dividend can it still be borrowed against?

 

[John Nick]

Good point, but if they don't pay any dividend can it still be borrowed against?

In other words our water supply and sewage is fucked and not likely to get better.

 

[Noitall]

In other words our water supply and sewage is fucked and not likely to get better.

Though three waters was unpopular at least it was an acknowledgement that something does need to change. It’s like that old saying of expecting the same old practice with a different outcome insane.